Latest Oil Anlaysis report on my truck

[Gary - K7GLD]

At 31,500 on oil: Iron(Fe) 62 ppm, Chromium(Cr) 3 ppm, Lead(Pb) 5 ppm, Aluminum (Ai) 11 ppm.



At 45,300 on the oil: Iron(Fe) 68 ppm, Chromium(Cr) 3 ppm, Lead(Pb) 6 ppm, Aluminum (Ai) 10



At 54,800 on the oil: Iron(Fe) 52 ppm, Chromium(Cr) 2 ppm, Lead(Pb) 8 ppm, Aluminum (Ai) 11 ppm

Wayne, It's interesting to note the actual REDUCTION in several wear metals as you hit the 54K mile mark, as compared to the previous one at 45K. I'm falling into that same mileage period with my truck, and it will be interesting to see how my wear metals taper off in this engine. On my '91, wear was still dropping after 100K on the clock by small amounts.



Along these lines, are you seeing any analysis benefits from users of the new Donaldson/Amsoil full flow filters? I'll be sending a new sample off to Blackstone today - very interested to see if any significant reductions are evident from this sample with the Donaldson in use...

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, It's interesting to note the actual REDUCTION in several wear metals as you hit the 54K mile mark, as compared to the previous one at 45K. I'm falling into that same mileage period with my truck, and it will be interesting to see how my wear metals taper off in this engine. On my '91, wear was still dropping after 100K on the clock by small amounts.



Along these lines, are you seeing any analysis benefits from users of the new Donaldson/Amsoil full flow filters? I'll be sending a new sample off to Blackstone today - very interested to see if any significant reductions are evident from this sample with the Donaldson in use...

Gary,

If one considers the fact that Spectrochemical Oil Analysis is only able to see "wear" metal particals between 3 and 10 MICRONS, I realy don't see if one could tell much difference, unless the ***PPM went up considerably.



Personally, I have not seen many reports using the "Donaldson" compared to the prior "Amsoil" filters, so I can't give you an answer in that regard. However, when I did change the filters the last time, I did use the Donaldson and the Newer Amsoil By-Pass filter elements.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Drop the personal attacks & antagonistic posts guys. Keep it to the facts - the other stuff is not needed. I will give you until tomorrow night to edit that part out of your posts. If it's still there tomorrow I will edit them out.



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator

 

[DSpencer]

Wow Texas Diesel.



My experience with Amsoil has been just the opposite as you. My turbo vanes are as clean as I would expect from any. The lines are clean but I did over oil the air filter the first time or two and a bit of oil residue made its way into the intake line before the turbo but couldn't find any at the intake. My air filter has been fine.



My 5 speed shifts just fine. I don't change the oil as much as Dodge asks but I installed the Amsoil in the transmission and rear end at 62 thousand on the truck and with 129 thousand now it shifts fine. I did need to add 8 ounces of the friction modifier to get my limited slip to work as it did before. But other than that my truck has done well on Amsoil.



Not all trucks will act the same with different oils but its strange that none of your Amsoil product worked where all of mine has. I have no axe to grind either way but I read about Amsoil for 10 years looking for people's experiences with it. I figured that if it was snake oil or something like that there would be hordes of people with problems. I have heard of a few like your experiences but not many. I have heard of many users that have been able to run their oil much longer than most other engine oils would advertise.



For anyone that is curious about my oil choices I always ask them to read up on it. Make sure they are comfortable with it. If not, use the conventional way. I think it works. So I run it at least until I find a reason not to.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Texas Diesel, just because the previous owner of your truck Amsoiled it from bumber to bumper doesn't necessarily mean it was treated properly neither does it necessarily mean the issues were the fault of the Amsoil products.



I think anyone who wants to can find fault with a lubricant. I have used Amsoil products quite a bit and have found it works great in some instances (ie the engine), but mediocre in others (ie in the transmission). It sounds like you've effectively had 2nd-hand experience with Amsoil. . . it was installed by the previous owner, not you. I'll be if you had installed and ran the oil, the oil and air filters, your results would have been much different. An improperly installed and serviced air filter can definitely cause poor oil analysis numbers, which appears to be your case. Granted the foam air filter isn't necessarily foolproof when it comes to cleaning and reoiling- there's been plenty of posts over the years griping about that.



IMO Amsoil in the transmission produces mixed results, so no major surprise the transmission had issues.



I have tried a number of oils and did oil analysis continually on my '01 using Blackstone, and Amsoil came back with the best numbers when running 20,000 miles per drain. Using the foam Amsoil filter my silicon numbers are usually well under 10ppm. I like a clean purdy engine when I lift the valve covers too, something I don't see on engines run on Delo 400.



Vaughn

 

[Texas Diesel]

That may be, cant comment of the previous owners habits. There was an oil change due sticker on the windshield, so he did atleast keep track of oil changes, there was an oil film on the fender below the air filter box, a sign that the air filter was receving attention.



I may still have the actual oil analysis.



Here is a link to a Red Line analysis of Amsoil 2000. The report shows that Amsoil uses a short life span additive to get better than average wear results. The additive breaks down after a few hours (long enough for the wear tests to end). And some interesting comments on the '4 ball scar test'.



This may or may not apply to all Amsoil products.



Read for yourself. You have to enter an on screen code, close a popup window ("skip this add") and wait 45 seconds for the download.



Anyone having trouble can PM me an email address and I will send them the Red Line Analysis of Amsoil.



http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NGT5B43V



Hopefully this wont turn vicious but I am interested in seeing what others think of the data.

 

[Duluth Diesel]

So if I jump in here am I just self-promoting? I ran AMSOIL products for about 8 years before I finally decided to become a dealer. I researched the company, talked to dealers, and tried their products in many different vehicles. I had great experiences with AMSOIL products, except for one. The old foam oiled air filters they used to sell, didn't work well for me. The new Nanofiber air filters are awesome, and I've personally tested them in some very nasty dusty environments. My point is that we all have our reasons and opinons. Let all share theirs. I believed in AMSOIL products long before I made money at it. I will not represent a product that I do not believe in. I am proud to represent AMSOIL products, since my long experience has led me to believe and trust these products. I wouldn't be willing to put my name on a sale if I didn't honestly believe at heart that these were great products. I work hard for my customers and I strive every day to deliver top notch customer service. I try to back up great products with great personal service. That's the best I can do, and I have a clear conscience selling AMSOIL. That's good enough for me, and if people don't like that, that is fine too.

 

[Texas Diesel]

What do you think of the Red Line report where Amsoil used short lifespan additives to get favorable test results?



It's all in the link I posted above?



I cant get anyone to discuss the Red Line report

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

PM sent Texas, I couldn't get it to download. . .

 

[Texas Diesel]

Just emailed to you Oo.

 

[Duluth Diesel]

Can't download it, I think my firewall is killing it. Email the text to me here if you would be so kind: -- email address removed --



Thanks! I'll give it a look.



-Chuck

 

[Texas Diesel]

You got mail

 

[Texas Diesel]

What is interesting is how the coefficient of friction increases with the age of the oil.



I'm not aware of any oil analysis companies checking the coefficient of friction of oil samples. So, long term use of the oil may be determental to the engine since the coefficient of friction has (or is steadily) increasing and not being checked by the oil analysis.



Just a thought.



Sure glad I have followed a 5k mile oil change schedule, just like all the million mile Rams...

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Hi Texas I read the piece, it was interesting. I consider Redline a top quality lubricant as well.



If the Amsoil had fallen off like it showed in ~900 miles it would have been interesting if they'd run it out over 20k like they did the Redline. I am thinking it would stabilize after awhile. Another thing, the additive package varies from a maker's different oil products. I'm not familiar with the Series 2000 in the article but it must be a gasser oil.



When I did oil sampling I ran my Amsoil 20,000 miles per change without a bypass filter. That was in my '01, but I realize an oil sample doesn't tell you everything. However the wear metals should give an indication of how well it's lubricating. I sampled every 10,000 miles, so I could compare the oil performance at 10k and at 20k. The wear metal numbers increased fairly linearly. The oxidation levels, TBN & viscosity all came back looking great as well. I also ran Mobil Delvac 1, and while it gave better numbers than the Amsoil in the first 10k, it fell off considerably during the second 10k interval.



I mostly ran Amsoil 15w40. I did 5w30 once and got higher wear metals, which I blame on the 110-degree weather we had that year. I decided to stick with 15w40.



I also think Amsoil is great stuff is because I used the 85w90 lube in the rear axle of my '01 from almost new. It blew me away when I changed it at 40,000 miles at it was still clear and blue, and there was NOTHING on the magnet. . . only a microscopic thin film of metallic residue.



Bottom line, I'm not saying Amsoil is the best/only option, that's for sure. I know Redline, Mobil and Royal Purple make good stuff too. I believe if you compare each type of oil product-to-product you would find Redline has best X oil, RP has best Y oil and Amsoil's Z oil is the best.



Vaughn

 

[Texas Diesel]

What struck me odd was the increasing coefficient of friction for all oils except the RL Racing one. Makes me wonder about extended drain intervals and if coefficient of friction is addressed in oil analysis'. Regardless of brand of oil. But the Cummins engines are so underutilized in our application that there is a lot of forgiveness of abuse.



And Amsoil's choice of short life span additives, sure makes it look good long enough for testing. I found that very interesting too.



Also interesting, as noted in the article that Amsoil chose to compare it's own race oil and Red Lines non Race oil. That seems sneaky to me.



Over all it is a good read and I wish that I could get more input. Especially on the increasing coefficient of friction issue which I would surmize applies to all oils in extended drain applications. But like you pointed out, wear metals should be an indicator.

 

[amsoilman]

Just for the record.



The link that Texas Diesel has pointed out is a response from Redline showing the ASTM D4172 Wear Scar testing between the Amsoil series 2000 20W-50 racing oil and Redline 20W-50 racing oil for Gasoline Engines. This thread is about Diesel Engine oil in a Dodge/Cummins pickup!

The data Redline is showing on this link is very old... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... at least ten years old!

Redline should know that USED engine oils are NEVER tested using this test, as there are contaminants within the oil. These contaminants are not consistent from one engine to another or one application to another, and could never be duplicated.



Redline admitted:

When we first obtained the NEW Amsoil Series 2000 product we tested it according to the ASTM D4172 Wear Test at the conditions which Amsoil claimed to be representative of Automotive engine protection. We found that the UNUSED Amsoil product provided results consistent with their advertising .



[ENDQUOTE]



Wayne

 

[Texas Diesel]

But, the fact that Amsoil used short life span additives to get better than average wear results may apply to other product lines.



If a company uses 'tricks' to appear to be better than the competition in one product line, I would be very suspect that that compnay may very well be using the same or similar tricks in their other products.



If the report is indeed 10 years old doesnt matter if they are still doing it.

 

[amsoilman]

But, the fact that Amsoil used short life span additives to get better than average wear results may apply to other product lines.



If a company uses 'tricks' to appear to be better than the competition in one product line, I would be very suspect that that compnay may very well be using the same or similar tricks in their other products.



If the report is indeed 10 years old doesnt matter if they are still doing it.

I guess my oil must have that "short life span" additive, as I have only gone 55,000 without a change, and the oil is still in good shape according to my last analysis from Staveley Services. www.staveleyna.com







Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Tricks"?



Here's what Redline actually said in Wayne's provided quote - emphasis is mine:

Redline admitted: "When we first obtained the NEW Amsoil Series 2000 product we tested it according to the ASTM D4172 Wear Test at the conditions which Amsoil claimed to be representative of Automotive engine protection. We found that the UNUSED Amsoil product provided results consistent with their advertising. "

NOW, what they did NOT say, is where or HOW they "obtained" the sample they used for testing - did they obtain it from some normal retail source, or was it supplied to them by Amsoil specifically for test purposes?



It would seem a pretty great leap of suspicion to accuse Amsoil of fraud and supplying a "special" sample, when in fact, They may well not even known such a test was being done, or even had the SLIGHTEST contact with Redline relative to the test! How could Amsoil "doctor" random samples for Redline's benefit, if they were unaware of a test being done, or where Redline was to "obtain" their test sample?



And by the way, who ran the Redline tests - did they do it themseves in-house, or thru an independent tester, or one they habitually used for their own stuff? If it's considred inappropriate or suspect for Amsoil to do their own testing, or using an associated testing facility, would it not be just as suspect for Redline to do the same?

 

[JOdell]

And by the way, who ran the Redline tests - did they do it themseves in-house, or thru an independent tester, or one they habitually used for their own stuff? If it's considred inappropriate or suspect for Amsoil to do their own testing, or using an associated testing facility, would it not be just as suspect for Redline to do the same?

I wondered that as well Gary. If a vacuum cleaner company puts their vac against a competitors they will make darn sure theirs wins hands down.



Something else you could look at by using synthetic oil. Less impact on the enviroment because of less oil to dispose of. No crude oils is used to make it, which means the ones trying to kill us aren't getting richer. Why do we buy bio-diesel? It sure isn't cheaper than good ol # 2 around here.

-Jason