In cab controls for airbags

[Kilby]

Boy I hope that's not true. I just ordered Air Lifts bags. I'll make my own brackets if that's the case.

 

[SRadke]

You gain almost 3 inches by removing the rubber stop. Subtract that from the compressed thickness of the bags and the brackets and that's the amount of travel that you loose. From what I could tell looking at a setup on the rig I think we loose about an inch, but I'm unfamiliar with just how much you can compress these airbags. By that I mean what they look like when they're fully compressed.

 

[Kilby]

Maybe the airbags are setup to be in the middle of their travel at ride height, which may not have the same amount of travel as the springs. If that's the case then I'd say a different length airbag would be in order. Selection might be the problem though. <shrug>

 

[Duck]

Well, I'm thoroughly confused now. Why do you guys want to intentionally compress your bags when loaded? Just add more air, right?

Or am I missing the point? Wouldn't be the first time

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

The air bags are not the issue, it is the limited distance from the axle tube to the bottom of the frame.



I just checked and their is 8" from frame mount to the axle unloaded.



I took the bags out and they are at home but I think when I measured them the total compressed height is around 4-1/2" (brackets and all). That leaves you with 3-1/2" of down travel. In stock form you have around 6-7" of down travel, the rubber does compress.



The rear of the truck sits 4" higher in the back then the front when unloaded. So like I said you can't even level the truck out with a load because the bags bottom out.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by Duck

Well, I'm thoroughly confused now. Why do you guys want to intentionally compress your bags when loaded? Just add more air, right?

Or am I missing the point? Wouldn't be the first time

The problem is that you have to leave the back of the truck so high that it changes the way you trailer pulls and I would imagine also chages the weight distribustion on the truck, taking weight off the truck.



Also having not weight on the springs makes for more of what is called axle wrap when pulling heavy loads.

 

[jnlncn59]

Air bags

I had Firestone ride-rite airbags w/in cab controls and gauges on my 92 CTD, it needed them. I live in a 9. 5' camper mounted in the bed, and only take it off when I got my 2001 or when I have painted the camper (4X) or repaired camper bottom (1X). With you having a 4X4 I would be surprised if they would be all that benificial to you. I did go though several types of shocks, OEM's Ranchos, Monroe Magnums, before finding Bilstiens were far superior for me. My truck is level, and rides fine without the air bags and will leave it that way. I bought the entire Firestone set up from JC Whitney, they had the best price, but was still about $400. I ran the air hoses right into the cab and mounted the gauges on the Xmisn hump mounted in black plexiglass. It looked good and worked good for me. Hope this helps.

 

[Duck]

MM, ya, sounds like airbags don't do what you need them to. By nature they take weight off the springs when inflated, and when used properly don't permit much sagging (danger of bottoming out)



For my situation, they're the only way to fly and I highly recommend them to anyone who carries a sizeable load with a leveled (2" in the front) truck.



Sounds like you need stiffer primary leafs, or some custom shackles to the secondary leafs? But then your everyday ride is compromised...

It's the eternal struggle

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

I really am pretty pleased with how the truck rides stock pulling the trialer. Being the traier is 40' long though you get a little bit of hitch slap and some of the bumps are a little harsh with around 4000-5000# of tungue weight.



What my intesion was, that I would beable to load the trailer as normal leveling out the truck and then just put enough air in the bags to raise it maybe 1" so the bags would smooth out some of hte bumps. Well with the way it is I have to raise it way too high. It did ride a little but better with the bags once you get rolling but thier were just to many negative points to live with. So mine will be staying stock in the back.



Eveyone said how much better the air ride is I figured it was worth a try, set up correct I think it would. But Air Lift really messed up on this one in my opinion.

 

[Duck]

have you looked at the Kelderman air ride stuff?



Completely replaces the leafs and everything with a full-air system, like tractor trailers



I'll bet it's pricey, but the cool factor helps offset the $$$.

 

[SRadke]

I think Mopar_Mudder is right on track here. I didn't want to admit it because airbags are suppose to be a "superior system" but the facts here say otherwise. If they were just designed to have the necessary travel they would probably be very nice. I believe to make them work truely correctly I'll have to build some brackets and mount them above the leaf springs like the second gen kits do. With the clamp on GN hitch already installed that may not be so difficult because I can weld right to it. Once again I have to design my own product to make it work right.

-Scott

 

[Kilby]

I just got my Air Lift bags in today. Measuring my truck (2500 4x4), I have approx 7. 75" of space between the frame (after removing the bump stop) and the axle tube. Assembling their kit and measuring it, it's approx 10" tall. Compressing it, it measures approx 5. 50" in height. That's 4. 5" of overall travel. When installing the bags, you have to compress them a bit to get them in. This means you'll have approx 2. 25" of up travel and 2. 25" of down travel.



We're working on making new brackets to sit the bag on top of the spring. However, I think it's gonna be a waste of time really because I'll gain more up travel (compression) but I'll loose down travel (droop).

 

[SRadke]

Yes but the up travel is the imporatant part. With a trailer on I want the back of the pickup to sag 2-3 inches to make it level and have the trailer pull right. If I only have 2. 25 inches in each direction the bags are bottomed out right where I want to be running. The only reason I need the bags to expand above stock ride height is for when the suspension expands on a bump or something. If I mounted the airbags in a fully expanded (or close to it) position at stock ride height would they tear when the suspention expanded? If so perhaps I need a taller airbag?

Here's another off the wall question. How much weight does it take to push a 03 2500 down to touch the rubber stops? As stated previously this is only about 4 inches.

 

[Kilby]

If running the bag at near full extension, I'd be concerned more with a terrible ride when *not* towing or carrying a load. I don't know if it'd rip the bag apart or not honestly. I plan on calling Air Lift to see what they say. I can't imagine it being good for it.



After looking at the bags for the better part of the day, we decided to mount them how Air Lift wants them. I was curious to try them out. I put about 6 lbs in the bags and drove home. The ride quality dropped more than I was hoping for. Mainly from bottoming out. Yeah, I think a longer bag is in order along with a custom set of brackets. We need something that better matches the wheel travel of the stock suspension.

 

[SRadke]

If running the bag at near full extension, I'd be concerned more with a terrible ride when *not* towing or carrying a load.

Can you clarify this for me Kilby? I don't understand why I would get a poor ride from mounting the bags at near full extension. I wouldn't have much air pressure in them so I would expect the ride quality to be similar to stock.



It sounds like we're in agreement about the lack of travel with the current third gen setups. The next free time I get I'm going to pop the inner fenders out and do a little measureing above the leafs. There has got to be a way to make airbags work well on these trucks.

 

[Kilby]

Well, it would be like driving your truck with shocks that are fully extended at ride height. You can compress, but you can't droop. You'll need to do both when driving around believe it or not. You know, like when you drive over an overpass on the freeway and it tries to buck the truck.



I've already pulled my liner out today. Yes, it can be done but the bottom line is, the airbag I have is still limited to 4. 5" of total travel. Again, it's like having a shock with the same travel. I think we need a longer airbag. But what do I know. I don't mfr airbags systems. Heh heh!

 

[SRadke]

I guess I'll have to start shopping for a longer airbag. Kilby, if you come up with a system that works let me know, I'd love to see it.

-Scott

 

[RJ2]

Does the 97 3500 work better for the air lift bags. I called air lift and they more or less talked me out of trying them.

 

[SRadke]

I think the way the airbags mounted in the second generation trucks was adequate. I know several people who have and are using that system and are very happy.



-Scott

 

[DOverton]

Do you have to remove the factory helper springs when installing the air bags? Thanks.





Dallas. .