I think this is my last one

[grabinov]

I'll be honest - I'm not sure I'll buy another Dodge/Cummins truck...

Let me start by saying I'm not one of those complaint guys - you know, the guys who ALWAYS have something to complain about with their truck. I have owned four Dodge Cummins trucks in a row - a 1998; a 1994; a 2004 and a 2014. I own 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner I have restored from an old hulk I found in a driveway with 2 flat tires. I'm a Mopar guy.

But I'm tired of making excuses for my truck. The dash systems often don't come on in the morning until I have driven for a few miles. That means that even with a heavy trailer, I have to pull away from my house without Tow/Haul on, and it's not an easy pull - uphill with a big fifth wheel. And I often forget to press the button when it does come on ten minutes later.

The rear air system is confusing and non-intuitive, so much so that it seems inconsistent. It goes up an down as it pleases when the trailer is being connected and disconnected, and it makes it nearly impossible to get the fifth wheel pin unhooked without catching it on the hitch.

The exhaust brake won't come on unless I have accelerated since the last stop - take your foot off the brake after a stop sign and roll down the steep hill in front of you and it won't engage. It won't engage at the 35mph speed limit unless you have ACCELERATED to that limit, not rolled.

And then there's the one that brings me to this point. Saturday I got in my truck to start a 120 mile highway drive. The engine surged at idle as it often does. It surged horribly as I exited my steep driveway, in reverse and as I took my foot off the pedal as I reached the curb - trying to pull the truck into the street. It surged the entire trip - so much so that I could hear it on the highway on level ground. It's not visible on the tach, but it's there, and it's not right. With one stop for starbucks before arriving, it was still surging in the long driveway at the other end of my drive, and at idle before I shut it down. It's the sound like when you are with a driver who can't keep his foot still on the accelerator pedal - on/off; on/off; on/off. No other truck I have ever driven does this. No other car I have driven does this other than an 84 Jetta I had with a bad idle stabilizer valve. And here's the worst:

I have been driving a 2018 Ford F-350 Diesel at work, and I can tell you this: IT'S A BETTER DRIVETRAIN. It doesn't behave like it's run by a computer which second-guesses my every command. It tows like a freight train. It is smooth as silk under every condition I have encountered. It gets the same mileage we get. I wish in every way that it wasn't a better truck, but it is. In the old days I could love my Cummins because it "had a real diesel" - but they are all real diesels now. It sounded like a "real diesel" - but they are all silent now. Modern trucks have no character, they are just rolling computers. And f that's all they are, I can't see why I wouldn't buy the one with the best computer code.

I'm tired of making excuses for my truck. It's just not a good computer. I wish Ram could get it right.

 

[jgillott]

You are not alone in your feelings. I just passed 25 years of consecutive Cummins Ram ownership and I too don't believe that I will be buying another one anytime soon. I can't complain too much about my current trucks. They are all old and just plain used up. But, 2 of the 3 of mine are down right now and I'm driving a rental until I can get them fixed. Again, it's not the truck's fault that I have used them so hard, but I can't stand the constant repairs that are necessary to keep these trucks on the road. I am in the process of buying a new plow truck and it should be in soon. I will keep my current '07 5.9L for the time being. But I am definitely going in another direction entirely. Is there any guarantee that it will be any better than the Rams have been. Absolutely not. But, I have to try something different. I can't afford the downtime anymore.

 

[6V92TA]

FWIW the exhaust brake has the most effectiveness the faster the engine is running.. in other words idling down a hill at slow speeds its not going to do anything, simply because it can't

 

[kthaxton]

More specifically... the torque converter needs to be locked...and it needs to be in a gear that will result in more than 1200 rpm.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

As jgillott said, you are not alone in your feelings. I’ve owned a lot of vehicles in my time and my ‘14 Cummins is by far the worst vehicle I’ve owned. There’s constantly something wrong with it and completely unreliable. It’s going to take more than a lot to get me to buy another one.

 

[DavidC]

I still love my 99. It sounds like a diesel and does not have near the electronics of the newer vehicles. I have watched over the years as the emissions, luxury's and electronic controls have blossomed. All that stuff is not for me as I want to work on my truck and not pay someone 95 plus to do the work I was capable of doing. The biggest problem I see is the electronics, what happens when all this stuff quits working ?. As far as I know no one is making a replacement and repair is sketchy. So you now have a 50-75k truck that is worthless except for scrap.

Dave

 

[KCJackson1]

If you're not happy with Ram's electronics, you probably will find similar issues with Ford's and GM's electronics. All trucks are like this now, and they all have their gremlins and idiosyncrasies. The only issue that gives me pause is the torque management/defueling with the Aisin. FCA and Cummins have to get that right in the new truck - if it means getting a more capable transmission/transfer case/axles than Aisin/Borg-Warner/AAM, so be it. Engine torque output is pointless if the rest of the driveline can't handle it.

 

[6.7LRigby]

If your engine is 'surging' with no change in RPM, I would say it is your fan clutch engaging. Mine does it very often too.
If you want a different truck, just do it.

 

[6V92TA]

weird, I have a 2016 3500 series Tradesman with 48,000 miles. only thing that has went wrong with it is a brake light bulb

 

[EDankievitch]

I'm in much the same boat as you. My last two Ram's have been a let down. I knew when I bought my 89 way back in 1990 that it was "Old and very outdated "style wise but the engine was what put it over the top. That truck was my best friend for 11 years. I'm sorry I let go. The 02 was a nice truck until my friendly dealer destroyed the engine trying to fix an oil leak ( killer Dowel pin) . The 05 was a good truck after I rebuilt the front end at 68,000 miles with Carli parts and a South Bend clutch at 137,000 miles. The 2012 was a disaster and ended up having to be Lemon law. My 2013 when it runs is awesome when everything plays together. However it's only been able to make two trips from Ny to Fla with out the check engine lamp coming on or going into limp mode. Between software issues and sensor issues an alt that burned up and bunch of recalls the dealer's service loves this truck. I've spent far more time sitting in his waiting room than I ever did in all the 11 years I owned my 89 added together. I under stand things and way more complex, but this is not something new your I phone workd everywhere doesn't it? I work for a ferry company I see what trucks are being used by fleets what lasts what does not. I'm going to get nailed to the cross now for saying this but after talking to a very large bunch of fleet drivers the new Ford truck seem to have it right. They just work. The drivers are reporting that break downs are not happening. They can't say that about the Ram products. Cummins will always be the better engine but what it has to work with... Well something has been lost along the way. Best way to describe it is that Ram went cheap with it's components . How many time have you started your Rams only to have half the functions on the Dash work? They will come on after you'v been driving a bit but it's as if the computer forgot they were part of the truck. I've had the truck not start unless I re-lock and then unlock the doors a few times to "wake up" the computer.
Unless Ram gets their head out of their ass and starts building a better quality truck this one will be my last Ram. Maybe if Fiat sells them to that Korean company things will get better but I do not see it happening with Fiat.

 

[Regcabguy]

Two guys in the neighborhood with 6.7 Fords have had zero issues from new.
One just returned from Baja towing his very heavy race truck. No issues. Programming and understanding all the computerized features has been a learning curve. Quiet and quick.
My 5.9 will outlast mine and will be the last diesel.

 

[KPear]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Plenty of Ford and GM owners have had the same type of problems that you are discussing.

FCA’s reputation for reliability isn’t where it should be, I agree with that much. But compared to the older rams (dodges) these newer trucks are built much better....there really is no debate on that. The newer engines and drive trains are more robust and capable.

As for electric gremlins and dashboard lights, welcome to 2018. That’s going to be a potential issue for any new truck, regardless of brand or gasoline vs diesel. FWIW, I drove the Dalton highway recently; most of the pickups being used there were either fords or rams.

 

[jacknife]

They all have problems some more then others. GO to any FORD or GM dealer and they are dealing with the same electronic problems as Ram to one degree or another. Thank CA and the EPA .

 

[jgillott]

All reasons why more and more people are keeping their vehicles short term, 2-3 years, and getting out of them while they are still under warranty. Completely different from what we are used to when it comes to vehicle ownership.

 

[EDankievitch]

I agree that today's trucks are built better than ones years back. my 13 has far less squeeks and rattles than the 02 I had. Mt feeling is while Ram started with a great plan it got lost along the way. There is a lot to be said when the company that makes the engine also makes the truck body, chassie, transmission and the electronics that make it all work. Or has specked out what component to be used and where where / who will make it. Ram has a engine made by Cummins (awesome product) a cab built be Ram a computer built by the cheapest supplier transmission by well a few different people depending on what you order. The exhaust system by someone else ( remember the recall on the SRC system two years ago when the parts used were not "good enough") this is all well and good as long as you follow through and make sure everything plays nice together. How many Ram with the Assin transmission have had the dead throttle issue? My truck will forget to turn things on including the engine some times. Quality control has dropped the ball. You spend north of $60K on a truck you expect it to just work and work well every day. Not spit out code after code every time you try to drive it further than the next state line. I will say while most long distance trips that I have taken and got a Check Engine Lamp with a list of codes the truck always made the trip with out failing. Trip back to the dealer's service shop that is under it's own power....
Sorry I supported Chrysler back when everyone else had all but given up on them. I feel Fait has lost that drive to survive. all they care is sales even if the product is not really ready. Want proof just look how long it took to get Good replacement parts out to us for all the recalls so far..... No product is perfect they all have faults. I just feel Fiat has lost it's way. Unless something changes I will not be buying another one from them.

 

[KPear]

I agree that today's trucks are built better than ones years back. my 13 has far less squeeks and rattles than the 02 I had. Mt feeling is while Ram started with a great plan it got lost along the way. There is a lot to be said when the company that makes the engine also makes the truck body, chassie, transmission and the electronics that make it all work. Or has specked out what component to be used and where where / who will make it. Ram has a engine made by Cummins (awesome product) a cab built be Ram a computer built by the cheapest supplier transmission by well a few different people depending on what you order. The exhaust system by someone else ( remember the recall on the SRC system two years ago when the parts used were not "good enough") this is all well and good as long as you follow through and make sure everything plays nice together. How many Ram with the Assin transmission have had the dead throttle issue? My truck will forget to turn things on including the engine some times. Quality control has dropped the ball. You spend north of $60K on a truck you expect it to just work and work well every day. Not spit out code after code every time you try to drive it further than the next state line. I will say while most long distance trips that I have taken and got a Check Engine Lamp with a list of codes the truck always made the trip with out failing. Trip back to the dealer's service shop that is under it's own power....
Sorry I supported Chrysler back when everyone else had all but given up on them. I feel Fait has lost that drive to survive. all they care is sales even if the product is not really ready. Want proof just look how long it took to get Good replacement parts out to us for all the recalls so far..... No product is perfect they all have faults. I just feel Fiat has lost it's way. Unless something changes I will not be buying another one from them.

I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Firstly, Cummins makes both the engine and the exhaust aftertreatment system, both of which are vast improvements over what the industry was dealing with only 4-5 years ago. People can complain all they want about CARB and EPA reg's, but diesel emission controls are a fact of life now.

Secondly, FCA isn't the only OEM to outsource for different parts. Ford and GM have done the same for stuff like transmissions.

I do agree that quality control could be better, especially for a +$60k truck. FCA has made some strides towards that goal, but that is a whole lot of room for improvement. The reality is, even with the few recalls and issues that people here like to bring up, these newer Ram trucks are better built and more reliable than those from only a few years ago. There are potential issues to be aware of (emissions systems, sensors, ect.), but if anyone here thinks that they're going to avoid those issues by switching to Ford or GM, they're living in a dream world.

 

[jgillott]

KPear, you make absolutely valid points and I agree whole heartedly that 2018 and beyond provides for additional challenges going forward for every manufacturer. As these vehicles get more and more complex, the reliability and repair costs will become more of a factor.

If you have been following any of my threads in the other vehicle section, I just picked up my first Ford this week. I did so because 2 of my 3 Rams are currently down for major repairs again. Secondly, one of those 2 that are down has been extremely problematic over the last 18 months or so and I simply can't continue to afford the downtime.

Did I go with Ford in protest agains Ram, certainly not. In fact, I shopped Ram and found that Ford was just simply much cheaper for a comparable truck right now. I will also tell you that I am changing my vehicle purchasing strategy. I'm no longer going to buy and hold on to them until I can't fix them anymore. My plan is, providing that I can continue to do so, is to buy new, keep it approximately 2 years, and get rid of it before I am out of factory warranty. I'm not rust proofing anymore, no extended warranties, no crazy preventative maintenance schedules. Simply drive, change the oil when the light comes on, and dump it before it becomes my responsibility.

I've lost too much work and productivity over broken down trucks, I just have to change my approach.

 

[CEppinger]

At 42,000 miles I did get a new SCR, new Alternator and a new water pump. So it wasn't a complete loss.

 

[User113]

At 42,000 miles I did get a new SCR, new Alternator and a new water pump. So it wasn't a complete loss.

I'm not sure that getting things replaced at 42,000 miles is, in fact, a benefit of any sort...it begs the question "how long will the replacements last?"

 

[EDankievitch]

I also have had the SRC, the water pump and alt replaced all in under 70,000 miles and almost 5 years of ownership. Yes everyone outsources parts but Fiat seems to have dropped the ball with follow through with quality. AS for the SRC I do not believe that was provided by Cummins for my truck. If I recall that was part of the ******* match as to who was going to pay for replacing all of them when they started to fail early. I want to say that Cummins had specked out a supplier and Fiat went with a cheaper one. As we who ended up getting new ones well know those units weren't up to the task. I' m a simple man I just want a truck that works right. We've had more than enough time to have fixed these things before they hit the market. Our trucks are not a "New untested
Technology thing". They have been in the works for years now. I hope the next gen Rams have it figured out maybe they will change my mind........ One can only hope.