Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) I think I fried my VP44

[MRiley]

Ok so this is a little different one. Driving down the road and the truck shut down. No warning, no power loss, no dead pedal issues nothing. One minute running strong as ever, the next completely dead and will not restart. I got the truck towed home and found that I have fuel pressure (16 psi) at the Schrader valve on the VP, I have fuel in the filter, but when I opened the line at the first injector nothing, not a drop. Now the really odd part, no codes. I checked them with my smarty, also did the key trick, had a friend come over with his shop scan tool and no codes. Im guessing the VP finally died. The truck only has 67,000 on the clock, they are almost all towing miles.

So, I'm looking at new VP's My question is about the HO versus the SO. Most are saying to go with the SO as a replacement. I understand that the SO is a higher volume pump but a little lower pressure. With the HO motor and stock HO injectors set to pop off at the higher pressure, will the truck be as responsive? I'm guessing from the specs that it will be more slugish off the line but with the higher volume it should pull better in the mid to upper? Would switching to RV275 injectors help out with this? Will the clutch be able to take the rv275's with the smarty? I should mention I have the stock turbo bumped up to 29psi as well.

Truck specs are 2001.5, HO, 6spd, Smarty, 4in straight pipe, K&N cold air intake, Fass frame mount lift pump, vulcan fuel line upgrade, stock turbo with adjustable elbow, Full gauges

 

[JR]

I would stick with the HO pump. It will benefit you more for your set up. The whole argument of SO pumps are better really don't hold true unless you are going for big HP numbers.

When you checked for fuel at the injectors, you cracked the lines loose and cranked the engine over? What scanner did your friend use?
I have seen a few instances where the ecm went bad and would cause a no run scenario like your experiencing, but both times the DRB scanner failed to connect when trying to read codes.

 

[MRiley]

JR - thanks.

So, yes when i cracked the injector i did crank the motor. I got nothing. My friend used the DRB scanner. I was a bit concerned about the ecm/pcm so i did the trouble shooting recommended in the Blue Chip Site. I have voltage in the plug pins I'm suppose to and I also tried direct wiring the VP and bypassing the computer. The pump never kicked on and the truck still won't start. I'm guessing it's dead....

I see in your profile you are running a Blue chip VP, any issues? I was looking at them. They are not the cheepest but I really don't want to be doing this again in a few years.. I also have recently read some real bad reviews on the life span of the Industrial injection pumps.

 

[JR]

Never had a problem or regret spending the extra coin. Their pumps are the most expensive on the market but you almost never hear of a failure from them. Less than 2% which is better than anybody on the market. There are other options out there, you may or may not have as good of results with them. Just make sure you buy a pump with a new psg as that is still the #1 failure rate of these pumps. Many rebuilders still sell their pumps with used psg so make sure you ask if it does not specifically say NEW. Also be aware there is a difference of new vs reman psg. Reman MAY be ok but heat cycles is what traditionally has been the demise of the electronics so I would stick with a new unit if you plan on keeping the truck for any length of time and want to do it once.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Yes VP44s can die with no warning at all, it sounds like in your case the rotor may have seized...mechanical failure. Happened to a friend with a 2002, cruising at 70 down the freeway...it suddenly bucked and acted like it backfired and immediately engine quit. It was done.

I would stay with the HO pump, tends to get slightly better mileage. But if you did switch to a SO your engine would be a little quieter and larger injectors and power boxes always net you a few more HP across the board (it doesn't just increase max power capabilty). For example RV injectors give you 40-45hp gain with the HO pump, but at least 50 with the SO pump. Also you don't need to reset pop pressures on injectors.

If you want some good educational reading on VP pumps look around Blue Chip's website.

 

[MRiley]

Ok, this is getting frustrating... I did the diagnostic testing listed on the blue chip site and my pump failed every time. So I just finished installing the new VP from blue chip. I bled the system and i'm getting fuel to the injectors. The truck still will not start. The lift pump is giving me 16psi. and I checked the relay, also did a swap just to be sure, no change. I'm now getting a 1689 code. I had no codes to begin with so I assume this is a new code. Any ideas???

 

[JR]

Have you cracked all the injectors? Start at the front and do one at a time until there is fuel there, then tighten that one and go to the next and crack it loose and bleed it until you see fuel, tighten and move on to the next. If your getting fuel to all injectors it should fire. Usually I only have to bleed a few before it will fire.

 

[JLandry]

Any ideas???

Have you tried holding the accelerator pedal TO THE FLOOR while cranking? This was the only way I could get my old 2001 to kick off after at VP44 change.

Once it started, it ran like crap for about 15-20 seconds while all the air was being purged from the high pressure side of the fuel injection system, then it smoothed out.

John L.

 

[JLandry]

I'm now getting a 1689 code.

That means no communication between the ECM and VP44 computer. Assuming nothing is wrong with the wiring harness, ECM, or VP44, it could've been triggered by applying power to the ECM while not supplying power to the VP44... as when you were playing around with the relays.

If you clear the P1689 trouble code but it comes back, then the first thing to do is verify the VP44 is getting power when the ignition key is in the RUN position. Let me know if you need more info on how to do this and I'll post the troubleshooting steps.

Best regards,

John L.

 

[MRiley]

Ok, this is getting better by the min... So, I replaced the Fuel filter (just to eliminate some possible problems). While doing so I noticed that the bowl was completely dry. I bumped the starter and it did not fill. I pulled the line on the FASS (suction side) and put my thumb over it. I'm feeling no suction what so ever.... I would think I should feel something right? I'm guessing that the FASS failed and grenaded the VP... But my fuel pressure gauge is still showing 16 PSI. I have it hooked to the low pressure side of the VP. It is reading 16 now with no fuel in the system..... The perfect storm??? loosing the entire fuel system at once? I don't get it. Does FASS have a rebuild kit? the motor is definitely running so it should be just the pump part that is toast.

 

[JR]

Anything on the suction side of the pump? (Debris)

Not familiar with the FASS pumps but Air Dog has a cover you can remove to access the gears on the pump to check for any debris or wear.

 

[MRiley]

Not sure. Good question. It started raining so I'm done for tonight. I'll have to get the pump down tomorrow and look. I'll need the serial number anyway when I call FASS. It is for sure not pulling any suction against my finger.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

That's odd the gauge shows 16psi when it doesn't seem to pump. Does it drop down to zero when the pump stops?

If your pump is working good it should prime the system through to the filter pretty fast, I open the drain line and put the hose in a 2-liter pop bottle then bump the starter...should pump fuel through and fill the bottle fast.

When I pulled my VP44 and lines off once it took an eternity to get it to fire back up, lots and lots of cranking. When it did start it ran pretty rough for a bit.

 

[MRiley]

That's odd the gauge shows 16psi when it doesn't seem to pump. Does it drop down to zero when the pump stops?

If your pump is working good it should prime the system through to the filter pretty fast, I open the drain line and put the hose in a 2-liter pop bottle then bump the starter...should pump fuel through and fill the bottle fast.

I left the top off the filter and bumped the starter. The lift pump ran but there was no increase in the fuel level in the filter housing. I also put my thumb over the suction side of the lift pump and did not feel any suction. As far as the gauge goes I'm guessing it is trashed. The pressure will drop to 0 as soon as I crank the motor but it's reading 16 while the lift pump is running, which should not be possible with an empty filter.

 

[JR]

You must have an electric gauge? Exactly why I won't run anything but mechanical. I've been flamed on here before for saying this but I refuse to run anything else. As with anything all it requires is a little common sense... run the proper line and protect it from chaffing along with a needle valve pinched down about 90% and it'll be the last gauge you ever buy.

 

[MRiley]

You must have an electric gauge?

Yep, you are correct. I don't think I will be running it much longer!

 

[MRiley]

Continuing the saga...

I poke with FASS... They told me that there are no rebuild kits for the HPFP, nothing. They did offer to rebuild it for 150-200 + shipping both ways + a 25 bench fee. They also told me that I could purchase a new one for 300. I asked for break down schematic and specs, that told me that they did not have any of that info (this was the tech department)but they could give me the NAPA part numbers for the internal O rings. The NAPA numbers were wrong. #@$%! After working with he NAPA people I was able to source the correct ones and put the pump back together.

Got the system to prime and the truck Fired!

The fuel gauge is definitely bad. I do not have the sending unit connected to the fuel pump and it is reading 12psi..

So i warmed it up to take it for a drive. I drove literally 50 yards and the gauges all went dead and the odometer started flashing NO BUS. The truck is back in the garage now. It seems completely determined to not run.

 

[JR]

Did you get a no bus signal before?

Something does not seem right, I would go back through and check the connection at the VP as well as at the ECM if you were playing around with it during your troubleshooting. Maybe it needs pulled apart and cleaned with some contact cleaner.

Aside from that, battery connections both hot and ground clean and tight? Charging properly?

 

[MRiley]

Took all the connectors apart cleaned and reinstalled, I took off the battery cables cleaned and reinstalled, I checked grounds, and every connector i could find, nothing worked. Finally I went under the dash and unplugged the connections there, i also pulled and reinstalled the cluster. All better now. Just an ABS light that will not go out, everything is working norm. No Codes. Just waiting on a new fuel gauge then this project is done!

 

[CHudacko]

Sounds like I have the same problem, my 02 died on the way home Saturday 11/01/14 after passing it's state inspection. I haven't had the time to check it out yet & I really hope the VP44 isn't dead, since I've had to replace twice already. 7/10 & 8/12.
This time might be the one that breaks my love of the dodge trucks.

Truck specs: 2002 2500, 2 wheel drive, auto,Fass frame mount lift pump, vulcan fuel line upgrade, stock turbo,, low fuel pressure light, 156,000 miles.