Is the 600 a dirtier running engine??

[rfoust]

I just got done with the first oil change and my goodness that oil was black and dirty. This is my eighth CTD and I don't ever remember having the oil look this bad so soon. Then did the pressure test after dumping in the required amount of Rotella and the oil is black as coal again!!??? I'm used to the oil looking clean after the pressure test. Good grief.

Why am I getting such black oil so soon? Is it just the break in? Never owned a CTD from break in on---always bought 'em with over 100,000 miles.



Also decided to change the fuel filter and it was incredibly dirty for only 3500 miles. They must let a fair amount of Mexican dirt in these tanks before install.

 

[roperteacher]

I experienced this same thing with my new 04. 5 CTD. In all of my trucks prior, the oil was clean as the day it went in when ready for an oil change. BUT..... I am now on my third oil change with the new truck and it was sooooooooooo much cleaner this time!!! I would agree that it might be a break in issue. My MPG's went up and oil was 3/4 clear when I changed it today (After 3,000 miles)

 

[rfoust]

good news thanks.

I was starting to think Dodge was dumping their top secret black diesel oil in there at the factory.

 

[jimnance]

Although Cummins is not using EGR on this engine, they are dumping in an extra injection of fuel to cool the charge. This will lower the NOX emissions but also results in a less efficient burn and poorer fuel economy. Some of this soot is probably finding it's way into the crankcase. During break in the problem will be worse because the rings haven't seated.



Just wait till they go to cooled EGR in '07. The soot levels will go way up. They had to reformulate diesel lubricating oils (CI) just to handle the higher soot levels produced in the heavy duty engines that are now using EGR.



Best get your CTD's before '07. Most of the folks in the know in the commercial trucking business are planning on accelerating the purchase of equipment to avoid post '07 equipment as long as possible. Even the stuff that meets the '04 NOX emissions is undesirable. Overall, fleets are losing about . 5 MPG. If your mileage was 6. 5 and drops to 6. 0 that is almost a 10% loss in fuel economy. The '07's are expected to be even worse.

 

[klenger]

Cummins raised the oil change interval from 7500 miles to 15,000 miles becasue the engine is supposed to be cleaner.



From the Cummins website:



The Cummins 600's cleaner combustion results in reduced sooting of lubrication oil, allowing Cummins to double the oil change intervals to 15,000 miles for schedule A and 7,500 for schedule B (towing) for all 50 states to help reduce the cost of ownership.



The Cummins 600 Turbo Diesel has a self priming fuel filter as well: this means you can easily restart the engine after routine fuel filter changes (or if you run out of fuel).

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AH YES - the wonderful claims by the manufacturer...



Seems I read somewhere the Ford Powerstroke is the most powerful engine available in trucks like ours, and the Duramax the most reliable...



And Cummins and DC both disclaim ANY knowledge of significant numbers of automatic transmission failures in mid-90's trucks, or lift pump or VP-44 failures in the 24 valve engines...

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I just ran 15,000 miles on 1 oil change on my 305hp HO and the soot level was 0. 7% on my oil analysis report. Ran Amsoil 15W40 and Stratapore filter changing it once at 7000 miles.



It takes awhile before the oil starts looking dark on the dipstick. When I dumped the oil it looked fairly dark but nowhere near coal black.



Vaughn

 

[MartinBlair]

I have 2004 California 235 HP with an EZ Edge on level 4. . 10,000 miles on engine and oil is filthy black at every 2000 miles.

The truck runs awsome and gets great fuel economy.



The oil thing does not make sense. . Marty

 

[DGFoster]

Makes me happy I have a 305/555.

 

[jstrong]

When I had my first oil change done at the dealership the oil still looked almost black. Of course I did not notice this until I got home, I also smelled oil the whole way. When I popped the hood I had no oil cap and nothing else had been done. I made them change the oil again. If they even did it the first time. It stayed clean for about 2,000 miles. My co-worker who has a 305/555. His oil looks like it is new and he has 4,000 miles on his original oil.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It seems mostly to do with how the truck is used - how hard it's driven. Heavier foot, heavier loads and more fueling = more soot into the oil. My '02 will keep the oil very clean running it easy and empty - but gets progressively worse as loads and fuel MPG increase.

 

[CBrittan]

Apparent dirty or blackened oil in diesels between changes, assuming a quality filter is installed, indicates the oil is doing exactly what it is supposed to do: hold solids such as soot in suspension.



You can expect the more fuel you consume between changes results in more soot. Soot blackens oil. Every quality oil including synthetics designed for use in diesel engines will blacken with soot.



I would worry if my oil did not look dirty when time for change.

 

[Jeremiah]

Listening to birds

Originally posted by jimnance





Best get your CTD's before '07. Most of the folks in the know in the commercial trucking business are planning on accelerating the purchase of equipment to avoid post '07 equipment as long as possible. Even the stuff that meets the '04 NOX emissions is undesirable. Overall, fleets are losing about . 5 MPG. If your mileage was 6. 5 and drops to 6. 0 that is almost a 10% loss in fuel economy. The '07's are expected to be even worse.

A little bird in the know from (ahem) a Southern state hinted once that, because more and more emission requirements seemed to be on the horizon, the 2003 engine would become THE engine to have. I listened and I bought. Couldn't be more pleased with what I have. Thanks, little bird!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"the 2003 engine would become THE engine to have. "



HMMMmmmm - they told ME the same thing about the '02 trucks...

 

[Jeremiah]

Forecasting the future

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

"the 2003 engine would become THE engine to have. "



HMMMmmmm - they told ME the same thing about the '02 trucks...

One can never be sure when the requirements will become a reality, only that they WILL become a reality sooner or later. I know the 2004 engines are 50-state compliant, so that tells me the little bird was right on target about the 2003, which is not 50-state compliant in the HO version.



And if the 2007 requirements become a reality, it makes the earlier engines (2002, 2003) even more valuable! Rejoice and be glad. Take care of your truck and hang on to it!

 

[BStoecker]

My oil at about 2800 miles isn't looking very dirty at all on the dipstick and I beat the crap out of it from mile 187 on... Strapped the Jeep and trailer behind and loaded all my tools, parts, and camping gear and took a trip down through the mountains of West Virginia and Maryland.



Now for the question. I am getting close to my first oil change. Should I send a sample out for testing prior to changing the oil just to confirm what is happening in there in the first 3500 miles or so?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Unless you suspect some sort of problem, not much point in oil analysis much before 20,000 miles or so - most seem to agree that around 50,000 miles is the break-in point at which wear metal levels will begin to stabilize...

 

[stevenknapp]

because more and more emission requirements seemed to be on the horizon



Some of my motorcycle friends ***** about the EPA too. Has anyone but me noticed just how good vehicles have become? 240hp LEV minivans? Corvettes that are fast AND get good highway MPG?



Early implementations typically aren't any good, say the 70's for cars, but the understanding of combustion and the technology control it is here. It keeps getting better. And it's sadly driven by the EPA regs. I don't want an '07 truck, but it will be interesting to see what follows.



Or in other words, the road isn't going to be the smoothest. But I still think it goes in a good direction.

 

[Jeremiah]

Right direction

Originally posted by stevenknapp

because more and more emission requirements seemed to be on the horizon



Some of my motorcycle friends ***** about the EPA too. Has anyone but me noticed just how good vehicles have become? 240hp LEV minivans? Corvettes that are fast AND get good highway MPG?



Early implementations typically aren't any good, say the 70's for cars, but the understanding of combustion and the technology control it is here. It keeps getting better. And it's sadly driven by the EPA regs. I don't want an '07 truck, but it will be interesting to see what follows.



Or in other words, the road isn't going to be the smoothest. But I still think it goes in a good direction.

I too agree that it's the right direction. But at my age I don't have time to wait on what follows the transition period.

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by stevenknapp

...

Or in other words, the road isn't going to be the smoothest. But I still think it goes in a good direction.

thats a reasonable way to put it. I think the assertion is that the 2004. 5 is one of those un-smooth sections of the road, and that of course is a reasonable perspective as well.



the thing to keep in mind is that the primary motivator is legal, not technical, in nature -- the new engines are trying to meet emissions standards. that doesn't mean its all bad, as you rightly point out, but it does mean that a zig or a zag in the road may not benefit you in the way that you want. There is still the HP race, and competition among the major three mfgs.



I purchased an early 04 for all the same reasons that the little bird told you. I'm personallly VERY happy that my truck will never be subject to the same emissions regs as the new 4. 5's. to me, the three biggest disadvantages to the 04. 5 are:



1. CAT (well, diesel oxidation catylist, or soot collector)

2. local emissions standards may follow the federal

3. retarded, three-event injection



Note that for the Bomb crowd, the technical limitations will probably be overcome. Note that the 02 fueling boxes that were not street legal didn't seem to bother the buying public . Anyway, CATs can be removed, and lcoal emissions inspections may not be as strict, and some day, a fueling box will probably be developed that will alter the injection event. folks will take off the electronics before heading to the inspection station



that said, there is a compelling argument saying that the trend is not in our favor. Suddenly the 04. 5 appears with a pressure box limintation so that you can't fuel as heavily with a pressure box as you can on a 305. so there's another technical challenge. to me, the biggest concern, however, is (again) legal, not technical. soon, local cities will have inspections and those inspections will have criteria closer and closer to the federal mfg regulations. they will start inspecting for CATs and fueling boxes. the smoke police will grow in numbers and passion.

and of course, the fuel itself will change and we may have to put additives back in like we've done before. who knows, the anti-SUV crowd will start targeting diesel pick-ups.



In short life just gets more difficult for the bomb crowd. Now, if we could only get the feds to regulate fuel economy along with emissions. that way, the dern mfgs couldn't trade one for the other.