Injector replacement

[Clayboy]

Hey all. While reading the latest issue of TDR, I noticed in the 5. 9 HPCR secition a paragraph with the same title as my post. It mentioned a "cylinder contribution (performance) test. " What is this? Diagnostically (and based off the article), I hope I am correctly assuming this is a gauge for injector health and is a good data point for considering replacement as a preventative measure - correct? Anyway, I own both a first and third gen, and I definitely know more about the first, which is very straightforward to begin with, I just want to expand my knowledge on third gen mechanicals. Also, if there were past TDR issues which went into greater injector detail, I appreciate a vector. Thank you.
Clayboy

 

[hintonc393]

You are correct, it is a diagnostic test that can be performed by the dealer or with EFI live. The ecm will cut out one cylinder at a time and see how much the cylinder is contributing to the running of the engine. The reason that it is very important in a CR is because it is up to the injector to stop fuel flow. With a rail of fuel constantly supplied to the injector at high pressure a bad injector could cause a melted piston in seconds.

 

[hintonc393]

The better the balance of the injectors the better the engine will run, the 6. 7s have a code written on the side of the injector that is used to tell the ecm what the flow rate of that injector is. The S60 class 8 engine has done this for years, I have never seen any noticeable change in an engine after I put the calibration code in.

 

[Clayboy]

Hey, thank you very much. So essentially any well equipped diesel shop should also be able to run the diagnostic. Thanks again for the insight.

 

[leadvilleram]

check out page 5 of this writeup for more related info

 

[cerberusiam]

The cylinder contribution test does not cut out cylinders. It is pure calculation of rpm that each cylinder contributes to ovrall rpm. This gives a rough idea if an injector is over\under fueling in the firing order.

It is one step in diagnosing hard\no start, fuel sonsumption, fuel in the oil, etc, problems.

 

[Bob4x4]

Sorry hintonc393 you are confusing to different test. There is an injector kill test where you can shut down 1 cylinder at a time or the contribution test that shows cylinder contribution as a percent

 

[HBarlow]

Hey, thank you very much. So essentially any well equipped diesel shop should also be able to run the diagnostic. Thanks again for the insight.

No, not true. Only franchised Ram truck dealers who have and use expensive software capable of communicating with the Cummins engine installed in the Ram platform have the capability and not all of them have trained Cummins diesel techs who have a clue.

Private diesel shops have or claim to have the capability of bench testing injectors.

I fully agree with a post in another current thread written by cerberusiam (my apology for agreeing with you cerb, hope it doesn't embarrass you) where he suggested purchase only of new Bosch injectors from a Bosch dealer or TDDiesel for use in our Rams. Todd @ TCDiesel has also stated the same opinion.

I had a cylinder contribution test performed on a previous '06 at a little over 200k miles. The result showed that all injectors and cylinders were performing satisfactorily so I have not purchased replacement injectors. I have, however, read many sad reports in these pages from fellow TDR members who have purchased locally rebuilt injectors, so-called rebuilt injectors from various vendors, performance upgraded injectors, and other options. None of them were satisfactory.

Personally, if I suspected an injector related issue I would have a good dealership with a skilled tech run the cylinder contribution test. If the test showed a failing injector I would buy new OEM Bosch injectors from an authorized dealer. I would not consider anything else.

 

[hintonc393]

The advantage to being rebuilt by Bosch is they have the ability to completely "gut" these injectors from input to output to ensure they are as close to new as possible. The only "Remanufactured" part of these injectors is the housing. All internals are brand new and then reassembled the right way by Bosch. There's no reason to pay enormous costs at the dealer. True Brand New Injectors are not available except for directly on a new truck. If you can get a Brand New Injector, the cost is usually about $800-900 per injector.

This was on "dieselpowerproducts" web site. I wonder where all these "NEW" injectors come from or if all of them are remans.

 

[Mark31]

The cylinder contribution test does not cut out cylinders. It is pure calculation of rpm that each cylinder contributes to ovrall rpm. This gives a rough idea if an injector is over\under fueling in the firing order.



It is one step in diagnosing hard\no start, fuel sonsumption, fuel in the oil, etc, problems.

Hey Cerb! Which tests could be run on which year 3rd gens? Mark

 

[cerberusiam]

True Brand New Injectors are not available except for directly on a new truck. If you can get a Brand New Injector, the cost is usually about $800-900 per injector.

That is what they want you to believe, and, that is a dealer price with 100% markup.

The real truth is most of the Genuine Bosch injectors that come as a reman number are new. Even Bosch's reman services cannot meet the demand as a lot of injectors bodies are bad.

 

[TCDiesel]

I get NEW injectors all the time (100%), here's how it works, the KEY words are Genuine NEW Bosch,Lets Say I order 100 New Genuine Bosch 5. 9 Cummins 505,503. About 60 of them will be New bodies,Internals, the Nut the that holds the Nozzle and Solenoid along with the Bracket (hold down) will be reused, Now 30 of them will have New internals with Reused Bodies That meet NEW spec's, the Rest will be 100% New Solenoid to Nozzles. Just think of the saving by reusing the Nuts and Brackets, it Probably cost $20 to Make NEW, if you make 1 million injectors yearly that's $$$$$$$.



The quality is so tight if I was to replace the injectors in any of MY Diesels, I would just grab 6 out of the 100, I would NOT search thru them looking for only the New (100%),Genuine NEW Bosch are the Key words, and Genuine NEW Bosch are Like NEW.



Never Buy injectors from GM,Ford,RAM, they are house remans buy parts harvesting is My guess, the HPCR is soooo corrupt it pathetic,I go thru this weekly..... Hmmmm Todd can you help Me out My 5. 9 is running poorly, After some questions I find out owner Purchase R/R $1,200. 00 Now he returns them and the sellers says they are Dirty, Your Fault (Owner) Now your really screwed (BC) the sellers has your Cores.



Investigate the Matter and Purchase Genuine NEW Bosch ONLY, buy ONLY form someone who knows what they are talking about, and another word of Caution, STAY away form the marine imposters.

 

[hintonc393]

I see it all the time on ebay, built by Bosch. Well yes, at one point in time all of them were built by Bosch but that does not make them rebuilt by Bosch. I got mine from Buyautoparts.com after several calls to insure that they were in fact rebuilt by Bosch. They were packaged just like the ones in a video put out by thoroughbred diesel on youtube that were Bosch remans, same plastic covers, same box. I feel pretty sure they were the real deal.

I also talked to a guy on ebay selling 50hp injectors that were the stock injectors from a QSB. That sounds like a load to me, as far as I know the industrial engines were never rated higher than the Ram/Cummins engines.

 

[cerberusiam]

Now he returns them and the sellers says they are Dirty, Your Fault (Owner) Now your really screwed (BC) the sellers has your Cores.

Exactly. This happens ALL the time along with comments of contamination, etc. It is a FIGHT to get things fixed once they have your money.

 

[cerberusiam]

Hey Cerb! Which tests could be run on which year 3rd gens? Mark

Manully, injcector and CP-3 return flow. Electronically, cylinder contribution and cylinder cut out. Should be the same for all the CR's. Probably some more in the 6. 7's becuase they have more capabilities.