Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) HTT and 275's, Towing EGT's still too high!

[cArNiVaLwOrKeR]

X3!!

very nice!!

 

[icman95]

I wouldn't discount the use of an air filter setup so soon. More air in is always better. Try putting a pillow over your face and running a mile (this is stock setup). Now try putting an oxygen mask over your face instead and run the same mile (this is performance air filter). Which one will help you out more?



As far as "noisy", that depends upon you definition of noise. Yes, they are louder, but it lets me hear the turbo sing-and what a beautiful voice it has! At first I thought my wife would hate the extra sound on long trips, but to my surprise, she likes it.



Take that with a grain of salt, however. When I was at the dealer test driving these things many years ago, I told the salesman that I couldn't really hear the (then stock) turbo. He was all proud of that and mentioned about how quiet the truck was. I told him I was UPSET that I couldn't hear the turbo better-this confused him.



The following link is the the page on Geno's where you can find the same setup I'm using. While not cheap, it's nowhere near $450. It says $267.

aFe - AIR INTAKE SYSTEM - STAGE 1 ('94-'02) DODGE-Dodge Cummins and Ford Power Stroke Diesel Truck Accessories - Geno's Garage



One more thought:

When approaching a hill, anticipate it. Try to look ahead and get a good running start before going up it. This will let you hit the bottom of the hill with enough interia/momentum to carry up it so that the engine has to do less work. You'll find that you are able to hold a steadier speed up the hill and your egts will be less.



Good luck.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Good point, icman95. When encountering a grade while towing with cruise on I push down slightly on the go pedal to increase boost (the amount depends on load, % and length of grade, wind, etc. ) to mid-teens to 20ish which makes up for the lag in the cruise and also gives me the power needed to make the grade without the cruise giving the engine way to much fuel to catch back up to speed (which is way too easy with Smarty).

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[KLockliear]

What RPM are you trying to tow at?

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Keith,

Not sure who you are asking the question of. Blacksheep runs at 65 mph which with 6 speed and 3. 54 is what, 1800, 1850 rpms? I know it sound kinda low but with Smarty and RV275's it works great since boost comes on so quickly. Egt's towing are 800 or 900, sometimes 1000, depending on headwind, terrain, load. My cruise control lags quite a bit because I had to "adjust" the vacuum so the cruise wouldn't surge while on level ground which is why I give "pre-boost" when approaching a grade.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

JAndrus,

Are your tires stock height or are they taller?

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[JAndrus]

Trent,

I run smaller LT 235/85 Coopers, still lots of tread. I tow at 2000-2100 rpm and 63 mph. EGT on level is 1000-1200 at 5-6,000 feet. A little push on the throttle to speed up for a hill is 1300...

OK icman take the pillow off your head, I'm ordering a "cold air" box intake before investing in an intercooler. If I can install injectors and a turbo I should be able to handle that!

Thanks Jeff

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Jeff,

I know for me Smarty makes the turbo spool very quick and keeps the egt's way down. Have you tried one?

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[JAndrus]

Trent,

I don't know what a Smarty is. Is it a boost fooler? Will it work with an Edge EZ module?

Thanks , Jeff

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Jeff,

Smarty is a downloader with several softwares to choose from. It is available from several diesel shops including Dynomite Diesel Products. I think you can try it 30 days for free before deciding.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[icman95]

Trent,

I run smaller LT 235/85 Coopers, still lots of tread. I tow at 2000-2100 rpm and 63 mph. EGT on level is 1000-1200 at 5-6,000 feet. A little push on the throttle to speed up for a hill is 1300...

OK icman take the pillow off your head, I'm ordering a "cold air" box intake before investing in an intercooler. If I can install injectors and a turbo I should be able to handle that!

Thanks Jeff

You're a better man than I. I did my turbo install myself, but had a mechanic do the injectors for me. I figured I didn't have the time, patience, or possibly skill/tools to do them. They guy who installed my injectors was the one who convinced me of the air filter set up. He said most people who bring him their trucks for injectors already have the filters installed to accommodate the extra fuel. I didn't and he put one in at the same time as the injectore-he just happened to have one laying around on the shelf.



By the way, I use a Smarty, too. Among the 10 different programs it has, some of them add more injection timing, which seems to lower egts a bit (say 100*, maybe). Setting 3 on the Smarty programmer is a towing setting giving a bit more power and timing, while setting 9 is all out power for really romping on it when not towing. I love mine and most people I've talked to about it do too. Problem is they're not cheap-$650.





Good luck.

 

[PC12Driver]

I always cringe when I see a suggestion to add fuel to help light off a larger turbo when it comes to towing. If you're actually using the extra fuel, it'll make a difference. Like accelerating from a dead stop, aggressive passing, or really hammering to get up a hill. But for normal cruising (level or rolling hills), you'll see no difference, since you're still using the same amount of fuel as you did before (which is probably less than stock in most cases). Like I've found, and AClayton posted above, higher temps at cruise are the nature of the beast when it comes to larger turbos. By going to the bigger compressor wheel, you've essentially shifted your powerband up a few hundred RPM. If you add to the top, you're gonna take from the bottom. Adding fuel won't help in this case.



Since Jeff already has an EZ, he's already getting the benefits of timing advance, so switching to a Smarty wouldn't gain him much from that, either.



An intercooler will do the most good when the temperature differential is the greatest, which is at high boost numbers. Since there isn't much temp rise in the intake during cruise, you probably won't see much difference. I'd save the $1,300.



And I'd hate to say it, but I don't think he's going to see much difference from the stage 1 intake in those conditions either. I didn't when I went from a drop-in K&N to the stage 1. If I were to do it again I'd probably go by the test results in the previous TDR magazine and just drop in a good quality filter in the stock airbox and continue to take advantage of the cold air. The stage 1 will flow better, but it is sucking hot underhood air. With a trailer on and the exhaust manifold, turbine, and radiator cookin', the temperature difference between inside and outside air is going to be huge. The article proved that the drop-in filter had the advantage on the test truck, which was over 400hp. Not a huge difference, but it had a few more hp, plus the benefits of having an enclosed filter.



Long story short: the larger-than-stock compressor in the turbo is causing the higher cruise temps, and there really isn't anything you can add on that will help a significant amount with egt reduction in cruise. Like AClayton says, keep the rpms up to drive the bigger compressor and the temps will come down.



Or if you have a spare $3k, hanging a second turbo under your hybrid would solve the problem nicely...

 

[AClayton]

I encountered the heat issues and tried to do as much as possible to get the egt's down while cruising. The IC upgrade is nice to put in your sig but at cruising rpm,I did not notice a $1300. 00 investment like I thought I should. I did ,however,notice the improved flow from removing the restrictions in the stock IC. Less restriction = quicker spool-up. Floor boarding the Cummins or when towing heavy up grades with long,long inclines is where the IC will help the most. IMO,it is a toss-up... .comes down to a want or need thing. I don't regret installing mine... . but I also didn't get a $1300 return on my investment - with the low weight that I tow at 19K { compared to others advertised GCW ratings }



Alan

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Perhaps the best solution is to put the stock turbo back on and try a Smarty for 30 days free and see how that combo works. The only difference between Jeff's truck and mine is the 4. 10 rears (higher rpm's at 5000' is a good thing) and 4x4 (which is a negligible difference) and the EZ vs. my Smarty. If you enjoy the combo then sell the hybrid to cover the Smarty cost.

I really think you will be much happier with this combo.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[PC12Driver]

Perhaps the best solution is to put the stock turbo back on...

That's solid advice. The stock HX35/12 is probably the best match for towing with 275s and an EZ. It's easily good for 350hp (when you keep the boost under 35psi) and will certainly run cooler at cruise. For some reason I had it in my mind that his hybrid was an HTT upgrade, and that it was his stock turbo and couldn't go back.



That would certainly be a better choice at his HP than my twins suggestion above.

 

[KLockliear]

Trent,

I run smaller LT 235/85 Coopers, still lots of tread. I tow at 2000-2100 rpm and 63 mph. EGT on level is 1000-1200 at 5-6,000 feet. A little push on the throttle to speed up for a hill is 1300...

Airbox may help a little, but have you tried towing a little faster? I know it doesn't sound logical, but the extra RPM means more boost and more air through the motor at a given HP level. I tow in the 2200-2500rpm range normally (65-72mph) with 3. 54's, 5th gear in 6spd and 35's.

 

[Chief USA]

I recently installed a BHAF with Outware prefilter along with a heat shield to replace an aFe Pro Dry S drop in filter. The BHAF set up eliminated nearly all of the turbo lag save a half second and my EGT's dropped 100 degrees across the board with even more at low boost conditions as well a gaining an extra 2 lbs. of boost. The only way to fly in my opinion. Best bang for the buck with respect to air filter systems.



See my post on installing the BHAF and heat shield:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...sion-discussions/204302-heat-shield-bhaf.html

 

[Turboman]

I have a similar setup, and about 5000-6000 ft is where I have to drive by the EGT guage. This not usually a problem since my water temp gives me more trouble when I tow at high elev. Yes I've cleaned the rad and the IC. Do any of you guys have a water temp problem. Ex. The other day, Wolf Creek Pass, CO west side, 30 mph, 3rd gear, 2200 rpm or so, 20# boost, 1000* or less, water temp 220*+. The truck don't even know its working hard. The fiver weighs about 12k. I'm losing my cool here!

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Turboman,

If you have the 195* thermostat replace it with the 180*. Helped me some.

Also, is the cooling system clean, meaning the radiator does not need boiled out?

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[PRout]

I like my stock turbo with the silencer ring IN. Power right off the bottom. Almost no lag at all. After reading about this same scenario for years time after time, the only turbo upgrade I would possibly be interested in would be adding a 2nd one. Towing twins - keeping low and high rpm airflow. But am making it fine with stock, and dont need to be a snail either.

This is the same ol story, 10 different recommended solutions, all supposed to give higher mileage, and solve the problem, and almost ALL have a compromise to where you lose something (except for a snow water injection system for when the peak temps get up there??)

IMO, for a snappy running everyday driver, and towing, stock turbo is best in the long haul. Dump the restrictive muffler, keep the resonator, go with an AFE or Amsoil Drop-in air filter, and keep the rpm's up around 2300 & downshift to go easy on the expensive drivetrain while towing. Just another opiniain. Take it for what its worth to you.

Bet that'll ruffle some feathers.

Added: Other than the turbo, it looks like you are setup pretty well from reading your sig. Just running pretty heavy. Lots of work for that drivetrain and high #6 cylinder temps.