Interesting reading on Spinner II lube filtering

[Gary - K7GLD]

Check out this thread from "Bob is the oil guy" board:



http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000381

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Jeez Gary,



How clean do you want your oil to be? Your'e pushin your engine oil through a roll of tp! Ain't ya happy with that?!





Gary goes out to his truck to check his oil level and finds his oil is CLEAR! :-laf

 

[Jeepmullet]

Gary, I read that thread last night and couldnt really get a feel for it. People just kept throwing out ridiculous numbers about how they have 10,000,000,004 miles on a spinner and their oil has been clean.



What has been the general concensus of the thread so far?

 

[JApol]

I have a quote from Kasicki Service, the makers of the Spinner II model 25 for $77 under list to my door

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I posted that due to interest in bypass filtering and similar filtering improvements - at least one of our guys here (Mundgyver) is using one, and has a thread on the subject:



http://turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133882



There was enough interest in that thread that I thouught this additional info I pointed to might help...



I was personally interested in the couple of comparisons in filtering ability and oil analysis between the Spinner and the Frantz that I and a number of others here are using for the same purpose.

 

[Boondocker]

I attended a seminar at May Madness last weekend with respected TDR author and expert Dodge diesel mechanic, John Holmes. When asked about oil in our engines, his response was clear and simple. So simple in fact, I made him explain.



He changes oil every 3 months and uses synthetic (after break-in).

I said, what about miles between changes?

He said, yes, every 3 months.

I said, what about super filtration?

He said, filters remove crud. They don't remove acidity that occurs due to condensation, even in synthetics.

I said, that's kind of expensive.

He said, how much did you pay for your truck?

I said, thank you sir.



Moral of story - filtering out crud isn't everything.



I change Delo 400 every 5000 miles. Maybe I'm a bad boy



Neil

 

[bmoeller]

That is where sending oil samples to a lab would come in. They could tell you whether it was OK to use, or to dump it.



Even with the Frantz, I haven't extended my oil change interval. Since the engine is BOMBed pretty good, I haven't stretched it out. If the motor was stock, I may.

 

[amsoilman]

I attended a seminar at May Madness last weekend with respected TDR author and expert Dodge diesel mechanic, John Holmes. When asked about oil in our engines, his response was clear and simple. So simple in fact, I made him explain.



He changes oil every 3 months and uses synthetic (after break-in).

I said, what about miles between changes?

He said, yes, every 3 months.

I said, what about super filtration?

He said, filters remove crud. They don't remove acidity that occurs due to condensation, even in synthetics.

I said, that's kind of expensive.

He said, how much did you pay for your truck?

I said, thank you sir.



Moral of story - filtering out crud isn't everything.



I change Delo 400 every 5000 miles. Maybe I'm a bad boy



Neil

John is correct in telling you Filters do not remove acid, but if you have a good Synthetic oil with highTBN, the acid levels will be much lower over a longer period of time.

I have had two CTD trucks with super filters(Amsoil By-pass) and use their high TBN-12 engine oil, and I have oil analysis each 10,000 miles. The last truck had 150,000 miles and only one oil drain! My current truck has over 55,000 and oil has not been drained since installing at 8,500 miles. Acid levels according to the oil analysis has NEVER been over 3. 98.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[steved]

Acid levels according to the oil analysis has NEVER been over 3. 98.



Wayne

amsoilman

UMM... 3. 98pH (if that is the unit of measure)... DO YOU REALIZE HOW ACID THAT IS????????????????????????



Considering the range is 1 to 14, with 1 being most acid, 7 being neutral, and 14 being most basic... I've had stuff go hazardous waste that was less acidic than that!!!



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Personally, even though I ran my own extended-drain test (20K miles) using Delo 400, and did it very successfully in terms of oil analysis, I do NOT plan extended usage in my truck.



Something inside me just cringes at the sight of dirty oil - regardless of what praise the analyzer might include with his report. But there's certainly nothing WRONG with bypass filtering of the oil even in shorter mileage usage - prior to my extended usage test, I usually ran 5-7K between changes, depending on severity of service.



I now plan 12K miles, or 12 months - whichever comes first - maybe more often if my conscience gets the best of me...

 

[steved]

Personally, even though I ran my own extended-drain test (20K miles) using Delo 400, and did it very successfully in terms of oil analysis, I do NOT plan extended usage in my truck.



Something inside me just cringes at the sight of dirty oil - regardless of what praise the analyzer might include with his report. But there's certainly nothing WRONG with bypass filtering of the oil even in shorter mileage usage - prior to my extended usage test, I usually ran 5-7K between changes, depending on severity of service.



I now plan 12K miles, or 12 months - whichever comes first - maybe more often if my conscience gets the best of me...

That was sort of my plan too... change the bypass filter every 15k, change the oil and main filter every 7500... using Rotella.



I hate dirty oil too... without the bypass the 600s make the oil into sludge by 7500 miles...



steved

 

[Tinman]

UMM... 3. 98pH (if that is the unit of measure)... DO YOU REALIZE HOW ACID THAT IS????????????????????????



Considering the range is 1 to 14, with 1 being most acid, 7 being neutral, and 14 being most basic... I've had stuff go hazardous waste that was less acidic than that!!!



steved

I thought the pH of a soft drink something like 1-2. I could be wrong though. What's an exceptable pH for oil???

 

[steved]

I thought the pH of a soft drink something like 1-2. I could be wrong though. What's an exceptable pH for oil???

Softness is something else entirely... it is the amount of calcium (and other stuff) dissolved in water.



Pure water is 7pH (ideally)... ranges (usually) from 6. 5 to 7. 5pH.



Acid rain is in the vicinity of 4. 5pH to 6. 0pH (depending on the severity)...



4pH is getting pretty acid... I think that is about as acidic as our stomach acid is IIRC... a pH of 3 is getting into stuff that labs use... it will slowly dissolve softer metals like zinc platings...



steved

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Yup SteveD, you got it again!



I got my Blackstone report on my Amsoil synthetic to find that Amsoil is loaded with calcium!



They use it to make the oil less acidic and more alkylie, or neutral.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I attended a seminar at May Madness last weekend with respected TDR author and expert Dodge diesel mechanic, John Holmes. When asked about oil in our engines, his response was clear and simple. So simple in fact, I made him explain.



He changes oil every 3 months and uses synthetic (after break-in).

I said, what about miles between changes?

He said, yes, every 3 months.

I said, what about super filtration?

He said, filters remove crud. They don't remove acidity that occurs due to condensation, even in synthetics.

I said, that's kind of expensive.

He said, how much did you pay for your truck?

I said, thank you sir.



Moral of story - filtering out crud isn't everything.



I change Delo 400 every 5000 miles. Maybe I'm a bad boy



Neil

That's the advantage of some bypass filters like Gary's. You change the element and pour in a quart to recover what you lost in pulling the old filter. You restore (to a degree) your additive package when adding to the sump.

 

[steved]

Yup SteveD, you got it again!



I got my Blackstone report on my Amsoil synthetic to find that Amsoil is loaded with calcium!



They use it to make the oil less acidic and more alkylie, or neutral.

Actually, the calcium is probably from calcium carbonate which is very effective at neutralizing acids (just like most carbonates)... calcium by itself is just an element... high calcium might show that the carbonates have done their job... a high reading of calcium might indicate you have used it up too.



Now that is just a guess, but it makes sense to me...



steved

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I thought that too SteveD,



But I went to BITOG on Gary's behest and pulled a VOA on Amsoil Syn.



The stuff is lousy with calcium!

 

[steved]

I thought that too SteveD,



But I went to BOTOG on Gary's behest and pulled a VOA on Amsoil Syn.



The stuff is lousy with calcium!

Hmmm, interesting...



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Personally, I choose and buy my oil for the basic purpose of properly LUBING my engine - and prefer that what's in it is for THAT basic function - NOT loaded with extra additives included primarily for "extended oil drains", rather than wear reduction...

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Personally, I choose and buy my oil for the basic purpose of properly LUBING my engine - and prefer that what's in it is for THAT basic function - NOT loaded with extra additives included primarily for "extended oil drains", rather than wear reduction...

Yeah, you got the best of BOTH worlds. You have a Frantz. You get those cool micro oil changes and discarding of filter elements saturated with acid and soot and wear metals and silicon and dirt and... ... ...