K&N Filters, Any proof they are better?

[amsoilman]

If you folks care to see some pictures of my air filtration system on my Dodge, you can go to my web site and see for yourselves. These pictures were taken after 129,000 miles of use.

www.1gr8oil.com/airfiltration.html



Best regards,and have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Don M]

The Amsoil air filter is a good air filter unles you want to increase airflow into your engine over stock numbers. The Amsoil air filter is just a good as the Fleetgaurd if not better than in removing dust and dirt particles.

The higher performance guys should stear clear of the Amsoil filter. Too restrictive.



the chart I posted for airflow in an earlier post is as follows for brand.



First filter is a new Amsoil model number LT-31 (376 CFM)

Second is a K&N used 42,000 miles Model #E-1500 (463 CFM)

Third is a new commonly found filter in most auto parts stores at (508 CFM)

Finally is a new K&N model number E-1500 (887 CFM)



All filters are the same in size and shape and they are the respective part numbers for the application.

The Amsoil filter is very restrictive, even brand new for high performance applications in my opinion. The new K&N is more than two times the airflow in CFM.



Rememeber it takes work to move air in and out of an engine. The easier you make that task the more power and mileage you will see.



Don~

 

[Extreme1]

How much CFM does the engine need? If you remove the fender duct, will the filter minder move (stock filter) on an engine with 300 HP? It doesn't with my Amsoil filter. BUT I didn't check with a stock filter...



And by the way, extended filter drains with 4X oil cost DOES pay off!



And about those torque converters...

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by sdalton

I think someone sould have a poll on who has owned both the

K&N filters and BHAF's, and see who which one they preferred.

I had both K&N's, and now thanks to moparguy, the BHAF. That is the keeper for me. I have to balance my time and budget while maintaining my Ram, two tractors, my wife's Explorer, her POS Nissan Z, couple of trailers and a lot of equipment. Factor in the K&N service kit price plus the time involved. That and the EGT reduction make it a no brainer for me.

 

[RKelly]

Where are you guys buying the bhaf filters? online? local stores?

 

[QRTRHRS]

Mine is the NAPA 2790 for about 40 bucks. Prices vary from low thirties to around 60 depending on who you quote from and which brand you pick. Go back through the BHAF threads for the various numbers/brands.

 

[redneckdr]

Bhaf

ray, the same filter is available in WIX, Baldwin, Donaldson and some others i don't remember. i have all the numbers at the office, but not here at home. if you want all the numbers i could come up with, pm me and expect to wait until Wed, when i get back into the office. .

 

[LarryB]

You can find the #s with a search, I just looked at them this morning.

 

[BigFun]

Some of the numbers for the BHAF:



Fleetguard - AH19037

Donaldson - 105006

NAPA - 2790

Wix - 42790

 

[jeff2]

ALL HIGH FLOWING AIR FILTERS KEEP OUT SMALL CHILDREN!

NOT MUCH ELSE! LOL

THE ANSWER IS SERVICE OFTEN

 

[RKelly]

how about small pets ? there's a few in my neighborhood that... . never mind...

As usual, the people on this site, and the information they possess, amazed me again.

I can't even remember my own name half the time. You guys are good.

Thanks again !

Happy New Year !

Ray

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by jeff2

ALL HIGH FLOWING AIR FILTERS KEEP OUT SMALL CHILDREN!

NOT MUCH ELSE! LOL

THE ANSWER IS SERVICE OFTEN

Quite the contrary, oil type filters filter better as they get dirtier, that's why K&N advises against over servicing. I think a lot of the problems that folks have with K&N and even stock filters with dirt is from over servicing and peeking in the box to see what's going on way too much. If the filter minder doesn't move and there is no dirt in the turbo inlet tube when removed for an oil filter change don't mess with the air filter. K&N recommends service every 50-100k miles depending on your conditions. I haven't even opened my stock airbox with K&N in over 70k miles and don't intend to until the minder says so or I hit 200k. With 170k on the same airbox K&N I have only serviced it once. I live in a very dusty agricultural area. 10k oil analysis silicon levels have remained consistently low. I follow the same advice as on the airfilter housing stickers on my John Deere tractors, "It is counterproductive to remove the filter element unless the service filter light is illuminated". When the light has come on the filter pleats are entirely filled and the dust extends half an inch from the filter. Cleaning or replacing the dirty filter has made absolutely no difference in engine performance even when in that condition. Don't open your air box unless you intend on servicing or replacing the filter, otherwise you're cutting your own throat.



There was a K&N bashing thread here a couple of years ago where you could tell one basher was opening his airbox at least once a week. I thought to myself, "what a twit, this dude deserves to fry his engine. "

 

[Hammer]

All this I do realize is in search of the best flowing filter on the market and what he is looking to run,,Here's my only question and this relates to the users of the BHAF,,After reading a recent post here and its related link to the SETDR forum board,the only thing I can think of is this,after inspection of a BHAF and seeing no inner wire protector that will help keep the filter media in place when it get wet,,Why would anyone chance using it??,,Realizing of course we all do not live in a condition friendly environment(i. e. -no bad weather at all)its a gamble just the same as running any other high flowing air filter,,I agree with illflem on this continued K&N thrash,its those who remove the filter before its proper cleaning time and overoiling that provides MOST of the problems,,I myself have seen K&N's product do the job in conditions that we will never see driving on the road(except offroad and dust storms out west) and in higher hp applications than we have here,,Keeping in mind that Ma Mopar and Cummins both do not support or warrant the use of higher flowing air filtration systems we ALL who use them stand in the "I am my own warranty station" line,STOCK OR MODIFIED engine alike,,Does a "stock owner" who has a failure think for one minute that DC or Cummins will not be able to tell if a poorly filtered engine(via-aftermarket filters) has not had a approved filter on it,,Come on guys,lets get real here,,after a recent trip we(M-D TDR members) had to the Cummins shop and heard the Fleetguard/Cummins rep give his speech about filters and their removal to early(i. e. -opening to check them,banging them on the ground and re-installing them)its quite obvious that some cause their own problems,,His main comment to ALL of us in attendence there was this(and this was included to those who asked about the K&N specifically),was NOT to remove the filter for ANY reason till the filter minder showed signs to,they will never properly seal again and do allow the passage of contaminents when removed that you can not get out after,,To those who remove and "bang"them clean and re-install them,its asking for nothing but problems later,,Just my . 02... .

 

[John_P]

Andy:



Excellent post!!!!! I agree 100% with everything you

"illflem" and some of the other members have already

said. Your statement;... . "I myself have seen K&N's

product do the job in conditions that we will never

see driving on the road" is very accurate. I have

seen the filters come out of the Class 1 trucks in the

Baja 1000 absolutely filthy with everything beyond

them clean with no trace of dirt/dust. My son and

I also use them in his two Yamaha Banshees which

he races on the AMA and Mid-Atlantic ATV Race Circuits

in sometimes VERY dusty/dirty conditions. I NEVER

see ANY dirt or dust beyond the filter!! I used the

K&N filters in my 92' CTD and sold it with 94,000 miles

on it. No engine problems @ anytime. My 96' now

has 144,000 miles on it and has had a K&N filter

in it since day one. No engine problems there either!

Oil analysis samples have always come back normal.

I never have the "film or powder" on my turbo blades

either.



I have said before and will say again that the BIGGEST

problem with the K&N is improper oiling by the user.

It all comes down to what works for the individual

and what product (K&N, Amsoil, BHAF, Stock,etc)

that individual likes the best.



----------

John_P



This IS and will CONTINUE to be controversial subject

on this website.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by John_P



It all comes down to what works for the individual

and what product (K&N, Amsoil, BHAF, Stock,etc)

that individual likes the best.



----------

John_P



This IS and will CONTINUE to be controversial subject

on this website.

Well said John_P. This topic is on par with Amsoil both in the engine and the manual transmission. Most of the changes we do are both a calculated risk and an educated guess given the miles on our odometer, DC and our wallet.



IMHO, the K&N for the stock box is not worth the money. The RE-880 is if your looking for lower EGT's. As to the amount of oil vs chance of BHAF deteriorating, a couple of turns with a 5/16" nutdriver and I can inspect my BHAF anyday, everyday with no regard to disturbing anything. Also, the ability to quickly pull the filter speeds up my oil changes by allowing better oil filter access while checking the turbo inlet. I don't run snowbanks on purpose so that is not an issue. If it does not work for you fine. Get on with your life. Use what you like.

 

[Wirenut]

I need a filter, if all these are pretty good, I wonder which ones the cheapest? Would someone who's current on the prices let me know in a PM? Thanks,

Burkey

 

[sdalton]

I do wish to add a little to what I have said before, and comment on what has been said after.



Several have intimated that those that have been having problems with the sealing of K&N products are those who cant leave the box closed. I agree that this could be a problem.

I put mine in for about 24,000 miles before taking it out to inspect it well. I then siliconed around the edges. this did not help. Dust still enered and it stuck to the oil on the turbo blades.

The inside of the tube going to the turbo had very little crud on it. The TURBO BLADES were almost black with the oily dirty crud. .



Several suggest that the filter was over oiled. If that was true, then the factory did this, because they were the ones that sent it to me oiled.



The fact remains that dirt got through this filter and I would never trust another K&N on an $8000 engine. Is this low cost filter really worth the risk?

I remember a long while back some members trying to defend Fram oil filters. I think the collective common sense advise given to those people using them changed their tune. Why doesnt it work here?

If you want proof as to the ability of a K&N air filter to keep out dust, just hold one up to a light. When I did I saw a lot of light getting through.

I for one saw the light (pun intended) and went with a Donaldson BHAF.

 

[Hammer]

Wirenut,,Check your email,,I sent you one earlier today about your request,,Let me know what you want to do,,I have myself learned the hard way about the "I am my own warranty station" first hand so if there is a way that my warranty station can reduce its work load I'll find it,,In all the years of rebuilding our race engines(sprint car/dirt latemodels) and all the dirt the K&N's sucked into the filter,I have seen NO air filter related damages and no failures,,I have had others,like oil filters collapsing or their media coming loose and clogging oil passage ways causing major engine failures,,I'm not going to disagree with what you have seen or done to seal the filter problem KDalton,but,after rereading your posts it seems to me like there may have been something else wrong(air box deformed from factory or the K&n fit was not correct from factory),,No company is perfect(DC or K&N) and mistakes happen(my TWO KDP's are a good example) so one would have figured you sent it back and maybe even looked at another air box too,,You handled it the way you needed too and I commend you,it was your choice,,This will always be a hot topic due to the influences some have and some try,,Somewhere else I seen this and it fits well here too,You sort thru all the BS and form you own opinion then let the rest sort thru yours,,My opinion is that K&N has performed flawlessly in the conditions I've asked it to and it matters not to me what DC and Cummins claims. . I am my own warranty station... . I will not be persuaded by their scare tatics,but,I'll be persuaded by real world tests and data,,Seems everyone on these hot topics(oil brands. filters-air,oil,gear lubes) always come back with the scare tatics and controlled test data,but,NEVER real world everyday use data,,Just a ramble... .

P. S. -I do of course know it was not my truck ,BUT,I'll ask anyway,,Why would you even think of trying to seal a improper fit with silicone in an area that with the high flow cfm's could have easily led to the foriegn material being sucked into the turbo and led to an early demise???,,One other minor thing,where's the BHAF users that praised the part ,when I looked over Ramifid's post about its looks after a recent snowstorm,,Caked and wet,seen no negative posts... . Make me nervous... Just a thought

 

['956Wheel]

If you can get down to 5 microns and have inner and outer steel mesh, polyester media, (waterproof), a foam pre-filter, 750 CFM, little smoke and pull the minder down just like stock with 34# boost... . and do it dry... what more do you want... an egg in your beer perhaps.



Nobody seems to address the micron rating of their filter of choice... it would seem this is thee important consideration. . 0002" (5 micron) is overkill if anything.



These threads are a real kick, we are all rocket scientists but often miss the mark, but then a fellow member is kind enough to tell us what we seemingly did not know... oil analysis anyone?



Mike

 

[illflem]

I like the idea of the BHAF also and have considered using one, but talk about damage to a $8000 engine,the BHAF's track record is what, two months!!! When I checked into the applications for the Donaldson BHAF I was told it was mainly used for large stationary engines in conjunction with a safety inner filter. The way we run our engines is a far cry from an engine that has two throttle settings, idle and run, and sits on a slab in an enclosed building. I'm waiting to see when and if pieces of one get sucked into a turbo and the mad dash to remove them hits before I try one. 2¢