Injector Advice

[SixSpeed5]

Hey Guys,



New to TDR, loving it so far, been reading and reading... and reading some more. Reason is I just bought a new HPCR truck, and this is my first venture into a non-mechanical diesel.



I am a little worried about injectors. Truck has 188k miles. I don't have much for service history, but this is what I do know:



1. ) Fuel filters & oil every 5K

2. ) No programmers/boxes at any point

3. ) Never (not now either) any issue with starting/running

4. ) Has pump behind filter canister, never any issues with that.



I depend on this truck pretty heavily to get my places, usually hauling my truck to various states for offroading events. I'd rather not experience what its like to have an injector fail, so I want to look at my options.



New injectors from DDP w/ Stage 1 Nozzles would be awesome, but at over $3000, I just don't have that money to spend for a while if it isn't life threatening. I would like to do this eventually, but I want to get some more use out of the truck before I throw tons of money at it. It needs to earn its keep! I do plan on doing an Airdog II 165 pump VERY soon.



I would like to at least have the injectors... cleaned? and tested/inspected. Maybe rebuilt? Who has the best equipment/does the best job on injector servicing? What should I ask for (don't know if there are different levels ie. inspection/partial/total cleaning/rebuilding etc) Lastly, what should I expect to pay for something like this?



Any advice/comments/information would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[cerberusiam]

If its running good, starting good, and mileage is decent don't mess with the injectors. More chance of something going wrong. Either do or have an injector return flow test done to assess the general health, and, a cylinder contribution test as another general check.



Best thing you can do is get a 2 micron filter inserted just before the CP-3, and, run a mixture of Power Service and 2 stroke oil as an additive package.



Cleaning an injector just makes somebody richer and you poorer. Does no functional good you can't do yourself with the additives and working the truck as hard as possible.

 

[TCDiesel]

If its running good, starting good, and mileage is decent don't mess with the injectors. More chance of something going wrong. Either do or have an injector return flow test done to assess the general health, and, a cylinder contribution test as another general check.



Best thing you can do is get a 2 micron filter inserted just before the CP-3, and, run a mixture of Power Service and 2 stroke oil as an additive package.



Cleaning an injector just makes somebody richer and you poorer. Does no functional good you can't do yourself with the additives and working the truck as hard as possible.

X2..... Never remove CR unless problems exists. . Run them until they are tired. . Then if $$$$ allows Buy Genuine NEW.

 

[CKelley1]

you have a 03 or early 04 i will bet the pump has been replaced a couple of times already. and it will fail again. because the filtering was poor you are not going to get many more miles out of the injectors. when the truck get's hard to start after it's warm is when you need to replace them. go with ddp 50 hp ones. go to genosgarage.com and get a taped banjo bolt and the fassddrp 04 pump mount the pump on the frame near the tank cut the line from the tank and plumb the line from the tank to the input of the pump. on the output of the pump insert the following filter setup. also get a oil pressure gauge installation kit from autozone for about $9 get the copper line one and get any 30 psi gauge you like, i get most of mine from ww grangers for about $15 until you het this setup do not change the stock filter. the dirtyer a filter get's the better it filters.

we mount the filters just forward of the fuel tank. we run a fleet of dodges and recently installed one on a 06. there is two bolts through the floor board for a rear seat option at this location. some of our trucks use them others do not. get a 2" x 3" piece of angle iron 6" long. make a card board template that the two bolts and keeper nuts will go through hold the template on the inside against the 2" part and drill the two holes they will be about 5/8" i think and about 3 7/8 " between. center the holes on the 2" and near the edge on the 2" hold the angle iron over the bolts with the 3"part the furtherest away from the tank and drill a 1/4" hole between the two holes, keep drilling through the floor board. now after you mount the filters to the angle iron just simply mount it with a 1/4 grade 8 bolt. this is the only hard part the other items is easy. the total time including building the bracket is about 1 1/2 hours. i will give you napa numbers but they can cross reference to wix or car quest. the two bases are 4770 the water separator pre filter is 3374 the 2 micron filter is 3674. use a 3/8" nipple with about 1/2" space in the middle connect the two bases together observing the in and out. because of this the mounting plate on one filter base is about 1" further out than the other. install two 90* 3/8" barbed fittings on the bases and temporary bolt the angle iron up and hold the filters up to it. make sure everything clears and mark the one base that touches the plate to drill the three holes to mount the filters. next cut the feed fuel line at this location and bend the lines out a little and install 3/8 hose over the lines and to the barbed fittings. i put a small amount of flair on the steel lines. but i do not think it is necessary. Bleed the air out through the stock filter before trying to start it. use a gauge and do not change the filters until you see a four pound drop this should be about every 150,000 miles and the stock filter will never need to be changed.



the dirty one i used cheap steel bases and cut new threads on the inserts on the lathe to fit the filter. your filter base has two inlets and two outlets on each base be careful to connect the nipple between the outlet of the first filter to the inlet of the second. only one of the bases get's the bolts as the offset places the second base about a inch away from the plate. we use to make spacers on the first ones and then decided they were not needed

jason the cp3 will put out full power with input pressure from 22 psi to a minus 5 psi. this is from Bosch recommended speck. Bosch told Chrysler not to go above 5 microns on the filter because of wear. you have a 10 micron filter. the larger cr engines and the 5. 9 industrial use 2 micron filters we run a fleet of dodges and the first 03 we got had all kinds of problems with the injectors. Bosch worked with us to find the problem. once we started using the new filter setup we have never had another problem. i stock a huge amount of filters for my equipment and to start with i used what i had in stock and modified a cheap steel base to accept the filter i wanted to use. over the last 8 years we have refined our selection to two filters and found bases that cost more but do not require lathe work. we have it down now to a one hour total time to build and install cost even with the expensive bases is about $120. you will never have to replace the stock filter and depending where you get your fuel you can get up to 200,000 miles between filter change. i can send old pix of installs before we settled on the two we now use. i have one pix of the new bases on a 03 and when it becomes time to change i will replace with the two new. email me your email address to -- email address removed -- and i will send pix and instructions

these are old pix some date back to 03. most of mine i use a cheap steel base as shown on a new install on a 06 before cleanup but i have to cut new threads on my lathe to fit the filter. the parts listed are plug and play. the pix using the base listed was installed on the 03. none of the pix show the filters used now. we standardized to the two listed in 06. there are pix of where the two bolts are, both the single seat and double seat are shown. a one plate pix home made plate is shown but took all day with mill and lathe to make. we have it down now to one hour total time to build and install and that includes time rounding up parts. to drill the holes i made a template out of cardboard and keep it for the next one. your first one will take about two hours because you will have to keep holding things in place before mounting to make sure of clearance.

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[zzman]

I don't think my injectors are bad yet. 315k smarty jr on level 2.

Pull heavy loads almost always.

Oil change 4 to 7k mi.

Starts great, idles smooth and I don't think it is making oil yet.

I use the Power Service Diesel Clean all the time.

Getting about 21 mpg with truck only no load.



I suggest to get a differant lift pump, that one will not last much longer, when it goes there will probably be no early notice. Changed mine 3 times on the shoulder til I got a FASS fuel pump.

 

[BLNRAY]

377,500mi,21mpg,original injectors,fass 150 pumpand filters.

 

[mattk50]

212,000 original injectors still 21mpg empty

 

[Prairie Dog]

Leave the injectors alone, your only inviting trouble by messing with them unless your doing it for more power. There is no preventative maint. to do to the injectors themselves. If you want to do something for them then install a 2u filter system.

 

[bcbender]

Quick question on this topic, I was considering going to perhaps a glacier 2um filter between the stock hsg and the CP3. Is it possible to do without changing the pump? I have a in tank pump on my 04 (done under warranty) and I currently don't plan to do anything as far as power upgrades, (I may go to a TST in the future). . I have 108000 on the clock, currently getting ~ 17 -18 mpg (with 4:10s doing 70+ (2300 rpm)) and 11 towing @ 18k GCVW @ 70 ~ 75 so I think injectors are ok, just want to keep-em that way.



Thanks B

 

[EDankievitch]

It's a roll of the dice. My in injectors, I had number 4 nozzle crack around 70,000 It ran almost ok but the crack was there getting worse with each mile. My issue was a bucking when coasting down hill with the cruse control set. And my over head MPG meeter was reading really good Mpg like 35 and better as the crack got worse. My oil level never changed. I never used any performance programs on my truck. Now My friends truck, he's run a smarty program he's got a few more miles on his and he's had NO issues to date. My truck started to show that it uses oil after I replaced the injectors. About 1 qt every 2,000 miles. All engines will use oil, if your does not your getting fuel in it..... I'd say to run the truck keep a close eye on your oil level and how the engine runs. If you notice bucking when coasting down hill when using cruse and your oil level does not drop or it starts making oil well then do the injectors. I wouldn't use any thing but Dynomite diesel's stage 1. Your truck's got miles on it and adding power to it now is just going to show you every weak link that is about to fail alot sooner than you want it to.

 

[cerberusiam]

Quick question on this topic, I was considering going to perhaps a glacier 2um filter between the stock hsg and the CP3. Is it possible to do without changing the pump? I have a in tank pump on my 04 (done under warranty) and I currently don't plan to do anything as far as power upgrades, (I may go to a TST in the future). .

Add a fuel pressure gauge and make sure it will hold adequate pressure is the only way to know for sure. Given the pump AND install is good the Glacier filter is big enough that the pressure drop is not bad.



A little extra HP does not affect the fuel pressure that much and different programmers work differently so trial and error is the best route. On my truck once you pass 80 HP added power the FP starts to get too low for my liking under heavy throttle. A lot depends on whether you feel the extra flow is worth the benefit of cooling the pump. The CP-3 only needs 3 psi in the stock lines to adequtely supply fuel to the rail and cool itself. Anything over that is just routed back to the tank.



HPCR injectors run in an extreme environment and, as much as we would like it to NOT be so, they have a finite life span. Tips will crack fo no reason other than use and stress. Bodies the same way. Vibrations will loosen the cross over tubes, rattle the solenoids and generally contribute to stress. Without pulling them and sending them to a business that has very precise measurement tools and processes its hard to define "bad".



Best tools we have to monitor health is a return flow test and cylinder contribution test with a scanner. The data they produce is far from exact but is a decent indicator of general health.

 

[bcbender]

It's a roll of the dice. My in injectors, I had number 4 nozzle crack around 70,000 It ran almost ok but the crack was there getting worse with each mile. My issue was a bucking when coasting down hill with the cruse control set. ]





I had mine in to have this "surging under cruise" checked and the dealer could not find it or reproduce, it doesnt seem to do it now but was occationally doing it before. I adj. the valves a few thousand miles ago and noticed that #4 injector looked different, (like it may have been worked on before) but I have no history. I have a waranty until Jun of next year so if i need to get the nozzels checked, what can a dealer do, My local shop has idiots there I think so I probably have to tell them what and how to check it.