Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) how much HP and torque to tow 14k ?

[GMichaels]

Just got my 97 4wd 4:10 5spd 3500 dually. Hooked up the trailer total load 10k and the truck towed fine. Added 4k for a total trailer/load weight of 14k and was not happy. here in western NY we don't have any big hills but inclines, was losing speed in 4th. feel like its close.



So the question how much HP/torque do I need to tow 14k up a hill in 4th without losing speed. I don't want to upgrade above what I need due to cost and fuel. My 93 3:55 5spd got 21mpg, I am just getting 15 with this truck and don't want it to drop much more.



will timing get the job done? or just go with new injectors? truck is stock will be adding instrumentation this week for base line.



suggestions?

 

[sfelts]

if you are looking for cheap. just go with a fule plate. I am running a #6 and love it. much cheaper than injectors. My truck is close to the same excp. for the trans and dules. I get 16. 8 un loaded, and 14-15 with a 11k lb 5th wheel on the highway drops whin pulling big hills and when my foot gets heavy.

Hope this helps

 

[Fred Swanson]

For the 5 speed, do a #11. And get some gauges for the baseline, too. Or you could slide your stock plate forward, after putting the gauges in.

 

[GMichaels]

Ya I forgot about the plate, will do so reading on that. Who would you recomend? would mpg roughly stay the same? and you think a #11 would be enough to tow 14k?

 

[JThomas]

I got a #8 plate, 31 # boost, a turbo back 4" exhaust, and tow a 14000# 5th wheel ok. Have a 5 speed and 4:10 gears. Does a good job, but that is really max. The exhaust pipe lowers the exhaust temp about 150 deg, and boost and exh temp gages a MUST. I can easily exceed 1200 deg if I don't downshift when really loaded going up a hill.



John Thomas

 

[Turbo Thom]

I guess we all have an opinion, so I'll give mine, a # 10 plate, 3K spring kit and gauges. I do have a set of honed 215 injectors and make 310 HP. I tow 15K and don't feel I need any more power than I have now. Just seems to get more smoke with more power. Smoke is not pretty on the fiver.



. . Preston. .

 

[GMichaels]

I looked at the peirs hp/torque for the given plates. I would think a number 10 plate would be more than enough. 115hp gain and a gain of 310 lbft of torque.



the big rigs tow 80k and have 1400lb ft torque so if you do the math total 20k at 770 should do the job. but sounds like not really. .

 

[RJPotts]

Semis are a different animal when it comes to towing. They have gearing on their side among a lot of other things. Some rigs have less torque than a 5. 9 cummins with a #10 plate and injectors have, then again... some have a whole h*ll of a lot more...

Like the old 379 Pete that busted my @ss in a drag race with a drop neck lo' boy attached. I'd call a CAT 3512 "Quad turbo" cheating though. 1750bhp dyno certified. But I digress.

I'd say to tow 14K on a budget, get a #10 plate and a 3KGSK and drive it. Maybe an OFE too, just one less thing to worry about.

Remember to take care of the KDP immediately. And take care of the 5th gear nut too.

-R. J.

 

[Champane Flight]

#5

I have a #5 plate with four inch exhaust, I have no problem with temps unless I get wrapped up with foot on the floor. I have pulled most major passes now loaded with 10,000+ # and had to back out for the corners in almost every case. Most times you find a powerstroke in front of you poking along anyway :-laf , nothing you can do but wait for a extra lane to blow his doors off...

 

[Turbo Thom]

Remember, the higher numbers or generally for the straight shifts, where the lower one are for the automatics. I have an auto that I just took the plate out.



. . Preston. .

 

[hsmith]

I tow 14k empty fiver in fourth over, never lower than fourth. Have to watch the egt's. Mileage empty still 17+. Don't want to know what the rig would scale with all wife's goodies aboard.

 

[JJW_ND]

My 2 cents

Your truck without any new parts should pull well. I would make sure you are getting the most out of what you have before putting more parts in. Timing is a good thing to make sure it is at least 15 degrees... higher better lower not. It is very important that you are make the most of the boost and getting rid of the exhaust. Good fucntion air filter, no boost leaks (a boost gauge that reads 22 -24 under full power would be max for you truck and let you know you most likely don't have a leak). Make sure your exhaust is not causing any back presure. Clean out the cat (get a new one if you must keep it), or loose it. The rest is fine. A little gain loosing the stock muffler if like loud.



If you cruise at "western" speeds (70 -80) you are going to running pretty high rpms which will not help MPG. Slowing down the only help. You should get better then 15 empty even with your setup... 4:10 dually.



Most any upgrade in power that does not make alot of black smoke will NOT hurt your MPG. Nothing wrong with a puff as long as cleans up quickly.



I pulled hard and heavy the first 200K with the truck I have. You will have the least break downs and drivetrain issues if you keep HP under 325 to the wheels. No clutch upgrades, trans issues, turbo upgrades... . if driven sensable.



Your truck will respond very aggressively to plates. With just a #11 you can make 325 to the wheels. I would start with a #11 and get from a vendor that will alow you to upgrade so if not satisfied move to a #10. (I would suggest #10 in every truck except for 96+ 5sp that pull and only want alittle more power).



You injectors assuming they are function fine are more then adequate and will give you the best MPG as you increase power. Larger injectors are always makeing power, a plate that runs to strong can always be moved back to tune it down.



You might find that getting everthing working optimally with your stock truck AND..... turning the AFC turn richer (to your smoke tollerance), stock plate slid slighly forward (not full forward) and maybe just 3GSK will give a decent pulling machince with very little investment.



jjw

ND

 

[McCRam]

I did as JJW said and got my truck running as best as it could. I made a plate that resembles a #10 and installed a 4in exhaust. I can pull that kind of weight at 65 mph without working the truck to hard. I run into egt problems before anything else.

One thing about adding power to your truck. If you use that extra power your mpg will drop. I average about 18 empty, but if I'm pulling some cattle around It will drink fuel at 10mpg.

 

[pwerwagn]

I used to pull 18K regularly with mine...

I have the same pump as you, and I was running a #11 plate slid about . 020 foward from center. I also have a scotty II intake, but I was still running everything else stock at that time (other than a walker 3" muffler. . stock 3" exhaust otherwise).

Mine would pull 18K up hills pretty good in 4th. I couldnt use 5th unless I was running over 65mph. below 65mph, EGT's would get toasty in 5th.

--Jeff

 

[GMichaels]

might have a problem

Seems from the replies and some local discussion something might be wrong with my truck. I see people are pulling 17-18k with out mods and they have 3:55.



So I will begin to try and find what the problem might be. truck seems to run fine, but have noticed there is little or no smoke on hard throttle unloaded, so might be a fuel issue. will be replacing filters as a first step, then checking boost for leaks. after that not sure. checked the pump it is still stock as the tamper screw is still there. only getting 15mpg which seems low but that contradicks the no smoke. .



If anyone has troubleshooting suggestions please forward.

 

[Willys]

The fuel shutoff solenoid could be out of adjustment, and/or the fuel pressure could be low(bad overflow valve or lift pump... or bad hoses-air leak?), throttle linkage out of adjustment?



Does it run rough when you first start it?



Just do a search on these things and you'll have plenty of information on adjustments/diagnostics. Hope this helps...

 

[GMichaels]

runs rough on start

Yes the truck run very rough and smokes on start up but only for 10/15 seconds then smooths out and smoke goes away. So I will do some reading on this.



greg

 

[hsmith]

Mine has never done better than 19 or so, even when stock. Pulling with mods is a little better than stock, probably because it takes less pedal now. Do have to watch the egt's also.

 

[Neibe]

A set of gauges would help diagnose a problem maybe your not making enough boost like from a leak. Before I tweaked my truck when hitting a hill if I didn't get my foot into just before the bottom of the hill my boost would climb real slow. But since the tweak my boost will rise pretty fast on any hill.

 

[LByington]

#11 plate

I run a #11 plate on my '97 5sp and it made a world of diff. on pulling my 5th wheel (13 K ). You need to be careful on going with to much power or you will slip the stock clutch,unless that is part of the upgrades also. I think it was TST that had a chart on plates that showed max. power that a stock trans. or clutch would hold at. Thats why I went with #11,I am still running my stock clutch. Hope this helps in some way. Good luck. Oo.

Larry