Improving the ride...

[ENafziger]

Great shots and it's doing what it was made for<!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Yup!!! For sure!!!

Unfortunately, I think I pushed it beyond its limits this weekend. After work Friday, I spent 6 1/2 hours loading red oak, locust, and maple firewood on the above triple axle trailer. I had to load the middle/rear of the trailer heavier and withhold a little on the front, as the rear end of the truck was sagging pretty good. I only had about 1 1/2" of shock shaft showing!!! Of course, the 1,000 lbs of auxilliary tank and fuel, chainsaws, etc in the bed of the truck didn't help.

I'm not sure what the trailer weighed, but I do know that it easily felt twice as heavy as the 10k lb tractor, and probably more like 2. 5 - 3X as heavy. All 6 tires on the trailer were pooching pretty good. I was not able to start off in 1st gear on paved flat ground at all without BADLY slipping the clutch. I killed the engine in the process of trying... that's the first time I've ever had that happen!! I ended up having to run in 4-Lo most of the way home at ~ 30 mph just to be able to pull the load.

I really need to get the '06 going again! But, the old truck got me home and kept on smiling!

 

[ENafziger]

Well, I have worked the truck a little too hard. I've been hooking to trailers and hauling continuously almost for the past month, frequently grossing 12k - 30k lbs.

On Saturday, I had the triple axle trailer loaded down with logs. I was hauling them about 25 miles to some property where I can burn them. The drive to the property includes 2 miles of offroad rutted dirt/mud/gravel road on steep grades. Nearing the destination, the truck came to an abrupt halt. The Class V hitch actually buckled, bent down, and the tongue of the trailer hit the dirt. There was so much weight on the hitch that my shocks were compressed to practically ZERO travel in the rear.

This truck is doing more than it was meant to do, and I'm getting by... . but I really need to get my '06 going again. I love the old 12 valve in looks, grunt, ride, nostalgia, etc... but I'm afraid I can't keep working it like this without detrimental results. The brakes, axles, transmission, frame, and suspension are lacking to be doing absurd work like this

Hopefully I'll get things pulled apart tonight. I don't *think* the truck is hurt, but the bed has a slight passenger side lean to it as it sits now...

--Eric

 

[Nyoest]

Green stacked wood is crazy heavy. I beleive a cord of white oak weighs about 6300 lbs green. So ya, you prolly had a tad more on than the tractor weighs



Damn nice job on the truck btw.

 

[ENafziger]

I took the hitch off last night, and took a look at what was going on.

Here's a pic of the damage:

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Notice the end of the frame rail is bent down at the end. Upon close inspection, the frame rail is bent every place the hitch was bolted on...

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I have a plan to get this Class V hitch back into shape and reinforce it significantly. I'm still unsure how to strengthen the frame. Boxing it in sounds easy, but there are too many bolts that would become inaccessible. It's possible to weld the nuts before boxing things in for some bolts, but the 4 rear bed bolts pose a problem.

Thoughts or suggestions? I'm sure others have hauled heavy with their 1st gens before?

--Eric

 

[HHhuntitall]

I've seen this happen before, and I've fixed it. IMO: Try to straighten your frame as best you can. Pobably welding up the tears where the bolts go. Take some 1/4 or 5/16 plate, skin the inside of the frame, using longer bolts to hold the plate in place, and stab a 2" wide or so 6" long piece up through the crossmember and bolt it with a 1/2" bolt to transfer some weight up there. Half your rear axle weight is carried on those two sets of bolts for the rear spring hangers so bolt them in through the plate. Then take another piece of plate and skin the lower channel of the frame rail, and weld it to the side piece. The next step is probably the best thing you can do. Move the reciever tube closer to the rear axle. As close as you can and still have the clearance you need for your trailer. And from what I can see, push that cheater-pipe of a reciever hitch in as FAR as you can, and redrill it, so it doesn't stick out so far!! That thing is what caused most your problems!!! I'm surprised it wasn't picking the front tires off the ground!!! That's WAY eek too much leverage, IMO. Do you have a spare under the frame? I didn't think the 35's would fit, but if you don't you can find some blank reciever tubes (Product Categories - Welcome to Buyers Products Company) and build your own, bracing it off the frame further up, distributing some more weight to the front of the frame, and giving your load less leverage over your truck. Also, I'd suggest a piece of heavy wall tubing or angle iron welded between the skin plates to help minimize any flexing, which can also be tied in to the tube in the middle to help distribute weight. Just my $. 03.



..... and just IMO(you knew this was coming): You are seriously overusing your single rear axle! Ok, so you had to get it done, but after the hitch is upgraded, what gives next?!?!? Ok, I'll leave you alone, now. Good luck fixing it.

 

[Grey Wolf]

I've seen this happen before, and I've fixed it. IMO: Try to straighten your frame as best you can. Pobably welding up the tears where the bolts go. Take some 1/4 or 5/16 plate, skin the inside of the frame, using longer bolts to hold the plate in place, and stab a 2" wide or so 6" long piece up through the crossmember and bolt it with a 1/2" bolt to transfer some weight up there. Half your rear axle weight is carried on those two sets of bolts for the rear spring hangers so bolt them in through the plate. Then take another piece of plate and skin the lower channel of the frame rail, and weld it to the side piece. The next step is probably the best thing you can do. Move the reciever tube closer to the rear axle. As close as you can and still have the clearance you need for your trailer. And from what I can see, push that cheater-pipe of a reciever hitch in as FAR as you can, and redrill it, so it doesn't stick out so far!! That thing is what caused most your problems!!! I'm surprised it wasn't picking the front tires off the ground!!! That's WAY eek too much leverage, IMO. Do you have a spare under the frame? I didn't think the 35's would fit, but if you don't you can find some blank reciever tubes (Product Categories - Welcome to Buyers Products Company) and build your own, bracing it off the frame further up, distributing some more weight to the front of the frame, and giving your load less leverage over your truck. Also, I'd suggest a piece of heavy wall tubing or angle iron welded between the skin plates to help minimize any flexing, which can also be tied in to the tube in the middle to help distribute weight. Just my $. 03.



..... and just IMO(you knew this was coming): You are seriously overusing your single rear axle! Ok, so you had to get it done, but after the hitch is upgraded, what gives next?!?!? Ok, I'll leave you alone, now. Good luck fixing it.

I would have to agree especially on the stinger, Lot's of leverage there! It's just me but with all that weight I would consider a weight distribution hitch to through some of that weight to the front axles... .

 

[ENafziger]

And from what I can see, push that cheater-pipe of a reciever hitch in as FAR as you can, and redrill it, so it doesn't stick out so far!! That thing is what caused most your problems!!! I'm surprised it wasn't picking the front tires off the ground!!! That's WAY eek too much leverage, IMO. Do you have a spare under the frame?

Good suggestions. I pushed the pintle in almost 5 inches, and re-drilled. I think that's about as far as I can push things underneath the truck and still have clearance with the trailer tongue.

I don't carry a spare, so there is plenty of room in between the frame rails. We re-designed the hitch, and Dad finished it up last night. I'll take some pictures this weekend.

I still have to get the frame back into shape, get things bolted together, and do a little bracing up. I don't want to put a LOT of effort into this though, because the '06 is really the rig built to tow HEAVY... it's just that the transmission is out right now.

It's just me but with all that weight I would consider a weight distribution hitch to through some of that weight to the front axles... . <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

That could be a solution, and I've used a WD hitch with the 34' travel trailer. This triple axle uses 8" c-channel for the tongue, and it's fully boxed in. I don't think there would be an easy way to modify it for a WD setup... and I'm not sure I've ever seen a WD setup that can be used with a pintle hitch? Hmmm... .

..... and just IMO(you knew this was coming): You are seriously overusing your single rear axle! Ok, so you had to get it done, but after the hitch is upgraded, what gives next?!?!? Ok, I'll leave you alone, now. Good luck fixing it. <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

You know, that may very well be true... it's just that, i never really think of myself as using my trucks any harder than they were meant for. I mean, I'm never hauling dozers, heavy equipment, sled-pulling, drag racing, etc. I don't do anything commercial or for hire. It's all just in an honest-day's work, hauling the tractor, getting firewood, clearing land, etc... and I don't do it once in a while, it's usually 4 days a week or so. Now I do understand that jumping diesel trucks is not "normal" usage ... but other than that, I just work hard and use the trucks to do the same!

Thanks for the great suggestions... hopefully this weekend she'll be back together, pulling the trailer and earning her keep!

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

Alright, got a little bit done.

So, here's the fix. First, upgrades to the hitch. Believe it or not, the hitch straightened up reasonably well. Probably one of the reasons for the Class V hitch buckling, is that I ground down the outer "lip" some to make clearance for the 8" shackles on the leaf springs. We remedied this by welding a piece of 1 1/2" x 1/4" angle along the inside of the rails. We also added a couple pieces of 1 1/2" square tubing on a diagnal to help support the side rails as well as take some of the torsional load off of the main hitch crossmember.

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Not the best picture, but the other thing I did is to re-drill the hole in the pintle hitch to move it 4 - 5" in... something that is much easier said than done by the way!

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To address the frame issue... we used jacks, a sledgehammer and clamps to get things back into position. We then took a piece of 2" x 1/4" flat bar and laid it on top of the bottom "C" leg of the frame. Dad welded it solid, and plug welded it from the bottom as well through all of the un-used holes.

I had saved some crossmembers from an old frame I scrapped some years back. I decided to weld it in at the very rear of the frame, and then cap the end of the frame with plate. Using a factory crossmember really worked out well. It looks like it should have come that way from the factory, and it really adds support to the rear end. Weight on the hitch is now transferred to the top of the frame, and it would be almost impossible for the lower edge of the frame rail to bend down again.

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As one additional measure of protection, we went between the new crossmember and the center of the hitch with a piece of flat. It is welded to the hitch, but bolted to the crossmember... so the entire hitch can still be removed if necessary.

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--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

Just as a side note...

As part of the frame rail straightening process, I had the passenger side rear of the truck jacked up. I couldn't be happier with how the suspension turned out!!! Although I did a few calculations, I'm somewhat surprised how well things worked.

Here's a shot of the rear lifted. The rear tire is on the ground, but just starting to want to lift.

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For reference, those tires are 35" in diameter... and the top of the tire is drooped completely out of the fender!!

From the rear:

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The shocks in the rear are 14" travel 7100s. At static droop, there is 13 1/8" of shaft showing. I think this is about perfect, as the axle will drop a little further when rolling through whoops, jumping, etc. As I found out during the hitch-bending endeavor, the rear suspension will in fact compress nearly all the way as well... using all but the last 1/2" or so of shaft.

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For the benefit of anyone following this thread, do NOT waste your money on the black Daystar jounce stops as seen below. I obviously pulled them up to more clearly show the shock shaft here. These jouce stops are cracking and splitting, and don't offer hardly any bottom out resistance at all! There is nothing for them to push against when the shock comes against them. Moreover, the durometer of the polywhatever is useless. It can easily be squashed with your hand... much less handle the shock load of a 3/4 ton diesel truck coming off an 8' jump :-laf

--Eric

 

[JKreiss]

Words don't even begin to describe what you were able to accomplish Eric, it's just plain awesome! I've been following this thread since you started, and i never fully under stood what your results meant, until i did the suspension on mine. I just got my new shocks and springs on the 93' (4" Alcans and skyjacker shocks). It rides like a shopping cart but i realize this is just the beginning.



I'm definitely going to need something to keep the rear end glued down and i really need to get these springs broken in. I should have the new brake lines in and bled tonight so i can go beat the heck out of her tomorrow after work. Keep up the good work and thank you for the inspiration! I need to trade in two or three hobbies so i can adopt welding and fabrication

 

[rMetzger]

Love that hitch repair, but I've often wondered, why aren't they made to ride between the framerails, and bolt thru the vertical surfaces, rather than under the bottom lips of the C-channel?

When I couldn't find a pre-made front receiver for my son's Ramcharger, I built his to mount between the rails, and cut a square hole thru the bumper. Mount the front tag on a piece of piano hinge, and voila! A stealth front rec'r!

 

[ENafziger]

Words don't even begin to describe what you were able to accomplish Eric, it's just plain awesome! I've been following this thread since you started, and i never fully under stood what your results meant, until i did the suspension on mine. I just got my new shocks and springs on the 93' (4" Alcans and skyjacker shocks). It rides like a shopping cart but i realize this is just the beginning.

I'm definitely going to need something to keep the rear end glued down and i really need to get these springs broken in. I should have the new brake lines in and bled tonight so i can go beat the heck out of her tomorrow after work. Keep up the good work and thank you for the inspiration! I need to trade in two or three hobbies so i can adopt welding and fabrication<!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Thanks!!! I'd like to see what you've done as well! Hurry up and get out here to Tennessee and we'll go romping around

When I couldn't find a pre-made front receiver for my son's Ramcharger, I built his to mount between the rails, and cut a square hole thru the bumper. Mount the front tag on a piece of piano hinge, and voila! A stealth front rec'r!<!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: ad_showthread_firstpost_sig --><!-- END TEMPLATE: ad_showthread_firstpost_sig --><!-- sig -->

Great idea! I may have to borrow that one from you some day!

I suspect the reason for going below the frame is mostly due to hitch height... and putting it between the frame rails would raise it up another 4 - 6". Of course it could be made to incorporate a drop, but manufacturing and design consistencies between models with tubular frames rather than C channel probably don't merit the effort in their eyes. Besides, for 99% of the people, a regular old Class V hitch is fine!


--Eric

 

[JKreiss]

Sounds good, i'll keep you posted! I planned on putting a thread together once i'm all done. Should be going to paint in a couple weeks. After that i'm pretty much just going to be doing little things here and there.

 

[ENafziger]

Sounds good, i'll keep you posted! I planned on putting a thread together once i'm all done. Should be going to paint in a couple weeks. After that i'm pretty much just going to be doing little things here and there. <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

I'm anxious to see it! I understand about little things... I think I could come up with a hundred little projects right off the top of my head!

On a different subject, I ordered some H4 headlight housings with glass front, and some bi-xenon HID 4300K 3250 lumen lights that just showed up. Hopefully I'll be able to get those installed tonight!


--Eric

 

[pwerwagn]

When I couldn't find a pre-made front receiver for my son's Ramcharger, I built his to mount between the rails, and cut a square hole thru the bumper. Mount the front tag on a piece of piano hinge, and voila! A stealth front rec'r!

I have done the same thing on all of my 70's power wagons, except instead of using a piano hinge go to the junkyard and source some rear license plate gas door covers from a car. They are spring loaded, so they can flip down or up and they dont rattle. I also use them to hide the roller fairleads on my winch's up front and the spring tension makes the cable rub the plate which makes it super easy to spool in the cable and make it follow the right path while providing some tension.



OH... this thread also provoked me to ****can my 4 door conversion. I recently bought 2 1979 ramchargers instead. Im going to build a prerunner 12V/518/205/60/14 bolt ramcharger. Ill start a thread on it...



--Jeff

 

[ENafziger]

Im going to build a prerunner 12V/518/205/60/14 bolt ramcharger. Ill start a thread on it...

I like it! Now get busy and get some pictures up here!

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

Well, yesterday I found out that this suspension will flex enough to separate the front driveshaft. Mine is now in two pieces

 

[HHhuntitall]

Stock driveshaft?!? OH, ya. I never thought you'd keep the stock shaft. You need 10-14" of splines for your setup, I'd guess. Spicer makes some real doozies!! I learned that a long time ago. When the shock I was using as a limiter strap broke, I found the front drive shaft quickly comes out and slaps the frame or transmission, depending on direction of rotation... . lesson learned.

 

[ENafziger]

Stock driveshaft?!? OH, ya. I never thought you'd keep the stock shaft.

Ya, I know it's not up to par with the rest of the build... but, out of money and out of time. Once the house is live-able, and the '06 is back on the road, I'll commence with the '91. 5 again!

For what it's worth, I'm impressed the stock shaft is holding in there. I've jumped the truck a bunch, and done some moderately heavy offroading, and only had the shaft come apart once!

--Eric

 

[kelpupdavelew]

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