Competition Hydrogen Peroxide with Snow Performance BoostCooler

[JoshThomas]

"The use of H2O2 as a propellant takes advantage of the decomposition of 70-98+% concentration hydrogen peroxide into steam and oxygen. The propellant is pumped into a reaction chamber where usually a metal (esp. silver or platinum) catalyst triggers decomposition, and the oxygen/steam that is produced is hot enough (>600 °C) either to be used directly or to combust a fuel. As a monopropellant (not mixed with fuel), it produces a maximum specific impulse (Isp) of 161 s (1. 6 kN·s/kg), which makes it a low-performance monopropellant. The famous Bell Rocket Belt used hydrogen peroxide monopropellant. When decomposed to burn a fuel as an oxidizer, specific impulses as high as 350 s (3. 5 kN·s/kg) can be achieved, depending on the fuel. Peroxide was used very successfully as an oxidizer for the low-cost British launchers, Black Knight and Black Arrow.

Compared to hydrazine, peroxide is less toxic, but it is also much less powerful. Peroxide gives a slightly lower Isp than liquid oxygen, but is dense, storable, noncryogenic and can be more easily used to drive gas turbines to give high pressures. It also can be used for regenerative cooling of rocket engines. " From en. wikipedia.org

Any one thought of using it ?

 

[Amish Elegance]

Well when you put it that way... :-laf



Thats a heck of a first post. Welcome to the TDR!



Maybe I missed the exact point hidden in all those syllables, but... That seemed to be talking about use in rockets and turbines. I got that much anyway.



As far as I know, dont have one myself, the practical purpose of using water/meth, ie snow systems, is cooling the boost charge, and the added increase of combustibility from the meth. The combo effect is a more turbine friendly EGT.



Using Hydrogen Peroxide would only have the same affect as pure water in this regard. IMO.



To answer your original question, no.

What would be to gain by using it?

 

[Tinman]

I would think you'd be able to get enough O2 out of H2O2 to be of any benefit. It'd be a lot easier to get more boost.

 

[Dual EE]

When I was a teenager I worked at a VW shop. An old timer that worked there was using hydrogen peroxide in his gasoline motors. He stated that hydrogen peroxide had the extra oxygen molecule and gave better performance over plain water. With that said, I have yet to see or read here that anyone has ever tried it.

 

[Fletcher]

"The use of H2O2 as a propellant takes advantage of the decomposition of 70-98+% concentration hydrogen peroxide into steam and oxygen. The propellant is pumped into a reaction chamber where usually a metal (esp. silver or platinum) catalyst triggers decomposition, and the oxygen/steam that is produced is hot enough (>600 °C) either to be used directly or to combust a fuel. As a monopropellant (not mixed with fuel), it produces a maximum specific impulse (Isp) of 161 s (1. 6 kN·s/kg), which makes it a low-performance monopropellant. The famous Bell Rocket Belt used hydrogen peroxide monopropellant. When decomposed to burn a fuel as an oxidizer, specific impulses as high as 350 s (3. 5 kN·s/kg) can be achieved, depending on the fuel. Peroxide was used very successfully as an oxidizer for the low-cost British launchers, Black Knight and Black Arrow.

Compared to hydrazine, peroxide is less toxic, but it is also much less powerful. Peroxide gives a slightly lower Isp than liquid oxygen, but is dense, storable, noncryogenic and can be more easily used to drive gas turbines to give high pressures. It also can be used for regenerative cooling of rocket engines. " From en. wikipedia.org

Any one thought of using it ?

You forgot about the Kerosene... . got hypergolic?

 

[paulb]

Plus the hydrogen peroxide that you buy at the store is only a 2% mix, if I remember right. In a pure form, as fletcher mentioned, you could have a stability problem...

 

[NoSeeUm]

Plus the hydrogen peroxide that you buy at the store is only a 2% mix, if I remember right. In a pure form, as fletcher mentioned, you could have a stability problem...

LOL



I have experience using 25% Peroxide. It gives your skin (respiratory tissue / eyes) this nice white color right before it starts burning like hell. Anything much more than that mixed with about any organic compound (or diesel fuel) can you say Flame On.



I also have some experience using Hydrazine and that stuff can be very bad, in concentrated form. It likes to go to a vapor, more so with increasing temperature. These days "I just say No" to Hydrazine.



Jim

 

[JCutter]

I asked this question over in the cummins forum a little while back.



I think it would work great with the snow system i just dont have one or i would have tried it. ( I might real soon after finding out how much it is to fill a bottle of nitrus)



Store bought is 3% i believe and if memory serves me correctly taxi dermist use a 10% solution for cleaning bones.



I did get a post from somebody saying that they used it in pulling tractors before but had to run then for a while to clean it all out. (dont know why, it should evaporate quickly. )

 

[TURBOs4LIFE]

I have 50% H2o2 if anyone wants to try it.

 

[JCutter]

If i had a snow kit i would try it at IRP.

 

[JApol]

Anyone seen the discovery special on the Soviet Sub Kursk?

Hydrogen peroxide was the propellant for the torpedoes.

I rest my case.

 

[Turbo Thom]

And I thought JT was Fletcher, and then he posted. Can you believe it, two of um.





. . PrestonL. .

 

[Fletcher]

And I thought JT was Fletcher, and then he posted. Can you believe it, two of um.





. . PrestonL. .

I take my simple carbons to H18 very seriously :--)

 

[Amish Elegance]

Somebody catch me up. I know my first post was completely in left field. Chemistry is clearly not my thing.



How would this affect the combustion process? More 02? Ain't that why god made turbos?



I was thinking in terms of the drug store variety h202. What about cost for higher concentrations? Never purchased the stuff.

 

[Big MAK]

If you're playing with the concentrated stuff in the pits please put out a sign so the others of us can give you LOTS of room. I don't want to breath it when it goes to vapor...



As far as actually using it didn't it say it burned hotter? I think most folks using water/meth do so to cool things down and get more out of the fuel they're already putting in ... so no reason for another fuel source especially one that makes things hotter... imo . . from what it sounded like.

 

[Turbo Thom]

That ain't all. If you got nx in the pits, better give lots a room. I saw 2 blow in BG. The only cool place at the track.



. . PrestonL. .

 

[paulb]

I'm thinking H202 and a little bio-diesel, and they should post a sign at the gate! :-laf

 

[TURBOs4LIFE]

I would really like to know if it would work! Granted it would take a little work to be safe to use all the time. Lines and pumps would have to be prepped before introducing concentrated H2O2. Lines and pumps have to be cleaned of any contamination or H2O2 will rapidly decompose in the lines and that would be a bad thing! The holding tank would have to have a vent open to atmosphere at all times just in case it starts to decompose it has a way to vent pressure. I can get the stuff all the time so it wouldn't cost me much at all... ... If it worked.....

 

[Jong]

Chemically, peroxides are REALLY unstable... that's why they are usually in such low concentration commercially. In really high concentrations, like in torpedo fuel, they can become self-oxidizing, which is why they are so dangerous. If I was going to try it, I wouldn't use any more than 5% to start, 'cuz when it is added to heat and pressure, interesting things could happen.