Injury with Catalyst full, time to give back

[RVTRKN]

There are MANY diffs between the C/C and the p/up... ... ... ... ... .



Bob

The engine is the same so they could start at why the C&C is OK but not the reg truck, seems like a good trouble shooting point to look into. I think driving 2 miles a day is a waste of truck anyway and not Dodges fault altogether.



HBarlow; I'm not the type of person that would file a law suit, but after paying 50K for a truck that does not run right for any reason, I would not hesitate filing one, if it were advised by my attorney.

 

[Bob4x4]

You must not be reading these messages very well. Read closer... we are saying that we are taking our trucks back for service but it isn't getting fixed or it has more problems than it did before.

I am not sure about the lemon laws in other states but in Cali it is fairly simple. If the truck is a lemon follow through and use it. Good luck, Cummins is working on new diag procedures and is starting to build a data base on the 6. 7 issues.



Bob

 

[SBreaux]

Service Tickets

This is the last two work orders:



1/11/08 -Catalytic converter is full, chk and advs. Diag found no stored codes test drove ran good no new flashes to update



1/14/08 - Catalyst full light is on and truck not running right chk and advs. Performed TSB Rev B. 18-19-04-36 11-50-02-91.



I have no idea what all that is, but from 1/11 to 1/14 ?????

 

[Bob4x4]

This is the last two work orders:



1/11/08 -Catalytic converter is full, chk and advs. Diag found no stored codes test drove ran good no new flashes to update



1/14/08 - Catalyst full light is on and truck not running right chk and advs. Performed TSB Rev B. 18-19-04-36 11-50-02-91.



I have no idea what all that is, but from 1/11 to 1/14 ?????

On 1/11 they should have performed a forced regen at the minimum,that is a dealer fault not corporate. The dealer can even get up to 4 gallons of fuel paid for by Dodge when the tsb is performed... ... ... ... ... .....



Bob

 

[catoiler]

Bob, as we all know not all dealers have techs as sharp as you, and they often put techs on a job that have no clue what they are looking for or how to find the right procedure to diagnose them. It is not always corporate at falt rather the dealer in most cases. I think they need more training for the techs and check up on the dealers more to make sure they have the right people in place to get the jobs done right the first time.

 

[Bob4x4]

Bob, as we all know not all dealers have techs as sharp as you, and they often put techs on a job that have no clue what they are looking for or how to find the right procedure to diagnose them. It is not always corporate at falt rather the dealer in most cases. I think they need more training for the techs and check up on the dealers more to make sure they have the right people in place to get the jobs done right the first time.

:-laf A lot of problems at the dealer level are caused by corporate policy,of course some would screw anything up.



Bob

 

[MSicotte]

As a service tech for 17 years in dealerships, I can tell you that training is getting less and less. What they mostly do now is internet training, where the course is read online and a test done afterwards, no trainer, no hands on, no questions. It is exceptionally frustrating trying to fix new and more complex vehicles every year, with less and less information. Lets not forget one key thing here too gentlemen, the ram is is just ONE of Dodge's products. You have techs trying to keep up with 10-12 cars a year that change and are updated annually at least. I'd rather be a doctor - 2 models, no updates. I realize its frustating to be the owner of a 'lemon', but unfortunately the only thing you can do is grin and bear it (unless there is legislation in your state - no such luck here in Canada) until they fix the software, and from everything I've read, its software. There isn't a tech on the planet that can change whats in that new program or even have a clue as to what's in it except for the brief description given in a bulletin. I'm not saying all techs are rocket scientists, but the drivability guys are usually some of the better ones just because of the high tech stuff they deal with everyday. Its frustrating, and I sympathize, but lawyers, yelling, and screaming at the dealer staff isn't going to help. My dad always used to tell me, you get a lot more with honey than vinegar. If you're calm and cool, try to have productive relationship with the SAME advisor everytime, you may be able to get them to call you as soon as the next flash comes in, before you think you need it. They will get these issues ironed out, its just going to take some time.

 

[SBreaux]

This has been a very informative thread. I hope the 5000 plus views sends the right message, to the right people, who have the power to make a difference in possible future buyers.



The consumer has no say when any product comes to market. A bad product, is just that, a bad product till it is made right. Buyers don't own dealerships or choose the products they sell. Consumers don't manufacturer the products. Consumers should not be held accountable for poor design or testing by any manufacturer. It does not matter if it is 1st year, or 100th year.



There has been mention of accepting responsibility for our own actions in this thread. Where lies the manufactures acceptance of their responsibility to the consumer. The consumer pays for products under good faith that the product is good enough to be used for its intended and purchased purpose. Who knowingly would buy anything if they knew it would be at the seller, as often as it is with the owner? Who would buy a sour gallon of milk time and time again from the same manufacturer, no one!



This isn't a bash thread, it is the voice of a loyal group, and good people who have taken their time to send a wake up call to the manufacturer, and if not taken seriously, may never recover from the message being sent to the manufacturer about a currently bad product that is not ready for the buying public. There is a payday on the current design, and the consumer has the power to make the final decision about the manufacturers answer to their problem.

 

[catoiler]

This has been a very informative thread. I hope the 5000 plus views sends the right message, to the right people, who have the power to make a difference in possible future buyers.



The consumer has no say when any product comes to market. A bad product, is just that, a bad product till it is made right. Buyers don't own dealerships or choose the products they sell. Consumers don't manufacturer the products. Consumers should not be held accountable for poor design or testing by any manufacturer. It does not matter if it is 1st year, or 100th year.



There has been mention of accepting responsibility for our own actions in this thread. Where lies the manufactures acceptance of their responsibility to the consumer. The consumer pays for products under good faith that the product is good enough to be used for its intended and purchased purpose. Who knowingly would buy anything if they knew it would be at the seller, as often as it is with the owner? Who would buy a sour gallon of milk time and time again from the same manufacturer, no one!



This isn't a bash thread, it is the voice of a loyal group, and good people who have taken their time to send a wake up call to the manufacturer, and if not taken seriously, may never recover from the message being sent to the manufacturer about a currently bad product that is not ready for the buying public. There is a payday on the current design, and the consumer has the power to make the final decision about the manufacturers answer to their problem.

Very well said!! Hope you and the Mrs are doing better.

 

[HBarlow]

As a service tech for 17 years in dealerships, I can tell you that training is getting less and less. What they mostly do now is internet training, where the course is read online and a test done afterwards, no trainer, no hands on, no questions. It is exceptionally frustrating trying to fix new and more complex vehicles every year, with less and less information. Lets not forget one key thing here too gentlemen, the ram is is just ONE of Dodge's products. You have techs trying to keep up with 10-12 cars a year that change and are updated annually at least. I'd rather be a doctor - 2 models, no updates. I realize its frustating to be the owner of a 'lemon', but unfortunately the only thing you can do is grin and bear it (unless there is legislation in your state - no such luck here in Canada) until they fix the software, and from everything I've read, its software. There isn't a tech on the planet that can change whats in that new program or even have a clue as to what's in it except for the brief description given in a bulletin. I'm not saying all techs are rocket scientists, but the drivability guys are usually some of the better ones just because of the high tech stuff they deal with everyday. Its frustrating, and I sympathize, but lawyers, yelling, and screaming at the dealer staff isn't going to help. My dad always used to tell me, you get a lot more with honey than vinegar. If you're calm and cool, try to have productive relationship with the SAME advisor everytime, you may be able to get them to call you as soon as the next flash comes in, before you think you need it. They will get these issues ironed out, its just going to take some time.

MarcS,



Thanks for a great explanation. It is easy to forget, when your expensive new truck has driveability issues, that the technicians in the dealership are simply fellow humans doing their best to perform their jobs under difficult and challenging terms. Most dealer techs are career mechanics who enjoy maintaining and repairing cars and trucks and take great satisfaction when they are able to diagnose and repair a tricky problem and know that the owner is grateful. It does nobody any good to get angry at them. As you said so well it is almost certainly software programming issues causing the problems and you can't change the computer programming until Cummins develops it and Dodge makes it available.



Your contribution to this thread and to the TDR is helpful for the rest of us who are only consumers to understand and accept when our trucks are less than perfect.



Harvey

 

[RVTRKN]

Thank you Catoiler. Maybe under redhibition, contracts, Magnus-Moss, or some other guideline, since all warranty repairs have to be at no cost to the consumer. The way it looks to me, if the dealer attempts repairs to the vehicle, and then drives the truck 60 miles to test drive it, and having the consumer bear the cost of the fuel and wear and tear to the vehicle, then the manufacture has failed their warranty clause. As the cost of some of the repair has been cast to the consumer, and not paid by DC for their defective product. This does not include loss of use, and income for those that make their living with trucks.



Then there is the "purchased for intended purpose", and the truck fails again, as it now has proven itself unreliable as transportation. The boards, forums, and Chrysler's own TSB line reports the failures, as well as definining should the purchaser fail to complete the warranty repairs, the warranty can be cancelled. This again bears cost on the purchaser. The vehicle is no longer dependable, or can be used for its purchased intent. The manufacturer nevers discloses the manufacturer has produced a resell item than can and does require the consumer to bear cost for some of the repair. DC also does not disclose the vehicle could strand the consumer, with the consumer bearing some of the cost of DC's manufactured product while under warranty repair.



I could go on, but all I really want is what I paid for. I never had a weekly issue with GMC, or the cost. Also when buyers pay more, they expect to get more. It is obvious the Dodge truck is not even 2007 ready given all the flashes and fixes required. Dodge also charged a heavy premium for emissions 2010 ready (BlueTec) engine. Dodge failed that as well since Chrysler is continually having ECM, PCM, TCM and so on just to try and make it a running vehicle with current emissions.



Sorry for the ramble, but given the short time I have owned this Dodge, it has given me more trouble and pain than all the vehicles I have purchased in the last 10 years.

I was looking at my owners manual packet and found this (look at pic) and I remembered this thread and just thought I would give you heads up on were it was when I purchased my truck. Because I ordered the truck, nobody was in it except necessary personnel and was clipped to the steering column and is for customer to remove only. If this was not in your truck when purchased you may have a legit lawsuit. You should be able to read it, but incase you can't, it explains about your emissions system and the need to drive a certain way to clear the "Catalyst full see owners man" on your overhead display. It does direct you to read the owners manual for specifics. Hope this helps, there part number is on the upper left in yellow.

 

[catoiler]

Never was one on or in mine.

 

[Bob4x4]

Never was one on or in mine.

Dealer screw up



Bob

 

[catoiler]

Dealer trade!

 

[TPetrik]

Did you get the recall where they upgrade the software in the ecm and change the o2 sensor?had mine done after the same experiance as you and been fine for over 7000 miles

 

[catoiler]

yep made no differance.

 

[SBreaux]

Thanks Cat,



I never had one in mine either, and was never told anything like this, or even signed anything to this effect.



I did however after the last issue, in January, just days ago, tried to trade my Dodge back to a GMC. I was offered 28k for the truck with 3500 miles. The truck listed at 52k, I paid $43,240. Needless to say I still have my Dodge. Should I have the opportunity to sell my truck or trade out of it, I iwll get something I am more confident in.



Thanks for the info.



Steve

 

[cojhl2]

Although I feel bad for Steve and certaintly his wife, I'll take a chance with what I have to say and hope I don't hurt too many feelings.



Those of you that purchase a big diesel just for milage efficeincy are making a huge mistake.



First you pay way more than you would for an identical equipped gas engine vehicle. No matter what DC or dealer says, these big diesel engines are not "go to work" or "go to school engines". They are built to work, and that means proper warmup, proper driving, and of course proper cooldown.



We all tend to pick on DC but remember, this is a Cummins engine. There are 100's of Cummins engines performing very well all over the world. Cummins has experience in providing power to motor vehicles. When DC makes a decision to use Cummins it comes with an excellent reference.

 

[catoiler]

Yah the motor is cummins but the software is chrysler! well from a mechanic and operators point of view for over 30yrs all internal combustion engine are the same be it a 2000lb toyota or a 80000lb peterbuilt. they require the same operation=intake,compression,power and exhaust. that is unless they are a 2 stroke! their is no truth to the way you state must be used as such. I can tell from reading your posts you are not that familiar with motors. If what you are saying is true then my 63 plymouth with a built 360 can only be driven on the track because it puts out over 500hp. not true. thanks for trying though. not flaming you just informing.

 

[cojhl2]

Yah the motor is cummins but the software is chrysler! well from a mechanic and operators point of view for over 30yrs all internal combustion engine are the same be it a 2000lb toyota or a 80000lb peterbuilt. they require the same operation=intake,compression,power and exhaust. that is unless they are a 2 stroke! their is no truth to the way you state must be used as such. I can tell from reading your posts you are not that familiar with motors. If what you are saying is true then my 63 plymouth with a built 360 can only be driven on the track because it puts out over 500hp. not true. thanks for trying though. not flaming you just informing.

Catoiler, you are taking to extreme what I posted. First I've been around Diesels all my life and I'm 70. I operated Tracklayers since I was 11 all diesel engine equipped.



It is true, all 4cycle recip engines suck, compress, explode, and blow. The difference in engines is the mass of the block and moving parts.



I bet you do not expect your 63Plymoth to run for 5000hrs either.