illflem, did you discard apples??

[boatpuller]

Bill,
King 5 and Komo 4 evening news:
Saw Chelan apple and pear growers parade through town on their tractors, just wondered if you were one of the celebrities?

Happy Rammin
Caleb

 

[illflem]

Caleb,wanted to but had a dentist appointment. If you mean discard by selling the fruit for less than it cost to produce,yes,I discarded my entire crop. One more year like the last three and most all apple/pear growers in this state will be out of business,40% are already bankrupt. The only reason that the growers that are left are hanging on now is that they are selling ag land for housing or spending their retirement money to keep going.
Dam Clinton,NAFTA and China.

 

[Big-D]

Tell me something illflem, for I fail to understand why all of the best Washington grown apples have to be shipped overseas. Everytime my wife tries to select a WA grown apple we are purchasing last years crop or number two's.

I can appreciate the dumping of your crop downtown in support of your earnings, but who is making the return on your investment and hard work? Seems to me if you guys are wanting support from the public, your best crop shouldn't be shipped elswhere. The foriegn products are becoming cheaper and sometimes taster than what is grown in our very own state. I'm not saying this is your fault directly, but I would think the storage houses, wholsalers and marketing people need to hear why the public isn't buying home grown. To protest your crops market value is one thing, but to gain the support of the people is another. We as a family try our best to support local farmers, but WA apples need to be crisp and fresh like the ones I pick off my own tree in the yard. Not brused and dry.

I'd like an education on this matter and hear it from your side. Thanks! Dave

 

[illflem]

I feel the WA apple industry cut it's own throat by rewarding growers based on the fruit's looks and color rather than it's eating quality. This mainly applies to the Red Delicious,something I haven't grown for ten years. The Red was bred to be pretty and grower friendly,no concern was given to taste,you can only fool the people for so long,domestic consumption declined along with the price.
Unfortunately the Reds price drug the other newer better tasting varieties down with it. Couple this with the fact that in the last 3 years there has been consolidation of grocery chains to the point where 95% of the food in the US is controlled by six companies who now almost have a monopoly for setting prices and admit that apples are their biggest profit makers,they demand apples at 10-25¢ a pound,have you ever seen them that cheap?
You're wrong about the best fruit being exported,in fact it's the other way around. The biggest export markets are Mexico and the Far East. The economic problems in the Far East basically ruined that market for the US,China took over with cheap to produce apples. Mexico is cheating on it's end of NAFTA by charging high tariffs and sometimes cutting the flow of apples completely whenever they want. This creates a glut in the US which created a backlog of old fruit,some producers were selling fruit 14 months old to get rid of it. I don't know how that could make domestic consumers want to buy more,must taste like crap. That practice ended this year with some laws that are too late. The WA apple industry has finally realized that consumers want something that tastes good and the technology has been developed recently to electronically sort apples according to taste so that will change also,too late. If per capita consumption of apples in the US matched Europe there would be no problem,in fact there would be a shortage of apples.
US consumers are into food in a box or frozen that is fast. When McDonalds' does a promotion of their apple turnovers it results in the increased sales of 10s of millions of boxes of apples,face it that's where most Americans eat.
The completion from China will never end,it will get worse. There have been 3 million acres of apples planted there since '95,there are only 175,000 acres in WA. It's been said that if every tree in China produces just one apple it will still be 4 times WA's production!!Labor there is basically free,WA has the highest minimum wage in the US. China can use pesticides that have been outlawed in this country for over 20 years,we pay more for pesticides every year due to the high cost of EPA registrations to keep our food safe. Another problem is water,some people want to tear down the hydro-dams for the salmon,what a crock,but it has already made water costs go up. A lot of money has also gone into new technology to eliminate pesticides entirely and it is working,I rarely spray any more,before the sprayer was going 24/7. There is no way to compete with this,apple growers have never received govt subsidies but will soon. The govt does realize that if the farmers go out of business and we rely on foreign food that we can be starved out when another country gets POed with us.

What the US consumer can expect is a better tasting safe apple that will cost more and will be grown by corporate farms or Chinese. Family farms aren't going to survive free trade,I'd sell my orchard now if I could find someone stupid enough to buy it. At least the growth management act is being changed in Olympia right now so that ag land can be subdivided for houses,too bad if losing farm land is what it takes to get out of it. It worked in Calif. ,they lose over 100,000 acres a year to houses. Plan is now to shift E. WAs economy from ag to a energy farm for Calif. More hydro dams if the salmon people let us. Finish building the WSPPS nuke plants and build more in the Hanford Reservation. Also talk of solar &wind farms, plus tax incentives to attract energy dependent and high tech employers to the area. Things will change over here. Bill



[This message has been edited by illflem (edited 02-24-2001). ]

 

[Doc Tinker]

I'd like to offer a flip side of the issue.

As a consumer, but one who's ancestors were farmers, I appreciate the family owned farm and buy from them as often as possible. The produce is always the freshest. The problem is... all the family owned places are about gone, sold out for developement in my area. This galls me because now all there is to look at is a bunch of cheap, overpriced housing. And I don't have any choices of where to go for fresh produce.

Basicly, the only time I buy fresh apples, cider or corn is during harvest time, that's the only time they are worth eating.

Hey illfem... You picking on me about McDonald's apple turnovers? Just the other day the guys I work with decided McDonald's was the lunch of the day. I ordered an apple turnover and ate homemade soup and corn muffins instead of that other McDonald's crap.

Although I'm forced to eat it at times, I hate boxed and frozen stuff, unless Mrs Doc is the one that boxed or froze it. I can't believe some of the stuff I see in the freezer department anymore, designer meals, blah!


Doc

 

[illflem]

Hey Doc,you really can't complain about the freshness of frozen or canned produce. It is usually harvested at peak maturity then shipped close by for quick processing,too bad they feel they need to load it up with salt and sugar,but there are clean brands now. The stuff in the produce dept. is harvested immature in order to survive shipment all the way across the country, or from Mexico, and then still be able to sit on the shelf for a few days. Best place to shop is a farm owned produce stand,but that won't do much for you in the winter.

 

[Power Wagon]

And here I live in another "hot spot" for apples. We grow them in amazing numbers too... probably even more intensively than Chelan does. What's different around here, is that Chelan is a pretty good recreation area, and Milton Freewater is not.

I really do believe the family farm can be saved... As you commented, the consumer really does like a good tasting apple or peach or whatever. It will have to survive in the "niche" markets... Yes, Safeway has expensive apples, and they make money on them... But they taste like cardboard. But, even at Safeways ridiculously inflated prices, I'd be happy to pay more, if I could get a decent apple to eat. I suspect a LOT of people would, too.

I'm working with a local farmer who is in the same shoes you are, to try to find ways to direct-market thier products. The internet is an incredible tool that can be put to your use, but as we here have discovered, it's really tough for a single, financially unstable farmer to put on a successful marketing program.

Instead of attempting to mass-produce whatever it is you grow, you should be trying to raise the absolute best you can, and offering it to discriminating buyers. A small cooperative of growers, who can then offer a diverse array of products, and share the expenses of packing, storage, shipping and handling, could probably prosper, in comparison to trying to compete with mass-produced, low-quality and old fruit.

Change is hard to swallow, especially when it means risking everything you have, but change also brings opportunity, if you can find it and put it to use. That's why I'm in school right now. . I'm studying everything I can related to internet commerce, design, implementation. It's my dream to use my interests and aquired skills to put the new technologies and realities to work for people like you - who are doing something utterly invaluable, yet being displaced and losing economically.



------------------
ICQ 3807791 Power Wagon
www.my2kcity.com/powerwagon
Mark Koskenmaki, General Diesel Moderator

 

[illflem]

Mark,did have a niche. For the last 18 years have been growing Wa State certified Organic fruit and have made very good money doing it. The organic consumers demand a quality good to eat apple and that's what I've done,my apples are great to eat. What happened though about three years ago the corporate farms saw the money to be made by growing organic and started the transition,which by law takes three years. This is the first year their fruit can be sold as organic,the corporate guys flooded the market and lowered the price to almost the same level as non-organic. What that means is now the organic fruit can lose more money because it costs more to produce. I've seen this happen before with the big Alar scare in the 80s,the corporate guys pulled out when things went back to normal,hope they do the same again.
Check out my good friend and neighbor's website. He does everything to produce good to eat fruit,packs and markets it himself,but still says if things don't improve next year he's looking for a job at the post office. Me,I'll just retire early,no problem. In the meantime almost 1/4 of my orchard is coming out as we speak,grow alafala,still good money in hay.




[This message has been edited by illflem (edited 02-24-2001). ]

 

[Big-D]

illflem,

Thanks for your time in writing of your experiences and hardships. I have learned. As for the haying operation you're thinking about, we should talk, for I am selling all of my equipment except for two tractors.

I have made what is classified "local hay" on the west side for many years. Much different than alfala, but still met the needs for feeder cattle and some horses. Sold out of the field as well as delivered to your door. Would probably continue except most all of the farms I did custom work, have now turned into housing developments. Couple that with trying to navigate auto traffic and it just isn't worth it anymore. Snohomish County states I cannot run my tractor after 10pm even though the weather is forcing me to work longer days to save my crop. Just not worth the trouble on this side of our mountain range, but I do wish you well. With proper water rights,good ground and equipment that will stand the test, I'm sure you can make a profit. Find yourself a descent 18 wheeler and haul your crop over here to finalize the bottom line profit. Heck, I'd even work for ya summers for a place to park my camper and a few of your best organic apples. Dave

 

[illflem]

Dave thanks,no problem camping out here without working!! I have all the hay equipment I need but a bailer,they're easy to come by. There are plenty of new hobby horse farms around here now to sell to,most are having to go to the Basin for hay. In fact a torn out 40 acre orchard less than 1/2 mile from me has been converted to race horses,his main stud is worth over $1 million. He says he will buy the whole crop for top dollar if it is clean. Been growing beautiful alfalfa in the drive centers of the orchard for years,sickle and side deliver it into the tree rows for mulch,no herbicides or fertilizer is needed for the trees. The horse people cringe when they see me doing it. Main thing is if it's economic for me,the acreage is a lot for apples,but very small for hay. Not enough to justify a pickup wagon,you know what the alternative to that is.

[This message has been edited by illflem (edited 02-25-2001). ]