Know Your Surroundings!

[jthorpe]

I'd give up now CH. If you don't get it by now, you never will.

 

[Chad Sheets]

I dont get it either Christmas and surroundings? I'll take snow for $1000 Alex. Its getting into the 40's here, how about where you guys are at? I say snow before Veterans day this year in my neck of the woods. I remember a few times it snowed before Holloween.



One time in High School me and some guys were out being typical 16 year old screw offs on Holloween night. It was snowing. Ended up confiscating several pumpkins and smashing them. We had to know our surroundings in order to sneak on the porches, make a get a way, and not slip or fall or leave any incriminating tracks in the snow. Right about the time we were calling it a night, we saw the mother of all pumpkins, must have been 40 lbs, and 4 foot tall! Only problem was it was on this old mans porch who was known for his drinking and barking at the moon. Think of Ernest T Bass and Otis from Mayberry combined into one with a splash of the guy who did Ned a favor in Deliverance.



We just had to get it. We got it alright, one guy slipped and fell making all kinds of noise! Right when the other 3 of us were grabbing super pumpkin, out comes this grizly Adams looking dude with flannel underwear half naked firing a Dirty Harry look a like screaming about gremlins As Lynyrd Skynyrd sang it "you could hear me screamin a mile away as I was headin on out the door"!



The next year we got some pay back old Ernest T Bass. A guy made some pumpkin slingshot device from old inertubes and 3 inch pipe. We fired on the guys perimeter with a few dozen pumpkins from the near by woods. We had a couple sharp shooters in the ditch with bows that put a few arrows through his pumpkin that year. Sure enough, he came out half naked and drunk again shooting what sounded like a cannon! It didnt snow that year, but we made sure of our surroundings when it came time to go!

 

[Max340]

CH, you act as if no one else got off the subject of the thread.



Contributed to the State Troopers? What a great charity to support!!!



Dribbling? I was unaware this was basketball. You all seem so concerned with the country's future, but are unwilling to do anything until disaster befalls us. Perhaps if you looked around, you would find there are those who have had the same situations without a national tragedy.



Done with me? Typical response from those who do not wish to address a point for which they have no reasonable answer. The more of you unthinking and unaccepting individuals who are done with me, the better. I asked you to read and think; instead you choose to accuse and close your mind. Then you wonder why attitudes such as the one that fosters terrorism against the U. S. happens. And even as you wonder, you shut out the reasons why.



Chad, its no surprise you don't get it, you don't read it. You probably won't read or understand this time either. You and others are highly concerned about the tragedy now. But each year, and this year as well, Christmas will roll in, and suddenly all you will think about is your own family. I'd bet that even this year, the families of the victims will be almost a forgotten memory. Just like the thousands of families who, every other year, have suffered a similar loss. No one jumps up and starts helping them, and no one will this year either.



But we are all terribly concerned with our own welfare, and how we (HAH! We??? More like our kids in our military, our government while we sit in relative safety at home) must avenge this loss. No one will look at the personal loss of the families around them who, victims of terror, or a drunk driver, or some other tragedy, will have a hard time having a Merry Christmas. But then, all you want is a cut in your taxes, a bit of foreign blood, and a victory. Pretty selfish if ya ask me.



BTW, ya better check with Crazy Horse before you go off topic again, he seems concerned about that these days.

 

[Chad Sheets]

I try my best to help, probably not as much as I should/could. I start in early October soliciting for donations, from everyday things like Jackets, gist certificates, small jewelry, free oil changes, autographed pictures from race car drivers, autographed footballs from the NFL, basketballs from the NBA, just all kinds of neat stuff. Usually I have a pretty neat collection come Christmas time that gets better each year thanks to more and more new contacts in the high profile arena. One year I got a ladies diamond ring to give out valued at over $1500. The person that won it felt awful because all he donated was a few hot wheels. The next year he had a truck load of toys for me.



What I then do is make and decorate huge toy boxes and distribute them all over town and at work. I average about $250 of my own $$$ spent each time I do this. We go off the honor system to win prizes. On each toy box is a "Santa's helper book".

You drop a new toy in, and sign the book. The signatures are then put in a big box and me and my friends with the Toys for Tots program pull names and give things away until everything is gone. People love it. I have done this since I was in that military thing, only then I would take a cab on Christmas Eve to the children hospitals in my dress blues with stuffed animals and things paid for out of my own pocket while living on about $10,000 a year. No big deal, the kids loved it, and so did I. The kids all think Santa is escorted by Marines on his trip around the World.



Now I have counted more than 10,000 gifts in about 7 years now... . I go off the signatures that I keep, and some people dont even bother to sign the book.



Sorry I have not done as much as I could. Perhaps you can get with me this year and donate a few months of your time and help me, I could sure use it this year, because I want to include mentally challenged kids that are in their teens but still have the minds of 4 year olds. Should be a challenge, but I will do my best as I always do with this project. Good thing I dont read all your post... I do try to ignore you the best I can. But, I will be more than happy see what you have to bring to the table if you would like to help me out. I am sure a smart guy like you has organized much larger and important things than this, so some thing like this should be a walk in the park for an old pro like yourself. Heck, I bet you might even know a way to get all this done in a couple weeks time instead of 13 weeks time. Whenever you are ready, look me up, ol' buddy. I think I got it, contary to your opinion.



I still would like a tax break, and I am still concerned over small personal things like stone in my driveway, a lift in the barn, waxing my car etc. I hope still wanting to do those things doesn't make me a bad person like some of the others on here. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

 

[Max340]

Yer not very good at ignoring Chad. Impressive list you have. How do you still have time to work with all that you do?



This year I have a whole bunch of small scale projects going.



The kids in the church youth group I advise are holding a carwash to benefit a young dialysis patient. Hopefully we hit indian summer with the date we set. I got the local Domino's owner to allow us to use his parking lot, and he is throwing in fund raiser giveaway stuff as well as feeding the bunch of kids that are washing cars. He also said he would provide all the water we could use.



There are a couple of us that deliver all unsold donuts from Dunkin to the ER.



The kids in the youth group don't know it yet, but they are gonna be raffling off a fairly well equipped BMX bike this Christmas to benefit a local charity. It may be more if I can get a few donations from various places.



Then there are the kids that have one parent who doesn't care about them and the other is working two jobs to support the family because parent #1 left and has never been heard from again. I try to get them out and shopping for their family and getting mostly small stuff, but its important to them. More important, its them picking something they really want to give.



But what takes the most time is the sitting and listening to them, helping them deal with the confusion they feel in a season devoted to family, when half the family has abandoned them. And then being someone they can go to when things aren't going so well, even if its not Christmastime anymore.



And that was the point Chad. Maybe you do a lot around Christmas. But do you see the people who do not get included in the massive giveaways? Or the kids who want someone to listen, more than they want a toy truck or doll? And do you do that year round? Thats the point Chad.

 

[Chad Sheets]

Its a pretty messed up deal with kids. I'm a firm believer in not breeding if you cant support them, and to be honest most kids get on my nerves pretty fast. But then again, it is Christmas, and we all know what its like to believe Santa is coming to visit. Probably some of the best memories people have. I know enjoy thinking about it, and I want everyone to be able to do that as they go through life and all its twisted little roads.



The stories are awful sometimes. Kids getting cans of soup for Christmas, one kid would stay inside embarased every year during Christmas break because he would get used socks and didny want the other kids to make fun of him. Had one kid ask me once if I could get her daddy out of jail for Christmas. Well, I did. I used up one of my favors with the Sheriff who called the Judge and got him OR'd (ordered release)... fu**ing bum was back in for not paying child support a month later. Boy did I feel like a idiot.



Most of the kids have parents who are just lazy bums not wanting to work and spending all the cash on cigarets and booze, but like I said, its not the kids fault.



Good luck with your carwash. Try to get some small town business people to help with a rafle or something. I have found that the small business people are easier to get things from compared to the Wal-Mart size corporations especialy if the persons being helped are from the area. A nice letter to the editor in your local paper works great for getting help also. I guess everyone in those big places are afraid they will get in trouble for giving something away.



I might have to get help from some other people this year. I have the new house thing going and will need to get moved in during most of the months I need to do the toy gig. Might recruit my little nephew and get his nintindo playing lazy a$$ out from his mothers wing and give him a little taste of work for a good cause. Good luck anyway.

 

[John Berger]

Round and round she goes....

where she stops, no one knows.



Max, you accuse me of not understanding what you posted. I read your posts thoroughly and I think... no, I know I understand them. I just don't agree with your approach to this particular thread and I stated that in my last post. Please leave the assignations of ignorance out of the topic. More on that in a bit. You tell me I miss your points, I say I got them clearly. You will probably see the apple in my hand and call it an orange. You say if I don't want to debate, I shouldn't have posted to this thread. What we are doing is not debating anymore, it's called running around in circles. You will always see the sky being blue and I won't or vice versa. I bow out of topics after I have had my say, even if it isn't the last word. It's there to be read and you all get to make your own decision about what I post and therefore, by extension, what type of person you think I am. That's fine, but I will not tolerate being called ignorant when my posts most definitely suggest otherwise. Disagreement does not equal ignorance. The following is one of the points you made early in this thread:

~Germany's Third Reich rose from a country that had been devastated by WW1.

~Our country has just had its first large scale attack on its mainland... devastation.



You lost me there. And I addressed this in an earlier post, despite your malicious accusations of word twisting, ignorance and not reading what you posted. The Treaty of Versailles was imposed upon Germany by the League of Nations, which was Woodrow Wilson's utopian pipe dream cum reality. It was not an attack on Germany, rather the spoils of war by the victors. You don't have to like it, but characterizing it as an attack is absurd. Call it the law of unintended consequences and leave it at that. There are people in Germany who, although for different reasons than you bring forth here, would like to look at what the Nazi's did as being justified because of what happened at the end of WWI. They are still active today. You may want to choose your arguments carefully.



Crazy Horse & Chad Sheets - I wouldn't explain anything you do. You're just being setup for more putdowns. What was it that Dale Earnhardt used to say? Oh, yeah - "Never complain, never explain"



jthorpe, good to hear from you. I hope all things are well with you and yours. It's been awhile since I've seen you post. All ubiquitousness aside, I must say that the most galling thing Max and some of the others, you included, have done is say that those of us who advocate the position that Crazy Horse took to start this post, don't understand your points, therefore we are ignorant, or worse - we are purposely ignorant. Purposeful ignorance is exactly not what it conveys. It is willfully ignoring the obvious to reach an end through whatever means one would feel are necessary. That is a mindset reserved for the Stalins and Hitlers of the world. Max comes dangerously close to suggesting that there are those of us on this board who, because we advocate security and vigilance, will ignore every decent code of conduct and because of our prejudices and subsequent behaviour cause ourselves and our country to end up in that most horrible of hells reserved for the aforementioned tyrants and any who are like them. I remind everyone who reads this post that Max introduced that line of thinking into this thread, not those of us who are now defending ourselves. Jthorpe, you did not say that, but you conveyed the impression that you agree with Max, who did say things of that nature. I completely and perfectly understand your points. What I do not understand is the premise. I do not know why Max continues to drive his point home, when he has basically said the same thing as Crazy Horse. Max likes to argue and goad people into debat. . uh er circle jerks... sorry! I almost Maxed out there anyway where was I , oh, circle jerks. That's all this has turned into and I just don't want to participate in a continued struggle of one-upsmanship. Just watch how he responds to this post, especially because I went back on my word about not posting on this thread anymore. Max likes to argue. That's all I know about him, because that's all I've seen on this board. I will never call him ignorant, as he did me. I will never tell him to shut up and go away, even if I don't agree with him or like him. I don't know whether I like him or dislike him, because I don't know him. There is, however, a point of diminishing returns and that is why I chose to end my participation in this thread (until this post , that is). I countered his points with what I believe is un-assailable logic and his response is typical: I don't understand or I must not have read his posts. But he doesn't stop there, he goes on to say that I prefer to remain ignorant, and the only conclusion that I can reach is that he feels this way because I don't see his posts the way he intended me to see them. Translation: I don't see things his way. I don't know about other TDR members, but I quickly grow weary for intelligent conversation once I hear or read someone make comments to me in such a haughty manner. Such comments convey an air of superiority, both morally and intellectually. To me that is exactly the type of attitude that Max says he is trying to prevent us (myself, Crazy Horse and his wife, my wife and the others) from adopting. Max doesn't have to like what I say, but it is intellectually dishonest for anyone to read my responses to him and then call me ignorant. I don't know how to explain it any better than that. And I don't see how that is ubiquitous. So without further adieu, I bow out of this discussion... . I think... . yeah, I'm outta here. May you all always have fair winds and following seas - and - Watch the ice!





P. S. This post has been edited in the interests of brevity and readability. The names have not been changed to protect the innocent.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Chad - just sent you a PM. Kinda off topic - no need to get a beer before reading



Brian

 

[Max340]

Chad, we ahve the same problem with the adults here, it seems universal. I agree, I have often wondered if having a license to breed would be a better idea than a marriage license, too bad its a violation of the Constitution to do so.



The carwash should do well, if we can get publicity it would be great. I talked to the owner of the Dominos today, he was cranked up about it, and I'd bet he becomes one of the contributors of cash for a clean vehicle.



I figure to get the owners of a furniture store in on the raffle, that will draw a larger "audience" than a BMX bike, and we can get the kids really cranked up about it. Something for them, something for Mom and Dad type of thing. Getting kids away from the video games is a major accomplishment most days, but hopefully I can get it done.



Was thinking about your idea on including the retarded kids. Its hard to place them as far as the appropriate gift. You may find that something other than toys are better gifts; these kids sometimes have interesting quirks that put them in a real different stage than kids, even retarded kids. Not sure what age they are, but it may be something that you have to specifically arrange for each child, due to the specific nature of how it affects each child. Sometimes they key in to sports teams more than normal kids do, I know a couple of the "slow" kids that graduated from the local school are easy to spot on the street, the ALWAYS have the school colors on their jackets or shirts. Good luck on that one, its going to take a bunch of time to plan it out.



John, the problem is, you claim I said one thing, then restate my point. I have never called you ignorant, I simply think that since you claim I said one thing, and then repeat almost exactly the same thing, you aren't reading what I said very well.



As to the Treaty of Versailles as an attack, it is NOT the point I was making. Please note I used the word "devastation" in both sides of the parallel. THAT is the key to the comparison, NOT how the devastation occurred. I did not even mention the Treaty of Versailles in the quote you used; it wasn't the point.



Justification of Germany's actions in light of the circumstances was not the point. In fact, it was quite the opposite, which you seem to have missed entirely. The point was to say that those actions were a mistake, and that since we were in the same general circumstances, faced with much the same choices, we should be careful to choose wisely. Many opinions in here are suggesting cutting the rights as written in the Constitution. This is one of the choices made by Germans that led to the rise of the Third Reich. The results are plain to see. I drew the comparison to show that taking those suggestions seriously has been proven by history to be a bad thing. In no way did I imply we should follow Germany's choices, in fact, quite the opposite. I said so in so many words. Somehow, you missed that part.



Frankly, if anyone is placing judgement, it is those of you who claim I said one thing, and have no proof of it. I never called anyone ignorant, I simply said you seem to have missed my points. I base that on the words you use to describe my position, which are clearly in error. How much more simple does it get? I am labelled as something I am not. The reply to my words clearly attacks me on something I said in those words was NOT true of me, but yet I am the one who is acting in a "haughty" manner? I never labelled anyone, I merely said some of the ideas were not consistant with our Constitution and looked like words and ideals that cropped up during the 1930's in Germany. You rebutted my statement by differing on the type of attack, which was not the point. As such, it is not a stretch to say you missed the point.

 

[John Berger]

Like I said Max, round and round we go. Let's call a truce on this one and move on.

 

[Papa Joe]

How did we go from 'cast a wary eye and stay alert' to Nazi Germany? I'd better re-read this one... ...

 

[Max340]

Originally posted by Papa Joe

How did we go from 'cast a wary eye and stay alert' to Nazi Germany? I'd better re-read this one... ...

For two nations in similar circumstance, there was/is a choice. We can indeed do what you say, cast a wary eye and stay alert, or we can do what I see a number of posters suggesting... . change the laws to eliminate free speech (someone suggested outlawing free speech via protesting), report anyone for doing anything odd(someone suggested it was a good idea to report suspicious activity of certain races) and generally become paranoid and start blaming a specific segment of the population for the problems of our society.



Germany decided to rewrite laws and stop free speech and free elections, and blamed nearly all the nations ills on one segment of society.



I suggested that we need to be aware of that possibility and avoid it, lest we suffer the same consequences. I noted that our government seems to be not only structured better, but is acting with more consideration and thought, despite some of the suggestions I have seen here.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Not in this thread!



Quote

. . . change the laws to eliminate free speech (someone suggested outlawing free speech via protesting), report anyone for doing anything odd(someone suggested it was a good idea to report suspicious activity of certain races) and generally become paranoid and start blaming a specific segment of the population for the problems of our society. End of Quote





No one posted these "suggestions" in this thread except you 340!

 

[John Berger]

Crazy Horse is right, Max

I just re-read all of the posts to this thread. The subject of speech restriction was introduced by you. I believe you may be referring to the "Violence Never Solves Anything" thread. A discussion of constitutional freedoms is taking place there, including the right to free speech.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Haven't re-read this thread or the "know your surroundings" thread but I for one have confused the two threads and had to verify what was said where.



Both threads have been 'enlightening' to say the least - keep up the good discussion.



Brian

 

[Max340]

CH, perhaps not in this thread, but on this message board, it was suggested that protesters should be outlawed. Last I checked, both threads had the same audience and contributors.



John, that is correct. Given the same audience and contributors to both threads, I figured that those reading could understand the reference. It seems I was wrong about that. Since the topics were very close in the range of ideas being dicussed, it did not seem to make a difference where the info came from, as long as the answer was to the same thread as the post to which it was a reply.





Perhaps that is why many seem to have incorrectly assumed or stated my position erroneously in their posts.

 

[Crazy Horse]

8 months later! Maybe the meaning of this post has sunk in! People are watching their surroundings. Notice was taken. Se post from 5/21; "Mid Easterners Taking Pictures of Schools". GOOD! Pass the word and keep an eye out.

 

[rrausch]

I report certain types of suspicious activity to the Police. I don't call 911 for loud parties or drunks. I probably call the Police 3-4 times a year. In my experience they are always very grateful for a "citizen" to get involved. The last guy I reported was a middle-eastern looking guy riding a bicycle down an alley at night. Why did I report him? Because he was riding so slowly, about 10:30 p. m. , not watching where he was going, rather he was casing garages, much more interested in what was in the garages than in where he was going. I reported him. Cops nabbed him. Good.



We need good folks who keep their eyes open for criminal activity or suspicious activity. You can call in anonymous tips in many places if you want.

In my experience the Police are very good at sifting out nut-case calls from the real thing. I trust the Cops! I've know many, many good lawmen. There a huge number of dedicated, life-risking un-sung heros out there in every Police Dept. in the country.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

For all you folks that have lived a sheltered life... .



Pay attention to the first message posted in this thread.



I have been personally robbed at gun point, placed face down on a concrete floor, had my hands and feet tied, and then had the robber place the gun in the back of my head and pull the trigger. Only by the grace of God am I still here today!



I do not go into a place of business, restaurant, etc. without scoping out the place and people. Take note of exits, dead ends, etc. You never know what you might have to confront.



Do you remember Luby's Cafeteria shooting and murders?



A few weeks after being robbed, I went into a liquor store one evening in Memphis, TN. There were only two other people in the store besides the clerk. Two men (I will not tell you their race) walked in and acted very suspiciously to me. I exited via the front door and made my way to my vehicle. The two men watched me every now and then and eventually exited the store and left without making a purchase. The clerk asked me if I was nervous about something. I said yes. He was too. He had his weapon ready behind the counter. Who knows what could have happened if I had not left?



Know your surroundings. Know your neighbors. Take notice of suspicious activity. Let yourself be heard!! Our country is going to hail in a hand basket and right now you and I are the only brakes it has!!

 

[Charley]

Crazy Horse:



I understood the meaning of your post perfectly. Good reasoning. You and me and Jumbo Jet back to back.



Charley