just installed big water Sep filter

[Prairie Dog]

Hmmm Proof. . Go check out the Most sophisticated Micro Digital Machine(s) in the World,You won't fine a Donaldson filter on their $500. 000 Machine.

True, I only use Fram on mine.



Sorry Todd, Just Kidding

 

[TCDiesel]

True, I only use Fram on mine.



Sorry Todd, Just Kidding

Boy . . Thats Good. . I have a terrible cold and after laughing so hard My head hurts.

 

[AH64ID]

It's the Beta rating... By the Way you ever heard of NFPA? what motivates their Ratings?. . Beta 2/20/75 - 5/21/23 that means 50% of all 5 Mic ,95% of 21 Mic, 98. 7 % 23 Mic. AE-03AZL... ZAE-03 2/20/75 -2/3/4 50% of 2 Mic,95% of 3 Mic, 98. 7% of all 4 mic. Petroleum Base Fluids, ALL ON 1ST PASS. Look thats with the MAX operating Pressure 250 PSI. . Put 250 PSI on your Filters and see WHAT Happens.

I can read beta ratios, that's not what I can't get you to understand. . It's the method of testing based on the ISO or SAE standard used.

Where do you get the first pass info? Zinga publishes and has told me over the phone they use ISO 16889, that is NOT the first pass. ISO 16889 is defined as "Hydraulic fluid power -- Filters -- Multi-pass method for evaluating filtration performance of a filter element".

J1985 is defined as "Fuel Filter Initial Single-Pass Efficiency Test Method"

The beta ratio is determined by the number of passes allowed per the testing standard, and each standard will have a different result for the same Beta ratio. With the ZAE-03 being a hydraulic fluid filter and designed for a closed system it doesn't matter if it takes 2 or more (I don't know how many ISO 16889 allows, but don't care as it's more than 1 and won't run a filter based on those ratings) passes to get the contaminates out, it DOES matter on a fuel filter because you will ALWAYS have some fuel/contaminates that only get filtered once before it goes thru an injector.

Here is a great example of ISO 16889 vs J1985 (BTW J1985 is what Bosch/Cummin's spec for the HPCR system). The Baldwin BF7633 is rated at 4um absolute (beta 75) on ISO16889 but only 7um absolute J1985; so based on what standard you look it it meets Bosch spec on one rating but not the other.

Other than improving filter life the 250 psi rating means crap on a 10-15 psi system! Filtration is what we are after, not a freak spike in pressure!

Delta pressure is what effects the media for filtration effectiveness, not total pressure.

All Zinga Filters (Zinga is just 1 of the MANY commercial manufactures of Quality filters) All of their testing is done with 105 -250 F oils, Do you really think their ratings will Drop with Diesel at lower Temps?

Ratings are ratings, you need to use single pass fuel filter ratings for fuel systems, and multi-pass ratings for hydraulic systems. It's whey there are multiple ratings out there, each application requires different filtration.

Filter research isn't hard, but it is time consuming and AD/FASS are good examples of why just any filter with a good brand on the label won't do!

A filter rated at 4um absolute on ISO 16889 is NOT as good as a filter rated at 4um absolute on J1985 on the first pass!

Hmmm Proof. . Go check out the Most sophisticated Micro Digital Machine(s) in the World,You won't fine a Donaldson filter on their $500. 000 Machine.

And that proves what?

 

[TCDiesel]

Did You speak to the tech Support At Zinga... Again thier are MANY other Manufactures of Products other Zinga...



http://zinga.com/zImages/SPINON_ZAE.pdf



This Weekend alone I broke Down 3 Pumps All destroyed By contamination 2 of the 3 had these INTERNET so call popular systems... My bank account is all prove I need. Again I will mention this 99% of their time Fuel is good. . Its the 1% you need to be concerned about. Either you can filter the contaminates or design a system or install a filter That DOES not allow any comtimates.



Manufactures have standards, But just like the Building Codes these are Minimums, has anyone seen a 2x4?

 

[Bob4x4]

Interesting... ... ... . they caution not to use on internal combustion engines

 

[TCDiesel]

Interesting... ... ... . they caution not to use on internal combustion engines

Yep. . thats why you Need to install on Auxiliary System (Independent of Direct Injection) or on Auxiliary Tank. The AE-3AZL takes My 16 GPM down to 7 GPM as the filter ages and collects water/Material that GPM drops My current 1. 5 Years old filter is down to 5GPM I will change it out shortly. We install the Filter with 150 raptor and it drops it down to 30GPH. I may cut up my Current filter and Post Picture You will be amazed at the Media.



In the picture I installed the Petro just to check it My Gallon meter showed 12GPM My Zinga is half that ,thats what I call filtration. . The ZE Filter New is 5GPM. I have spun different filters on form time to time, they all had the same results POOR. At the Shop (Stand By 1000 Gallon tank ) the AE filter will plug completely shut. it will get down 2/3 GPM.



If Stephen (DTT) gets the bracket Made We will be going to the Assin Mechanical Pump. I would like to put the electrical Pump behind. Mechanical Pumps Last Years and Never fail, they just get tried.

 

[AH64ID]

Did You speak to the tech Support At Zinga... Again thier are MANY other Manufactures of Products other Zinga...



http://zinga.com/zImages/SPINON_ZAE.pdf

Where does that page say single pass?



You just don't get it do you! ISO 16889 is what Zinga, yes Zinga, uses to get those Beta ratio's! That is NOT, NOT, (get it yet) NOT on the first pass.



What does the top of this page say?



Zinga Industries, Inc.



ISO 16889, same thing their tech support told me a couple years ago when you did the same uneducated trash talk on fuel filters.



ISO 16889 is defined as "Hydraulic fluid power -- Filters -- Multi-pass method for evaluating filtration performance of a filter element".

This Weekend alone I broke Down 3 Pumps All destroyed By contamination 2 of the 3 had these INTERNET so call popular systems... My bank account is all prove I need. Again I will mention this 99% of their time Fuel is good. . Its the 1% you need to be concerned about.

Why beat around the bush, which popular internet systems? AD and FASS? Go back in time a few years and see who lead the outing of their LACK of filtration! AD still doesn't even meet OE spec for f/w separation rates. FASS may or may not depending on the model. I have been calling them out on crappy filtration for years for a REASON!

Either you can filter the contaminates or design a system or install a filter That DOES not allow any comtimates.

You keep saying that, yet based on industrial standards (standards are used to measure the minimums, not establish them) your system is the one that is lacking!

Manufactures have standards, But just like the Building Codes these are Minimums, has anyone seen a 2x4?

Exactly, and how do you know you even meet those minimus when you use a filter that is not tested against the OEM spec (J1985), and is NOT recommended for use on an internal combustion engine.



We know you claim it's not recommended for use on an internal combustion engine because it won't bypass; however, go up a few posts and that theory is proved wrong.



I have already shown you a filter that is 4um absolute (like the ZAE-03) on multi-pass standards; yet is 7um on J1985 single-pass fuel filter standards. If you ignore the standards it exceeds the minimum spec set by Bosch (5um absolute). If you actually look into the ratings you can tell it meets the Dodge (7um absolute)minimum, but not the Bosch one. So in good faith how do you know your ZAE-03 isn't in the same boat? The answer is simple, you DON'T!



You are fighting for good filtration for all the correct reasons, but your stopping short on your research and are failing to see the whole picture.

 

[TCDiesel]

If You say So... . Let's see You have 1 Truck And you have wrapped your entire faith around What you would call The Best (YOU post at how many forums). Here's the facts YOU continually ignore... 99% of the Time You don't need Filtration its the 1% you need to be concerned about. After years of selling CR injection parts 1000s of component's I always ask what type of filtering system is install on vehicle. Last week 2 BRAND NEW sets of CR Injector destroyed by poor Fuel , 2 weeks old 1 customer in WA the other in TX. Both Now are trying to recover form the Lost. They just cannot believe this could happen. I could post pic after pic. So I don't go By ratings to the depths YOU do.



On a personal NOTE who in the hell wants that many filters on their vehicle anyways. they are always in the way, When Engine/Trans Work Need to be Done, not to mention the increased risk in cold -0 gelling. each is his own.

 

[AH64ID]

If You say So... . Let's see You have 1 Truck And you have wrapped your entire faith around What you would call The Best (YOU post at how many forums). Here's the facts YOU continually ignore... 99% of the Time You don't need Filtration its the 1% you need to be concerned about. After years of selling CR injection parts 1000s of component's I always ask what type of filtering system is install on vehicle. Last week 2 BRAND NEW sets of CR Injector destroyed by poor Fuel , 2 weeks old 1 customer in WA the other in TX. Both Now are trying to recover form the Lost. They just cannot believe this could happen. I could post pic after pic. So I don't go By ratings to the depths YOU do.

I am not the one who is saying so. . It's Zinga, ISO 16889, J1985, Bosch, Cummins, etc. . YOU are the one not listening!

I have shown you proof over and over, all you have shown is your opinion on filters. You show photos of failed components but won't list what they use for filtration, so how can one compare or improve? You tell people to use Zinga, yet they don't support the ratings you are trying to give them. The only thing shady in this discussion are your comments. . It goes back to the bypassing filter comment that started this all. Someone had to call you for it, then they posted it with full faith in you and there isn't one bit of evidence to support your claim, just to disprove it.

I realize that fuel is generally clean and that we are protecting against rare occasions, how else would so many people having injectors that last with OEM filtration or even worse as AD/FASS sold (still do) for years!


You may know your stuff on CR components, but you lack in understanding of filtration. . it sounds like you put too much faith in that 99% and never assume that you may do damage the first time thru.

It's black and white on which filters have better ratings, ratings that are developed by an industry standard and not something each filter company does different.

On a personal NOTE who in the hell wants that many filters on their vehicle anyways. they are always in the way, When Engine/Trans Work Need to be Done, not to mention the increased risk in cold -0 gelling. each is his own.

My filters have never been in the way for any work that I have done, not sure how often you have to do major engine/trans work but at the rate I do the possibly of moving a filter is pretty minimal!

Filtration does not plug filters, improper fuel in cold climates does and no matter how many or few filters you have you run the risk with poor filters. I got a batch of untreated fuel and it was the 20um filter that plugged, not the 5 or "2um" one.

Keeping on a personal note, why would you want to run filtration that is not rated, designed, or spec'd for fuel... and then stake your business reputation on it? All you do in threads where you make uneducated comments about filters is discredit your knowledge, and when you plainly make huge mistakes on filters, their ratings, and abilities what do you do with far more expensive components?

 

[TCDiesel]

AD Why don't you just post Your Phone #s that way YOU will Here the Same Story over and Over Again... The only way you are going to convince ME is to Physically contaminate YOUR FUEL... I will BE out west in ID DEC/FEB. its seems the Only Way I am going to convince You is the Same.

 

[AH64ID]

Where does this AD come from? Is it another case of poor attention to detail?

Start posting what filters allowed contaminates thru, because unlike what you post there is ZERO way to stop it all. You can properly prepare yourself for the cleanest fuel and that takes research, something you don't appear to have done despite all the jargon you throw around. . probably why it's misused.

I don't need to contaminate my fuel system, I have done the research and I know what filters do what, I also know what ratings mean what.

The whole point here is you are letting facts interfere with your opinion, not the best practice for someone who has a business in this line of work. You should be able to provide facts to back up your claim. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you have taken yours to the point of providing poor information to people and telling them to ignore the facts.

As I have kinda made it a hobby of mine to search for better filters I would like to see something that is better than J1985 and <3um absolute. . but there has to be substantiating data to go with it.

 

[TCDiesel]

I'm Calling YOU out. . If YOU are NOT willing go that far and risk entire Injection System and possible engine Destruction. . I see you are NOT willing to put that much faith in it. I can understand you Don't have an arsenal of component's that are available to You. I will even cover 50% of Your Injection system cost, if its takes out more then that its Your dime and Time.



My opinion is substantiate with Years of blood and sweat. and I don't believe some bird that flew in the window or ink on Paper or the Broad and spacious road, or Popular trends. Data is just good info until tested.

 

[AH64ID]

I have zero doubt that my filtration system could handle whatever you want to throw at it, but I am not it the testing business. I have full faith in the companies to properly test their filters to an independent industry standard. . You say not to believe the ink on paper, yet you are the first to post the Zinga pdf with it's ratings on there, but then you falsely state that it's a single pass rating. You use that pdf all the time to show how good they are, but won't accept another piece of paper with better ratings (proper ratings for fuel?)

I am sure the Zinga filter works great for you, and you certainly have put enough gallons thru it to test it. My point is that you have been misquoting it's ratings for more than 5 years and also misinforming people about non-Zinga filter specs (ratings, bypass, etc). Everything you have said negatively about non-Zinga filters has black and white ratings to dispute your claims. . yet you will not accept it, but you want us to accept a filter that on paper is inferior?

 

[TCDiesel]

Again If You say SO. Yep YOU put faith in component's YOU are Not willing to test... But You read only what YOU want to listen too. Again Zinga is NOT the Only Manufactures of Quality filters. You have been at the forefront and a good advocate for better filtration for years, In reality we are on the same track ,just going different direction to attain the same Purpose.



Member and guest Decision(s) must be made on adequate filtration My opinion is Just that. Some member will try to persuade you by deception or they own agenda (Cheer-leading) the decision is your's, investigate matters and Make your own Judgment

AD has a great setup, but it's NOT the only answer.



The division between Me and AD : I want a system that Will NOT allow any type of contamination, I want it Stop, not filtered.

 

[AH64ID]

The division between Me and AD : I want a system that Will NOT allow any type of contamination, I want it Stop, not filtered.

I really don't get the AD thing? I have asked several times, do we abbreviate you to Tl?

That comment is the one that gets me the most, you run a hydraulic multi-pass filter. . not a single-pass fuel filter. By design the hydraulic filter relies on repetition to catch it's contaminates (that doesn't stop it, it catches it slowly over time). The design of a hydraulic filter is less media and higher flow, it has to in order to meet the demands of hydraulic systems. Fuel filters are more media and lower flow ratings because you may only get one shot. And aside from water (which is another topic, but I am in agree with you on that one!) you can't stop contaminates, you just have to reduce them to a size that isn't wear causing.

I have also asked you what filtration systems you see the most failures with, but you are not willing to tell us. All you say is the popular internet ones, which ones? Older filters or newer filters? Part numbers would be great!

The FASS HD system uses a hydraulic filter as well, and has great ratings of 3um absolute and 1um at 95%. . but again it's multi-pass and that's not good in a fuel system.

Anyways, we aren't really getting anywhere here... The simple fact is we're both looking for the best filtration possible, and I don't think either of us has an issue on our trucks! In the end all I ask is you stop spreading the BS about ratings and bypasses, because it's just not true.

One thing I haven't seen you mention is what filters are on your truck? I know you use a modified canister mounted pump and a ZAE-03L, but what else?

 

[TCDiesel]

AE-3AZL and factory Fuel Canister filter thats it. I removed the ZAE 6 years ago. I think most members and guest can draw their own conclusion form here. Again and Again their are MANY other filter Makers of Quality Products, Zinga is Just the Company We use for all commercial use Bypass Auxiliary filters. I cannot Promote (Zinga filters) Direct Injection filter on any internal combustion engine. AD figure it out. . Geeeeezeeee

 

[AH64ID]

AE-3AZL and factory Fuel Canister filter thats it. I removed the ZAE 6 years ago. I think most members and guest can draw their own conclusion form here. Again and Again their are MANY other filter Makers of Quality Products, Zinga is Just the Company We use for all commercial use Bypass Auxiliary filters. I cannot Promote (Zinga filters) Direct Injection filter on any internal combustion engine. AD figure it out. . Geeeeezeeee

Quite interesting. You give us a bunch of grief for the filters we run not being adequate and your not even meeting Bosch specs, just Dodge specs.



How long do you get out of the aqua-zorbs? I have considered them in the past, but want to deal with them with the family in the truck. It has been 50K or more miles since I have seen a drop of water in either of my f/w seps (both of which exceed OEM spec's) so I am not overly worried about it. But I still have considered putting one in after my BF1212.

 

[TCDiesel]

7-10-10 and still on Pump, its down to 5/4 GPM so it needs to be changed. When New they Pump 7/8GPM.

 

[TCDiesel]

I will send You 1 to try.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I run a Baldwin F/S filter from OEM tank to AD100 set up with F/S and filter both are fleetguard to OEM filter/sep with pump removed to a Cat 2 mic to cp3 if there were a problem do ya think that it might have shown up by now it's only been on for about 70k but opinions on this website are like A** Holes everybody has one. My Pressure gauge is between the Cat and the CP3. GEE SOMEONE BESIDES ME NEEDS A QUALUDE??? #ad
TRY KNEE REPLACMENT THEY GIVE YOU THE BEST DRUG'S BEFORE AND AFTER THE SURGERY :-laf