Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) How to tell if KDP neutered?

[Coalsmoke]

Hi,

I just bought a 95 2500 last month, with about 195kmiles on it. It came from an auction of which a dealer bought it and then I bought it, so I have no info about past repairs and such. Assuming that I won't ever find the owner (Lyle and Sas of Pickard Creek [I found this much out because there used to be decals on the side of the truck]). I would really like to find out if the KDP has been done, is there anything to look for that might help me (aside from pulling off the timing cover, as I've been told by piers that the new gaskets alone would cost me $150? (seemed a bit high). I looked for a screw / bolt like the one the jig uses, and I didn't find it, but I did notice that there was a 3/4" wide circle sort of built/etched into the side of the timing/cam gear case, right where the screw would be for a KDP jig. It almost looks like it was a hole drilled in the side and then filled with a machined plug. Is this normal or is there more than meets the eye?



many TIA,

Stephan

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

It shouldn't cost you more than 65 bucks for a new crankshaft seal and gear cover gasket. If you cant locate the previous owner to find out for sure ,you should take care of it. . If the front seal is leaking go ahead and change the seal and tab it while the cover is off. . If the seal is still good,see if you can locate a jig and save you a little work.

 

[Joe G.]

The seal kit and gasket at Dodge should total about $60 US. You can use some sort of gasket maker goop for the gasket. The seak kit is about $35 US or so. Maybe cheaper at a parts store or Cummins.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Something up front is leaking. I thought that maybe it would be the gear cover gasket, but maybe it is the crankshaft seal. With this in mind, I guess I should go ahead and do the tab method. I plan on making my own tab, is this ok, or is there something special about the pre-fabbed tabs.

 

[Joe G.]

Everybody made their own tab at first. TSTProducts is now selling a kit with a tab, seal kit, and instructions. If you would like a copy of my instructions with the size and shape of the tab, e-mail me.

 

[MLee]

Do The Tab

Coalsmoke;

do a search and you can find more info on doing this procedure than you will ever want to know. there is a longer bolt you will want to use with the tab also. I believe that it is a # 8x1. 25x25 make sure that it is a 10. 8 hardness. KEEP TRACK OF WERE THE BOLTS GO BACK TO. they are different lengths and a couple of them have a different configuration. Don't be misled by the torque numbers. 18' lbs, is not much beyond finger tight, so they may feel like they are loose. I lock titted all mine. but they all felt tight.

The TST kit, i believe comes with Decals to put on the engine to show that the repair was done. Just make note on the engine that it was done, some how. i used a paint marker on the cover with the date.

just my penny's worth.

Marv.

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

Something up front is leaking

Ominous words when talking about your KDP. Better clean that puppy up and see just what is leaking.

 

[Coalsmoke]

I've scratched around looking for cracks in the specific problem areas, mainly under the idler, and everything seems to be ok. I think it has something to do with the fact that the previous owner didn't replace bolts as they fell out and 1/3 of them on the front cover are missing Can I get these just about anywhere, any suggestions on where to get a handfull of them?

 

[Joe G.]

There are two sizes. Long and short. You can't get them mixed up because the short ones won't reach the threads in the long holes and the long ones won't screw in all the way in the short holes. There are also two special ones that hold the tach sensor. Probably have to get them from Cummins or Dodge. You might try a local big rig shop. I would take a sample of each size to a big rig shop.

 

[gcorron]

You also don't need to worry about a longer bolt if you use the tab from Cummins. It is a very thin piece of stainless sheet metal.

Cummins #'s and what I paid6 months ago.

Washer - 3958017 . 92

Cover gasket - 3918673 - 19. 16

Oil Seal - 3804899 - 26. 72



Mine's a 97. I don't know about the gaskets and seals, but can't imagine the tab being different.



Good Luck.

 

[BudW]

Coalsmoke, I have done the KDP Jig on my ’94, and it looked like

I looked for a screw / bolt like the one the jig uses, and I didn't find it, but I did notice that there was a 3/4" wide circle sort of built/etched into the side of the timing/cam gear case, right where the screw would be for a KDP jig. It almost looks like it was a hole drilled in the side and then filled with a machined plug. Is this normal or is there more than meets the eye?

once done. It sounds like it has been done.



Now, I have a pretty good oil leak on my new (to me) ’97.

I’m afraid to look under the fan to look for cracks, but could be a reason it was for a very good price.



Bud

 

[Coalsmoke]

Well, the saga continues. I took off the belt and further inspected under the idler and there are definitely no cracks Oo. but this plug looks factory? BudW, you mentioned that when you had this done, it looks the same on yours. Do you know if they used a set screw/bolt or a plug? Would you be able to take a picture of it for me? Mine really looks like it is supposed to be there from cummins.



Does anyone know what the dealer remedy for this is? Do they have their own special plug, or is it all tab? Also, the front of my valve cover has a big white "X" painted on it, does this mean anything to anyone.

 

[Coalsmoke]

never mind, I was lokking n the wrong place. Now I see that I have to get some stuff out of the way before I can look for cracks. The research continues.









Later:



Apparently some oil is coming from behind the fan pulley. Maybe the X means death, as in killer, as in I'm dead with the KDP. Oh well, at least it isn't much leaking. Next oil change I'll put a magnet in the oil pan and see if I can find the pin. There's no way I could afford the parts for a KDP fix... . poor truck. It's just spent the last 200,000 miles hauling and then it get's pawned off on someone who can't afford the fix. :{

 

[Joe G.]

If you can do the work yourself the cost for parts is not too bad. The job is a LOT of work: http://www.flex.net/~triplem/new/dowelpin.htm

 

[illflem]

If the crack isn't too bad J-B Weld may take care of it for quite some time

 

[BudW]

Coalsmoke,

Sorry, I can’t take a picture of my fixed KDP cover. My ‘94 got into a fight with a bridge a couple months ago, and the bridge won, big time. Its replacement, my ’97, has not been done yet.



I forgot what it looked like for sure, but as memory serves me, it was a countersunk hole drilled into the aluminum timing cover under the fan bracket/pulley, which had an allen-head flathead machine screw put in. I think I countersunk my hole more than I needed so you could tell, but it was covered up.



I had a rather difficult time getting my fan off, to check. I finally got it off, to stay for the winter, now I can check for cracks now, whenever I get a chance.



Bud

 

[illflem]

With just the fan off you still can't see the area kdp damage takes place, you need to remove the fan pulley.

 

[BudW]

Bill,

You got me there.



I think the question was if you can tell if the KDP had been neutered or not? I don’t think anyone can tell if it had been tabbed without disassembly but if it had been pinned using the external KDP kits, you should be able to.



If you have cracks or other damage, I think that is another issue.

I couldn’t get my fan/clutch off of the clutch hub, for the longest time, which I needed to do go get the pulley/bracket off, to check further. Actually, I had the same problem (getting fan off) with my ’94 as well. I think it was the first time to be off for both vehicles.



Bud

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks guys. I think I might do the JB weld for the meantime as it's leaking very slowly. I'll hopefully have good funds come summertime. What about actually arc-welding the case. Does anyone know if it is an aluminum magniesium alloy? I can and will do the work myself, but I thought that the cover alone cost over $1000? Is this incorrect, please straighten this out



Sorry to hear about the bridge Bud. They always put them in stupid locations (seriously though, the ones in the backcountry around here are only wide enough for 1 1/2 vehicles, and every once in a while you'll almost get taken out because someone enters the other end a full speed and doesn't realize they won't fit until the last second. Gotta get me some air horns, would give the "train coming at you down the trestle" effect