How does oil analysis work?

[rblomquist]

I have a few thousand miles on the truck since I got it/changed the oil and am curious about oil analysis vice just throwing out the stuff without knowing if it's bad or not. A few questions that I have are:



1. How do you get the oil to a lab i. e. drive the truck to a shop (like speedco) and let them obtain a sample or do you guys actually drain a specified amount into a container and "send it off"?



2. Do you replace the oil filter when you do an analysis?



3. What's it typically cost and how does a layperson know how to read the data i. e. what's a bad number of any particular item?



4. What mileage interval is a good place to start sampling?





ANY words of wisdom would be much appreciated from this newbie



Oh yeah, the truck has always been run with Delo and it has about 74k on it now.

 

[illflem]

First of all read this, it will give you a much good info that answers most of your questions http://www.ianr.unl.edu/pubs/farmpower/nf225.htm



Your questions

1) You drain the oil yourself into a mailing container that most analysis companies provide free. If you are draining all the oil you take the sample midway though the drain. If you are just taking a sample there are devices that suck the oil up though the dip stick tube. Another way is some add on by-pass filters have a valve for taking a sample while the engine is running, or you can add a small valve and tube to the port on top of your oil filter to draw a sample. Most analysis companies will provide guidelines to avoid contamination.



2) You should replace the filter at the same interval you would if following the recommended service schedule even if you are running the oil longer.



3) Analysis typically runs $12-$22. Most companies explain what the results mean and actions to correct any abnormalities.



4) It's good to start a baseline early on although I would personally suggest skipping the first oil change due to manufacturing debris skewing the results. Maybe start at 10k then sample every 5k until a trend develops then you can extend the intervals.



The other way to do it is just run Delo or any other good dino oil and change it at 3-5k intervals (longer on newer rigs) and skip the analysis. You may be changing the oil sooner than necessary but the low cost of dino oil certainly won't break you and your engine will still make it to 500k miles.

 

[athompson]

Originally posted by illflem



The other way to do it is just run Delo or any other good dino oil and change it at 3-5k intervals (longer on newer rigs) and skip the analysis. You may be changing the oil sooner than necessary but the low cost of dino oil certainly won't break you and your engine will still make it to 500k miles.

While I believe that oil analysis can be a very beneficial tool for determining the overall condition of the engine, I would be very hesitant to rely on it to determine when to change the oil. If the analysis comes back with abnormal results, it will definetly point to a problem, but it will also indicate that you should have already changed the oil.



I know that there are many members here that use synthetic oils and use the oil analysis to determine when to change it. I just think that this practice is pretty risky. Oil, even synthetic, is actually pretty cheap compared to the cost of a replacement engine.



I'm sure that someone will have an opposing view, but that's the beauty of this site. You get to hear all sides and make your own decision.

 

[Joe G.]

I service my truck every 5K since I do mostly highway driving. When I retire next year the milage interval will be shorter. As far as I can tell oil analysis is just to satisfy morbid curiosity. If you change oil at a regular interval what would you do if the analysis came back with a problem? Tear down the engine? Probably not, just worry.

 

[illflem]

You're right, the cost of an oil analysis is about the same as the oil if using a non-synthetic but I feel many folks here change their oil much too soon, like at 3500 miles. If they did an analysis at 5k and saw that the oil was still good to go it might change their wasteful ways. Using oil analysis to find out you went too long is only good for one test then you will hopefully have learned a lesson.

 

[rblomquist]

Went down the street to Cummins to pick up a Stratopore and saw their analysis drop off box and decided to ask the parts guy about it. Bottom line is I paid a $9 turn-key price so when I change the oil I'll just have to drop off the sample bottle and wait for the results. I figure that $9 is cheap enough to see what the dino juice looks like after 4k of use.



Thanks to everone for the insight on this topic and I may post the results to see what you guys think.

 

[C Schomer]

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it! I've been doing it for 15 years. You don't just suddenly get a bad report. The tests will show problems early and show a trend. The test reports show wear metals, contaminants and oil chemistry. You give the lab a means to contact you when you send your first sample. The lab will contact you immediately if there is a serious problem. Can any of you guys that don't believe in analysis (or don't know what you're talking about) say you can see problems at the earliest stages?? You must have a Ouiji board if you can! I guarantee analysis will show you slow degrading problems LONG before you have a clue. Craig

 

[Joe G.]

Maybe I'm ignorant and don't know what I'm talking about, but calling names and sarcasm is just obscuring the question. If I were to get my oil tested and received a bad report or a series of bad reports indicating a bad trend what should I do? I don't see where reports like that would change anything in my maintenance behavior: service every 5000 miles. I can certainly see why a fleet operator would do these tests, but I don't see the utility for a one truck non-commercial owner like me. I drive 'em 'til they drop and then if it's worth overhauling I do that. So I know degrading problems LONG before I have a clue. Now what?

 

[illflem]

Joe, besides the wear metals oil tests detect levels of coolant, fuel and soot in your oil which can alter the oil's chemistry, lube qualities and life. Problems of this sort are hard to detect on your dipstick or in the drain pan and can be corrected before damage occurs.

As some oil labs say in their hype, Oil analysis doesn't cost, it pays.



But I must also add that if I didn't have free access to analysis at the labs at work I'd probably just change my dino oil every 5k and not worry about it.

 

[Joe G.]

I completely understand that. I don't have access to free oil analysis. I also don't feel comfortable with extended oil changes in the first place. It's easy to tell when an engine needs major work. It smokes, hard to start, uses oil, makes funny noises, and runs ratty. Until that happens I'm satisfied with regular service for my truck. Oil analysis would not change anything. If there were something I could do to respond to a report or series of reports of excess wear metals it would be different. Most people don't keep vehicles as long as I do. They trade them off in a few years. In that case, why spend money on oil analysis? IF I outlast this truck, I will eventually overhaul it. Usually that happens when opening the windows to relieve the smog in the cab makes it worse because the draft thru the holes in the floor results in more smoke (I had a '52 Dodge pickup like that).

 

[JPS]

oil samples

Been doing oil samples for years on most equipment. It will definitely give what I consider good info. From my understanding it is a comparison of your oil against a # of other samples. Not an individual check of your separate sample. jps

 

[E7mack96]

My analysis shows my oils individual specs, and a comparison to the aveages as well.



I am able to go 10,000 on dino oil because of analysis. It costs $17. 00 to get sampled, but if I was changing at 5,000 I would spend more than $17. 00. for the extra oil change.



Analysis Pays!!

 

[Joe G.]

What prompts you to change your oil at 10,000? Analysis results showing accumulation of wear materials? Lube quality break down? Oil additive package MIA? Some other factor?

 

[E7mack96]

Joe, I started out at a 5,000 mile interval and, based on the reports, I was able to keep extending the interval each time.



This last report was based on 10,668 Miles and Blackstone says I can go even further.



This is the list of metals ( Blackstone says I am beating the "average" levels that are based on 6,913 miles)



Aluminum --- 3

Chromium --- 2

Iron ---- 30

Copper --- 3

Lead ---- 4

Tin --- 0

Moly --- 1

Nickel ---- 0

Manganese --- 1

Silver --- 0

Titanium --- 0

Potassium --- 0

Boron ----- 4

Silicon ---- 4 ( this is with a K & N filter )

Sodium ------ 3









Based on over 10K miles on Rotella T 15w40, I am very happy with the results.



I will probably hold at close to 10 K intervals from here on out.



Walmart has Rotella 5w40 on sale for $12. 00 per gallon. I am considering buying it and seeing what happens from 10K to 20K intervals, but have not decided yet.

 

[DBVZ]

Someone above asked what would change if you start getting bad reports. One major issue would be the cost of the repair. I had a case where a report resuted in a dealing with a bad bearing before we lost a connecting rod. The difference is a couple hundred to fix as opposed to a few thousand $. And we did NOT see any smoke first. If the vehicle is still under warranty when you start getting bad reports, it might get a serious problem fixed by Dodge instead of a few months later entirely out of your pocket. As noted above, it also validates the decision to extend oil change intervals using synthetic oil, or using a bypass filter like the Amsoil.

 

[Joe G.]

DBVZ,



Was this bad bearing event in a fleet environment with a lot of miles on the engine? Was it a hard working engine?





E7mack96,



I did a bit of calculating of the savings if I were to double my change interval from 5k to 10k. Assumeing a sample taken at somewhere before the 10k mark. I put about 800 miles on my truck in a week when I'm working plus a little more just running around. The truck is not involved with my work, the miles are commute. So I normally do an oil change every six weeks. It costs me a little less than $23 to change oil. Delo 400 is now $32. 91 a case of six gallons at Costco. A Stratapore filter was $7. 60 the last time I bought a case at Redwood Alliance Peterbilt here in Eureka. So two oil changes cost about $46. If I were to get my oil tested instead of changed at 5k and change it at 10k the cost would be $17 + $23 or $40. That's a savings of $6 spread over 12 weeks or 50 cents a week. After I retire later this year the weekly usage will drop drastically so the $6 savings would be spread over even a longer period.



I am thinking about the prevention of a catastrophic failure as described by DBVZ. The question here being "what are the chances of a failure like that for one of our trucks?" Even when I'm towing my travel trailer I'm not really working this engine hard.



I am also wondering about the experiences of hotshot haulers that work these trucks pretty hard. Do any use oil analysis? If so, has it resulted in early detection of a severe problem?



If I see a benefit in using oil analysis I will certainly do so. So far, I haven't seen that.

 

[E7mack96]

Joe, I Hot-Shot with my truck. I have put 5000 miles on it in a week before. Usually I don't put that many miles on it in a week. One big thing to think about is silicon from bad air filtration. You won't catch that without analysis. It will catch you when your engine need rings and the cylinders rehoned, or worse. Any engine is prone to a defect that will eventually cost big time. It won't matter if you drive it hard, or not. I have faith in the Cummins as far as long term life goes but, like insurance you hope you never need, I cover my bases.



I sample everything, transmissions, rear ends, hydraulics, engines, and whatever else may come my way.



Like someone else stated, with the reports, you will have a history of the pending failure. Hopefully, that would help in warranty issues (it has for me in the past with a Mack).



Then the cost/benefit ratio is greatly reduced.



Also, Resale value can be enhanced as well.



You can show them the reports, and they will see how well (or bad, I guess) the truck has held up.



Most people that purchase commercial equipment look for these reports. It reassures them that the engine/trans, ect. are not about to wear out.



Sorry for the long post, but I am sold on analysis.

 

[lmills]

Has anyone had an oil analysis come back showing "rapid wear", like high levels of metal, and been able to get the dealer to warranty engine before catastrophic failure? I mean, be my luck at 90,000 miles it would show something, but the dealer wouldn't believe the report and I would be stuck with a ticking time bomb.

 

[Joe G.]

E7mack96,



If I were using my truck commercially I would probably use oil analysis. However, I'm not. I will be 65 this year and will retire. After that I won't be putting nearly as many miles on it as I have. I also will probably not sell it. I bought this truck as my retirement tow and run around vehicle. If something breaks I will fix it. The only things on this truck I can't do are body work and stuff that requires special equipment like milling machines and front end alignment tools. I find it hard to justify oil analysis for non-commerciial use even if the owner plans to sell the vehicle in the future. The odds are stongly in favor of one of these trucks going from purchase to sale with nothing but minor problems even if poorly maintained. If a breakdown would stop a person's income then all preventive measures, including oil analysis, make a lot of sense.

 

[DBVZ]

The bad bearing caught by analysis was actually in a fire truck with a Detroit Series 60. I understand it was indicated as a result of the first oil analysis done, and the repair was under warranty. Assuming the damage would not have become obvious until the engine was out of warranty, that one event paid for the analysis for the life of that truck and about 10 others. I had a similar situation resulting from some rivets getting through the system to the crank case of a Cummins M11. In that case it was discovered by a magnetic drain plug at oil change. Again, the repair was under warranty. These engines are great but are not built perfectly, and early discovery of problems has got to be better than sitting on the side of the road somewhere.