How to deal with a strike

[Champane Flight]

Mine

Dear Kobi, Please think on what you just said. Do you really think that corporations out there through the ages would give employees what they have now without any intervention from a Union of employees? If there were no unions, you would still be working for a dollar a day, owe all your wages to a company store, be working in unsafe conditions, and be locked into the same job for the rest of your life. This history is not in the distant past, it is less than a hundred years ago.



The bad employee myth, and the poor company not being able to fire someone is bull in its highest form. In most cases where the employer could not get rid of a bad employee it is usually the employers fault. They do not supervise properly by not documenting bad apples, therefore they lose cases when trying to dismiss. I know employees who have worked for companys for twenty plus years and got fired because new supervisor didn't like them. Is this right?



And think of what you are teaching your children when you cross a picket line. You are teaching them it is OK to steal food off of another family's table! Thats what you are doing when you walk across that line. The people on that line are not out there for more wages all the time, sometimes it is something as simple as respect, or a safe working condition.



Everyone deserves a decent living, Union men and women are/have fought for that. They have the cohones to step out and risk everything for a point of honor and a better living. Yet, we have people out there who from some bent, jealous, perspective who would spit on them and cross for the quick buck. You are only hurting yourself in the long run, in a few years they will fire you and find some other smuck that will work for less! Remember, they did it before.....





Do you want to compete with foreign workers, who do not have cohones to stand up to employers? Be ready to make a dollar a day, and live on the job.

 

[ob1kobi]

You know back when people were making a dollar an hour, gas was what 3 cents a gallon? Everything was cheaper. That dollar went further then, than it does today. Prices didn't end up where they are today becuse of greedy companies. It goes full circle. You union wants more money, the company raise prices on there products to compensate and then everyone pays. So now everyone pays extra, so that you can get your raise.



If you want more money or better benefits, improve yourself and find a job that offers that. Just getting a bunch of people together and threatening everybody if they don't join up, isn't the way it is done anymore. Unions had there day, now it's over.



You think you are teaching your children to steal, when you cross a picket line? You proving the Union mentality with that statement. Hope you spouse has a good job, and you don't have children with special needs.



How about this question, what happened to the steel industry? What about the mighty steel unions, are they protecting all the people that lost there jobs when that work went away? Unions drive the prices up so much that companies have no choice but to close down, or move the work away. The Union can't stop either of those from happening, and then who have they helped protect?



You union folk do what you think you need to do to protect yourselves and it is ok, but when the company does the same thing by outsourcing or hiring temp workers, it's a bad thing. Sounds like a double standard to me.

 

[jwilliams3]

"raise prices to pay wages"

If you believe that, you've got alot to learn.



Hey where was your truck made?? Probably Mexico right?



You must have purchased that truck alot cheaper since the labor cost was so high in the US and since it was assembled in Mexico Chrysler passed on the savings right?



Wrong. Truth of Corporate greed takes over at this point.

Alot of people that have these views of Labor Unions have no idea or have never worked for a large Corporation.



Truth is you paid the same price. The Corporation pocketed or wrote off the profit the way they felt appropriate.

And sure, the big "company" will blame the Union worker and make him or her a scapegoat time and time again, even though the "company" is making money hand over fist.



Companies make decisions to move work away for alot more reasons than labor costs.

Such reasons that are considered are local tax breaks, control or influence in local politics, environmental concerns, kickbacks, etc.

Or just pure profit, if they can have it made for 10 cents on the dollar in BFE (more profit, no savings passed on to the consumer)and pollute the hell out of the ground with no consequence then hey, why not move??



Quit blaming the Union worker, and believing the corporate lies.



--Justin

 

[ob1kobi]

Listen, there is no difference between corporate rumors, and Union propaganda. It is all BS.



You think the Union will discuss what the difference between a contract offered just before a strike was, and the contract that they settled on after you have walked the lines for weeks or months? No they won't. Why is that, ever thought about it. Maybe cause you haven't actually gained anything by walking, thats normally the truth.



Was my truck made in Mexico? Maybe. Why, none of us will ever know why, but we all have our own suspicions.



I am not blaming the union worker, but you need to listen to things other than your union propaganda.

 

[jwilliams3]

Kobi,

I do agree, listen to all sides of an argument. I am not into listening to propaganda.

I am as critical and objective with the Union I am a part of as the Company I work for.



You are just hearing my views on Union vs. Company.



Bad, Corrupt and useless unions are a whole different topic.

We all know there are crooks in every bunch that need to be dealt with, and too many times people are in political positions for personal gains.



Alot of the "stuff" I have talked about in previous posts was not gained or learned from union propaganda but observed in real life.



--Justin

 

[ob1kobi]

Justin,



Great post! I think you captured it perfectly.

 

[Champane Flight]

Truth is

The truth is, that when a negotiation is done, if sucessful, both sides feel as if they got nothing.

 

[FATCAT]

Re: Cross at your own risk!

Originally posted by Champane Flight

If you decide to cross a picket line or take the job of a Union worker on strike, then you better be prepared to get your behind busted. ... . I would rather see another Hoffa style Union, bust some heads, then they would think twice about crossing the picket line.

DumbA$$ Goon mentality. So its OK to beat people up because they want to go to work and make money for their family. What a philosophy ... the perfect labor union stooge philosophy.



"... I don't give a hoot how hungry I am, or my family is... " you truly are a brainwashed buffoon.

 

[Champane Flight]

When you

When you cross a picketline you are stealing from their family and deserve what you get. The line goes both ways. Ethical behavior is not being brainwashed, just a difference between right and wrong. You have to get out from under the bosses desk to see the light!

 

[Morphious]

ethics go both ways, is it ethical to walkout and not expect to be replaced by someone willing to work for what you are not?



Morph.

 

[Champane Flight]

Willing?

Are you are ready to cut someone elses throat, work for less and less, under unsafe work conditions, for employers who care less about you than a dog? This is a question of, "How low can you go?" Not ethics, I suppose.

 

[Morphious]

never been union, never will. I've worked my way up the food chain by out performing even the most senior of developers. The only reason I'm working for less than I have in the past is the location that I'm living, not much work for what I do, and due to my children being here, I'm making the best of it. Now that by no means that I'm not making the most out of the money situation that I can, I'm one of the highest paid developers here, with less education than most, but I more than make up for it in skill and drive.



By the way, I had noone offering my anything to move me up, I worked my way through what college I have (around 130 credit hours with an AS), and taught myself how to write software and fix computers on my own. So you can't say that unions are the only way to provide steping stones to move up in life. Opportunities are out there, the mass majority of people just need to get off thier lazy asses and learn.



Morph.

 

[Champane Flight]

Same

I feel the same. If I have something that needs done, I pick up a book and learn how to do it myself. There are opportunity's galore out there, people just have not been trained to see them. Unions are there to keep large employers honest. I do not see them as the answer to the working mans plight, just a way to keep there bosses in line. Some need em, some don't.



I was Union for 15 years and can say it was not that pleasant. It was the people I worked with, not the Unions fault. A Union is only as strong as its members. If you have a company that knows how to whittle members away and replace them with scabs, the battle is lost, before it begins.



Most of the younger employees are farmers and Cowboys now, with anti-union stances. We are our own Union now, but with no International. All it is good for is to negotiate contracts every three years, no grievances have been filed. I just keep my mouth shut, do my job, and try to stay out of the spotlight. I only have four years to go for retirement. This is a young mans job with twelve to fifteen hour days, around the clock, weekends, and shoveling for days on end. The good thing is that I have a boss that is good to me, he respects the time and experience I hold. He comes to me with problems and in most cases takes my advice on safety issues. He also knows better than to try to give me credit for these decisions.



I still see the Unions as hero's. They have brought the common working man into a decent wage, benefits, and conditions. I will not cross a picket line. I was raised that way, my father, Uncle and many others were at Ludlow.

 

[ob1kobi]

When people cross the line, they are not stealing from anybody. You are not working and you are not on vacation. You have chose to walk a picket line, therefore the only thing you earn is strike pay, if you are lucky enough to be in a Union that offeres such. You have not done any work that warrants a paycheck from your employer. The person that crossed the line did earn a paycheck. He did not earn your paycheck, he earned his paycheck. You call that stealing? What exactly has he stolen of yours?

 

[Kalaehina]

Okay, update on my situation and feelings against this union. First off, I have all but lost any hint, smidgen, hair, whatever of respect for our union president, he has called our Mayor a liar, management liars and the media liars (he is partially correct with the media), but on yesterdays news he out right lied and I have had it with this moron, he implied that my division would not be tampered with and they would be left to do their duty and take care of the sick and elderly, not harrassed by the picketers and striking employees. Well gentlemen every damn day this week that I have gone to work because we were also told by our union we would be allowed to carry on, myself and my mechanics have been harrassed and challenged to a fight. I know this tactic of provocation and am not falling for it, but it is getting out of hand when one of these jerks is starting to target our secretary who is not a union member but a management. I do not give a rats right nut about these members ( I do have respect for a few who I see as genuinely honest members and leaders of our union that have earned my respect), I am on the verge of doing something stupid, in Hawaii we are unfortunately raised to fight first beat the hell out of any one that even makes eye contact with you ( yes a stupid mentality that so many people who grow up here have), you are taught to think you can lick the world, and I am not proud of this and have tried to change my train of thought but now I am allowing it to take over my sense of reason. I HAVE HAD IT! If this is the legendary strike wars I have heard about I eagerly await the day when one of these strikers touch me, because I am ready to write a new chapter in their history book. I admit, I am a young man, not trained or familiar in the ways of the Teamsters style of thought and procedures, maybe through my own fault for not learning as much as I could about the purpose and ways of unions, but you know what, right now I do not care. It has gotten to the point where mechanics are carrying around knives and machetes, I carry a can of brake kleen. Hey I gave them their respect in the begining, they said they would allow us to work, then they seemed to trap us by their own words, they asked us to support them, some of us did, that still wasn't enough! Couldn't just let it go, had to drag in our poor customers, had to put their lives at stake, if we can't work our vans will slowly go down and then drivers won't be able to pick anyone up, THEN, UNION!, People will start to die!, plain and simple, they will each begin to die! But they still see it fit to use lives as pawns to get what they want, well no one is going to use my aunty as a freakin pawn, no one! Sorry guys, this is my vent session that I seriously need, I hope you all understand. Thanks

 

[tcb]

make sure you and your guys get together to back each other up. the other side will. be prepared, be careful. you are doing good work for the community, you are on the side of the rightous.

 

[Shovelhead]

Originally posted by tcb

make sure you and your guys get together to back each other up. the other side will. be prepared, be careful.

And that's how & why unions are formed.







There will be no winner or loser at the end of this thread.



There are two sides to this discussion, and there will always be some disageement between the Management & Labor sides of the coin.





From the movie "The Outlaw Jose Wales"

Don't whizz down my neck and tell me it's rainin'

 

[Champane Flight]

Get em together

Kal, I know the Island mentality having been raised there as a boy. You need to get your guys together and go out to the picketline on off duty. Explain to them what is going on and how it has to stop. Does it look like the company is going to talk to them or is a lock-out situation? Man, I have seen companys do this on purpose to seperate a workforce, sounds like it is working. Tell your Union leader that you are not going across the line until he can guarantee your safety, tell the company the same. Inform the news media of the infirms plight, it may put pressure on the company to get negotiations moving. If you start busting heads now, it will never stop. There will be more tribal wars... .

 

[ob1kobi]

Don't waste your time talking to the Union. Telling them that your not going to cross until they gurantee your safety, is just a waste of time. They don't want you to cross, therefore even if they say they will gurantee your safety, they won't. Your company needs to step up and provide security, or ask for the police to be there, it is there job to protect you, not the Unions.



Taking it to the media won't work either, the Union will deny it and say they are just rogue members that are acting out on there own. The Union can't show there true colors to the media or they will the support of the general public who only know that people are out of work cause some big bad company doesn't give them what they want.



Do not kill anybody though, it isn't worth it. Don't resort to there misguided tactics. You will get caught and spend the rest of your life behind bars. Self defense, do what you need to do to protect yourself, and no more. Sad part is afterwards, these people that are trying to hurt you now, will be your best friends after this is all over. That Union mentality doesn't cut it these days, it's a different world out there now.



If you have the chance to have a real discussion with one of the members, ask them to explain to you what it is they are even striking for. Odds are that they won't even know.

 

[Shovelhead]

And then again, there are many of us that do.



The propaganda flows from both sides of the :-{}



Ted,

My father spend many years in your position (and higher) with the same company that we have now become.



I've truely seen both sides, and been offered a position "on the other side",..... I'm still a Union Member.