i have the scoop on the lift pump problem

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

If anyone wants to install -8 lines without the expense of braided SS, there is an inexpensive alternative. You can get barbed brass fittings and quality 1/2" Aeroquip rubber fuel line hose. This will cost only about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the SS setup:

Aeroquip -8 barbed 90deg:
191321-8S

Aeroquip -8 barbed straight:
4797-8B

Both of those fittings are JIC universal (work with both 45 and 37 degree JIC, we use 37deg).

Diesel grade -8 AQP elastomer tube fuel line is PN FC234-08. It has a -40F-300F operating range.

Vaughn

 

[Brandon]

well apparently I can only do one thing at a time, articat, i missed something why 90's???? i am dumb right now. give me the direction and we will go, maybe this week I will try to look at the couple 8. 3l I see, orrrr this could be a job for beck, you see them alot more,

Beck find us a fuel filter
B

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Danelle's Dodge

 

[csutton7]

some update info---with these upgrades--ATS exhaust manifold, HX40, 4" Jardine exhaust EZ, DTT vb& 91%tc & 4:10 gears w/35" tires---12psi at WOT w/ overdrive off & w/ overdrive on 13psi is the lowest readings on the BG pump I got today--I think my first few readings that I got which were lower on the psi at WOT was probably due to the system getting itself primed, but who knows, today it kicked a$$ in the psi dept. --now if I can get those DDIII's & the PE we will see if this makes a psi diff--one other thing the psi at idle in park when warm is 15-17 psi and when I start it in the morning, 40-45*F, she fluctuates between 17-19 psi until the water temp raises---

if you leave your stock tank pickup line in and go to -08(as soon as possible--a 9" -06 line worked good for me & then to -08)-- to the pump and then -08 to the filter & -06 to the VP44 yes you're stressing your pump some but how much?? Yes you're defeating your purpose, but again how much?? If you're not going to increase the pickup line then -06 all the way is all you need to do-some pump stress, but do a separate return line to help keep the pump cool and to not backpressure the VP44---

if you increase the pickup tube to -08 then you'd be smart to put in a filter pre-pump and bypass the heater/filter completely and go to the VP44 with and -08 line with the Parker fitting setup or the new weber/-08 setup(should be under production shortly)--and if you want to retain your heater/filter well hang on why'll we try to come up with the solution----chris

 

[Sled Puller]

HEY!

I just saw this post, could someone post a new thread summing all this up so I don't have to read it all?
LOL
Thanks,Gene

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1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled. Amsoil Premiere Direct Jobber, Member of: NRA Business Alliance, GLTDR, WANTED: Wrecked Dodges.
www.awdist.com

 

[Mopar-muscle]

you guys are making me dizzy . #ad


ok heres what happened yesterday , i'll post a couple seperate threads as heads up for those interested in only my findings of late .

first , after a call with Bill K. he pointed me to the banjo restriction we talked about a few weeks ago . the banjos between the stock lift pump and the stock filter housing . i would like to meet the IDIOT at DC that speced this part ... this only pertains to 2000 and newer , EVERYONE owns one MUST remove this line .

there are 2 fittings , they are banjos with hose barbs with a small L shaped piece of 3/8ths line , i never looked in the hole the bolt goes thru because i assumed it looked like the others i looked at #ad
WRONG #ad
. the barb is 5/16 on the outside and the hole thru it is LESS that 3/16 ... thats less than . 187 being feed by a line that is . 312 id . when Bill drilled out this fitting to i think 9 /32 , thats about all you can do , he gained 2 psi pressure , all his banjo bolts are still stock . after i saw this yesterday i considered drilling them out , for about 30 seconds . tossed that useless piece of line in the can and replaced it with 2 weber -6an to 12mm adaptors and a length of areoquip 3/8 socketless hose and 2 straight -6 ends , cost was less than 20 bucks , actually alot less , more like 12, as massdiesel had the piece of line i needed , thanks scott.

ok , now to the gravy ... first my fuel pressure was a steady 11 psi at the injection pump , i see a little over 1 psi more cruising at 70 - 75 mph , thats 9 psi , wide open PE off , 6psi , wide open 110mph plus , PE in hot level 3 , no less than 3 psi , where it was zero before . i'm tempted to reinstall a set of unmoded bolts to see what effect they have .

this was STILL with the stock lift pump , no rebuild on it ( kit didn't come yet ) , stock lines except the one between the lift pump and stock , slightly modified filter housing . the stock fuel system is capable of making 500 flywheel HP , next is to drop in the DD3's ...

oh i remember seeing something somewhere about the stock lift pump NOT having the screen on the inlet side , it does , mine was clean as a whistle after 30k miles .

sorry gene , if you want in the price of admission is to read it all ... but heres a hint , read my findings in this post , it pretty much says it all #ad


[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 03-25-2001). ]

 

[Arcticat]

Chris, I know what you mean. In retrospect I probably would have just gone with -6, I think it will surfice for most people. After all, why have 7/16 ID hose and then neck down to 5/16 at the injection pump, filter housing, and fuel tank? Oh well, the -8 is in and I'm not changing a thing, as I cannot get below 13psi with the Summit pump, that's with well over 350hp to the ground I am guessing. I'll bet your pressure is going to stay the same as you add power. With mine it doesn't matter if it's light throttle or foot to the floor, either way it drops to 13psi and won't go lower.

Brandon the reason I suggest the 90deg fitting is that it will allow you to use a straight hose end at $7 instead of a 90deg tube hose end at $21. That will shave $42 off the total cost. Also it will reduce the standoff of the line from the injection pump, which is the whole point of this exercise, right? In fact making the injection pump adapter straight and then using a 90deg tube hose end actually results in MORE standoff from the injection pump than the way I have mine rigged up with the Parker adapter and 90deg 1/4NPT to -8 with a straight hose end. I would get in touch with Parker, they will make anything, and the quality of the machine work will be phenominal. They can make in any metal too, eliminating the need to plate it.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

As for the fuel filters, I'll look at the 8. 3's that come into our shop, we see about 2 a month. Should be seeing more, as the snowbirds are coming back from AZ for power upgrades.

 

[Brandon]

I have some 6an fuel lines out that use a 90 at the filter and make the hose long enough and use a straght at the inj pump, but yes I know what you mean, BUT is cost the primary concer???? I think a 90 8an weber adaptor will take much more time to develop than a 8an weber adaptor straight, just thinking out loud
B

Beck be on the look out at the 8. 3's or any other higher flow fuel filter setup with like 1/2 ports with maybe even a heater built in?????????


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Danelle's Dodge

 

[Mopar-muscle]

brandon , thats a hoot , is cost the primary concern ??? ... i bet i could post that question and get more answers than this thread in 1 hour ... #ad
... my main reason for doing what i am doing is cost , as one vendor told me , cummins diesel owners are the cheapest guys going ... funny thing is they will buy the cheapest thing then turn around and spend that same amount and more to install a better product when the first buys the farm #ad
ok , i'm off my soapbox ...

ok , back to square one , i installed my DD3's today , all i can say is i should have got these first #ad
. i can still say that the stock fuel system WILL support the DD3's and a VA , pressure drops to 5 psi foot to the floor WOT 90 plus mph , didn't see what my EGT was , will take more data tomorrow . cruising at 70 mph, 8. 5 psi , egt was 650 (stock airbox with factory filter element) . still have all stock factory supplied fuel system components expect that silly line between the lift pump and the filter housing .

now for the bad news , you knew things can't be all rosey , turned on my PE level 2 , the fuel pressure gauge dropped as fast as the speedo went up , right down to nothing , not sure how fast i was going but i would guess around the century mark .

not sure which direction to go in next , there are 3 options , 1st , add the 7 psi carter pump close to the tank and see what happens . 2nd , pull out the stock lift pump and install the HP carter 15psi pump in the stock location . 3rd , replace the line to the injection pump and check for a change , this is probably next , then put the carter 15 psi in . at some point i will add a pre pump and see what kind of results that yeilds .


what change listed above would most interest the masses standing in the wings ?

[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 03-26-2001). ]

 

[Brandon]

MM I still dont get it sorry if I made you mad, I think we will end up with 2 options

6an upgraded line and fuel press monitoring for mild guys

8an with pump at the tank and a high flow fuel filter housing with the big pump and fittings

????????????? I dont know anymore all this is making me dizzy
B... ... ... ... ... ... .....

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Danelle's Dodge

 

[csutton7]

just some info about the fuel heater(from the service book for 1999):
The heater/element assembly is equipped with a temperature sensor(t-stat) that senses fuel temperature. This sensor is attached to the fuel heater/element assembly. When the temperature is below 45*F +/- 8*F, the sensor allows current to flow to the heater element warming the fuel. When the temperature is above 75*F +/- 8*F, the sensor stops the current flow to the heater element.

What I want to know is what happens to the heater if the fuel temperature is between 54* and 66*-does it come on or not??

for arguement's sake(from the book) let's say it does--then bypassing this heater may be a mistake. What temp does diesel start to gel is the key. If you live in a warm climate and never will see low temps then bypassing the heater/filter would be OK(you still need a filter somewhere to keep the VP44 from getting any crap), but for the cold temps or people who live in warm temps but will see cold temps bypassing the heater/filter may not be wise---

Anyway once I get the -08 tank pickup line in and can test the presure with the -06 line from filter to VP44 vs the pressure with the new -08/weber fittings we'll be able to see what happens and go from there. ---chris

 

[B. Gill]

chris,those sensors are not very sensitive thats why they give you a wide spread of +/- 8 degrees more than likely it will come on towards the lower end than the upper end of the tolerance,one thought is that change it as MM has done and leave the filter in or if we dont want to use the filter maybe just take the filter element out and leave the filter housing along with the heating element in and use a filter pre to the post to the pump installed near the tank?
just my 2 cents #ad
.
chris do you have any experience with the OILGUARD oil filters ?
thanks
bob

 

[Mopar-muscle]

brandon , no biggie , you didn't rile me at all , i just found that cost thing a bit funny , but thats me . there are a few guys that i have talked to that don't want to do anything to the truck that will A) make the driving more of a pleasure and B) make the components behind the engine last , even stock engines , all becuase of COST #ad


ok back on topic , any comments on next mod guys would like to see done ?

 

[Honker]

Was hoping one of you guys could help me out. I want to know which test port on 98. 5 is pre-filter and which one is after filter. Adding 2 pressure gauges, and wanted check before drilling out banjo bolts. Just figured I would do what I can to save pump. Have only mild mods 275"s VA and Boost Module and elbow. 29000 miles

 

[csutton7]

Honker-the one closest to the firewall is pre and the one closest to the front of the truck is post(after)--

I got the TJ's tank head setup today and started installing it tonight, I got about 30 minutes left, but need a fitting, so tomorrow I will give a test report on this set up--I really don't expect much, but do think it may ease the pump load in the long run and if we get the Heater/filter worked out then this setup will be pretty good--I think I'll install a pre-pump filter also and remove the filter in the heater and see what this does, if I can get the head & filter--- chris

 

[rotohead]

Brandon,
If that -6 line you mention is for stock lift pump, I'll take one set. Email me at rotohead@xmission.com and I'll send you a check. Thanks
Chuck

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'98. 5 2500 QC ISB 4x4 SLT, Auto w/Transgo shiftkit, JRE 4" exhaust w/5"Tip, DD II's w/Module&Elbow, VA box, Rancho 9000's w/in cab adjust, Mag-Hytec trans&diff covers, Jacobs E-Brake w/BD autoloc, trans temp, boost & EGT gauges, 2Low Kit, Brite Box, Steel Horse Billet Grilles, AirBullDog hood induction system

 

[HeberRam]

Brandon... One set for me ... . Check your e-mail thanks.

 

[Brandon]

not to take advantage of this thread, but I have two 6an upgraded line sets ready to go if anyone wants???????

they just got sold, I can make more by the end of the week if anyone wants


Brandon

[This message has been edited by Brandon (edited 03-27-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

got Ted Jannetty's tank module in so now I'm -08AN from tank to pump to regulator to filter/heater & -06AN from filter/heater to VP44--pressure (post filter fluctuates less and maintains a steady 14-15psi(I turned down the psi to 15) when cruising and drops to 13 psi @ WOT--so the big difference is psi is even steadier and the pump sounds a little different, like it's not working as hard(minor sound diff, I can really tell the difference when key is first turned on before starter is engaged--it isn't cheap, but if you order just the module, the pickup and the fittings to attach to the module(4) and you buy the hoses, clamps and whatever fittings you need you can save some money--It's a well engineered setup-and the directions are pretty good--this setup isn't for everybody but if you relocate your pump and use the Mallory, BG or equivalent and your HP is up there I think it's smart--I think you maybe able to drill out the OEM tank module and accomplish the same thing, but I haven't done it yet to see if this would work and I may not(want to keep the stock set), but I think a person could with some time on their hands--

I was at a NAPA store today looking in their catalogs and saw some filter setups that were huge-3/4" ports, 1" ports(extremely heavy duty)(ports on the sides) which allowed you to install a screw on filter but they didn't have a way to mount them, so you'd probably have to weld something on them for a mount---I also saw a heater assembly that will attach to a high flow filter(DAHL), but the filter assembly was 14" tall and the ports were on the top, so there is something available just to dang tall, hopefully someone will find us something to replace the factory heater/filter, I will continue to look as time permits--chris

 

[JR2]

Has anyone (mopar) tried the second carter lift pump back by the tank?? That just seems like a simple (cheap) way to fix the problem??

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John D. Rathert Jr.
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01 2500 Forrest Green Sport SLT+ QC LWB 4x4 Auto 3. 54 rear end with all options avail. DC Nerf Bars, DC Grill Guard, DC mud flaps, Line-X bed liner, Leer 160XL Topper, Power Edge, EZ Edge, SPA Boost/EGT Gauge on pillar mount, DTT's tc/vb combo, 275 RV injectors, DD 4" Exhaust and a KN RE0880 where the air box use to be. New turbo (HX40), SS fuel lines and bigger injectors in planning stages... . See My Truck, Dads truck: 98. 5 3500 SLT QC LWB 4x4, Brother Truck: 92 W250 SLT CC LWB 4x4 (Dads old truck) Winter fun - 2000 Skidoo Summit 700
I am my own warranty station. ZOOM ZOOM
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