2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission leaf springs

[Hammer]

Sorry guys, I take no pleasure this, but I won't sit still for being gangbanged by hypocrites... even if they really are two of my favorite and most respected fellow members.

How do you feel someone is a hypocrite when he is saying NOTHING is perfect,including your beloved Chevy?. Do a search on "death wobble",why?. Its a fact thats well known and well documented and been hashed and rehashed and yet even YOU can not find a solution,instead you choose to bash the very vehicle this forum is built upon. All I am saying,is IF this truck causes you so much distress,then sell it,you'll feel much better.



BTW. .

Yep,your search,cut and paste function work well. Ma Mopar should have been on top of things better,I have even said that here to you,but,thats not good enough for you. I also am a realist and know that NOTHING is perfect and that driving it daily will cause wear. By changing the parts I have found how much better it drives and that to me is well worth the effort. You are saying that your K30,with the same mileage on as my truck,will drive better and have no parts failure and I say your full of it. It goes back to the nothing is perfect or nothing is made to last,not even your Chevy,which you continuously profess your love for.



I am still waiting for your excuses on the early Dodges which didn't have the L/O hubs and utilized the CAD,what excuse will you have for them?. We all are waiting your discussion too on how well Chevy's coil fronts are now,since even they went to them and got away from the archaic leafs. Take my ball and go home you say... . I say sell your Dodge and enjoy your Chevy,your life will be much better off... ... Andy

 

[SRath]

This thread was started by a man who wanted to know how hard it would be to put leaf springs under his 2nd gen. Instead of providing him with info on any such conversion, he was lambasted for suggesting leaf springs (and the old style dana 60) might be superior and solve the problems once and for all.



I share his view. Simple as that.



I have repeatedly said throughout this thread that I have no interest in newer Chevy's since they went to torsion front suspension. I did not even know they had evolved to a coil spring front, so disinterested am I in any new chevy.



I have also said no truck comes factory with great suspension.



The 2nd gen I own does not cause me distress, it causes me disgust at times, but only in regards to the front steering and suspension. Overall, I like my '96 very much and would not be putting so much into correcting the steering and suspension problems if I did not.



Just like you did already, I am dealing with it and I feel it is still the best truck overall for my needs. OK, so I'm being honest when I say that is only because of the Cummins, but the Cummins is so awesome that it outweighs any other shortcomings. I would drive a Toyota or a Ford if the Cummins came in them. I even like to say "I don't own a "Dodge", I own a Cummins that happens to have a Dodge wrapped around it. " That gets you upset, doesn't it? Why? I don't see you attacking the many Cummins (to ford or chevy) conversion owners.



I felt you attacked me, not my opinion (that would require facts), simply because I dared to criticize the 2nd gen front suspension. I am certainly not alone there. You, and hundreds of others, have expressed similar criticims of it in past posts, and I proved that, too. I'm sure that embarrasses you, but you should be careful who you try to bully or intimdate. It doesn't work with me.



I have also been very specific about what I think is good and bad about both designs. You have not. Just as I have taken the time to prove that you are being hypocritical here with your very own words.



Since you cannot specifically say which part of the 2nd dana 60 is stronger or more reliable than the old dana 60, you just attack me in general out of either sheer frustration at hearing a truth you cannot refute or out of a personal dislike for me. So it's OK for you to criticize the 2nd gen frontend but not me?



I could be a jerk and ask why don't YOU save yourself all the distress and expense of upgrading and maintaining your 2nd gen since, as you said yourself, your truck does not ever go offroad or tow or haul heavy loads. What do you even need a big diesel 4x4 for? Status? But I won't do that because you can drive and like whatever trips your trigger as far as I'm concerned.



I meant it when I said you are one of the members I respect and appreciate most here, but I also meant it when I said I am not afraid of expressing and defending my opinions, too. And I don't need to resort to cheap shots like "go buy a different truck" or "take your ball and go home" either. I'm disappointed that you do. Those are personal attacks and have nothing to do with the subject. Personal attacks are the last resort of the defeated.



BTW, I did the same "death wobble" search on the 1st gen forum. It got 28 hits. Compare that to the 232 on the 2nd gen forum and 207 on the 3rd gen. Which truck does that indicate has the most front end problems?



"Facts do not change simply because they are ignored. " Aldous Huxley

 

[RStankevitz]

what exactly do you want from us? every vehicle made sucks period:-laf they will all require maintnence period. they will all break down period. all the manufacturers have gone to cheaper parts thats no secret it is just normal big business. as far as saying chevy is better it isnt a 96 dodge 2500 4 by 4 is built better in the front end then a 96 chevy yes leaf springs are cheaper to lift but i gaurantee softride makes a suspension for our dodges that will ride as well or better then the k30 with leafs. Now i am not biased i have an 77 chevy 3/4 ton in my drive way as well as my dodge i have owned numerous chevys and everyone i owned for the same reason there cheap to work on:-laf where they tougher then a ford or dodge no just cheaper. the way i see it drive what you like as like i previusly stated every vehicle made sucks period so buy and drive what you like and fix it up how you like but maybe if you call chrysler they will discontinue the dodge ram for you so there wont be such a week bad truck on the market

 

[SRath]

I don't want anything from you. :-laf



Except maybe some punctuation and for you to read with comprehension what I said since you just pretty much regurgitated it all over the page (I think). :-laf



Oh, and some more of these cute smilies!

 

[MMichaels]

"Springs? we don"t got to show you no stinkin' springs!"

No coils, no leafs - air springs, like a pete or a kenworth. That would seem to be the way to go for a serious truck. Has anyone tried the Kelderman air suspension package?

 

[NVR FNSH]

Since you won't do a search on "Death Wobble", I did..... :

Please show me where I've said the Dodge 'front end' is the greatest thing since sliced bread?



DW can be a problem on these trucks and it's probably more frequent than on a leaf spring front end - but take a look at the number of possible worn parts on the coil front end vs a conventional leaf sprung front end. I say conventional because you can have a four linked suspension that still uses leaf springs for the load carrying - they just don't do any locating. You see this type of suspension in classes that require the use of leaf springs but leaves the 'locating' spec's open to interpretation.



In case you missed it, neither my '96 CTD or my '00 CTD have ever exhibited DW - even with worn out OEM track bars. I can't explain why. The '96 has runn 255/85R16s since day one and now has Rickson's with 265's - it's my dad's truck now; my '00 has run 315s since mile 30. Both trucks 'should' have exhibited DW given the oversize tires.



The ball joints on my '00 were worn out at ~90K miles. I just recently converted from the inverted Y to T-style steering linkage due to worn out tie-rod ends. I would have preferred to have individually replacable tie-rod ends but that's not the way DC designed the system - again manufacturing cost considerations rear their ugly heads. +90K miles isn't too terrible for these components.



Again, I've never said the Dodge is perfect, nor am I a brand loyal type guy - I buy what I feel is the best vehicle for my needs regardless of the manufacturer.



Brian

 

[Hammer]

I felt you attacked me, not my opinion (that would require facts), simply because I dared to criticize the 2nd gen front suspension. I am certainly not alone there. You, and hundreds of others, have expressed similar criticism of it in past posts, and I proved that, too. I'm sure that embarrasses you, but you should be careful who you try to bully or intimidate. It doesn't work with me.

Attacked you????...

Nope,I just said what was on my mind and asked how you can even compare two completely different suspensions and then make a harsh statement like you made. You also accused me of not doing a death wobble search,which didn't need done as we all know what it is,but,have yet to find one thing which causes it. I do know from what research I did that in no less than a dozen posts recently you attacked the Dodge suspension and professed your fondness for your lifted Chevy. I guess I could have played the cut and paste game too,but,then that would be a direct attack,wouldn't it?. I was not trying to intimidate,insult nor upset you with my comments,just saying what was on my mind knowing how much distaste you have for the Dodge suspensions. I have no need to bully or intimidate anyone,but,it certainly does get tiring when one cries all the time about their truck or the costs to repair it. Again,No Dodge is not perfect,but,then again nothing is because if that was the case then your K30 would be riding on a stock suspension and not a lifted one,right?.

Since you cannot specifically say which part of the 2nd dana 60 is stronger or more reliable than the old Dana 60, you just attack me in general out of either sheer frustration at hearing a truth you cannot refute or out of a personal dislike for me. So it's OK for you to criticize the 2nd gen front end but not me?.

I think in a earlier post I said I'd take the entire "Degenerate Dana" over your old style any day. I have yet to see any failures of them by anyone with big power while sled pulling,towing or plowing. You say the CAD is weak and the two piece axle is a bad design,I say show me where they have been proven to break and are a problem and I'd bet on this board alone there are enough pullers that have no issues with them to dispute your comment. When chatting last night with a good friend,who was a back to back DHRA sled pulling champion,I asked him specifically what front end parts he ever broke,his comment back was "NONE,I broke the rear drive line parts but never did anything but normal maintenance to my front axle". That was a conference call and heard by another TDR member and I know that same truck is still pulling in WVA and has never had the front end broken. I would take the CAD any day over the L/O hub assembly if I was a guy who four-wheeled often. Too many failure with lockouts in the past would have me make that decision.

I could be a jerk and ask why don't YOU save yourself all the distress and expense of upgrading and maintaining your 2nd gen since, as you said yourself, your truck does not ever go off-road or tow or haul heavy loads. What do you even need a big diesel 4x4 for? Status? But I won't do that because you can drive and like whatever trips your trigger as far as I'm concerned.

You could ask me any question you want thats not a big deal. I may not give you an answer you like,want to hear or needed to hear but I will answer you. So you ask why do I then have a diesel??. Its a simple answer there Watson,ease of maintenance and at the time we were towing a sprint car team around when it was bought. As for status,nope,no one person is better than the next person because of what they own,drive or do for a living.

I meant it when I said you are one of the members I respect and appreciate most here, but I also meant it when I said I am not afraid of expressing and defending my opinions, too. And I don't need to resort to cheap shots like "go buy a different truck" or "take your ball and go home" either. I'm disappointed that you do. Those are personal attacks and have nothing to do with the subject. Personal attacks are the last resort of the defeated.

In closing...

I appreciate the fact you respect and appreciate me here and I would certainly not want anything less than you being able to freely express your opinion openly and honestly,just as you should have with a couple others here. My comment about going back to your Chevy was not a cheap shot,it was made out of the research I did here and your multiple posts expressing your distaste for the Dodge suspensions and the costs involved with it. I did not make that comment out of the blue,I made it knowing in my mind that a Dodge would never make you happy,its in your own words here multiple times.



You say personal attacks are the last resort of the defeated,so what then do we consider your recent activities since you resorted to carrying this into another thread?.



bakerjohn...

I have searched through my dyno event photos since 2001 and only found one shot of the truck I told you about which was converted to a leaf front. It does not show in very good detail how he did it what was involved. If you PM me I will gladly give that members name to you and you can PM him directly to ask him about it... ... Andy

 

[ShortB]

Thought this was interesting:



Ram 5500 tow rig build - Pirate4x4. Com Bulletin Board



I would personally very much prefer coil springs over leaf springs. All you have to do is ride in a Jeep Wrangler YJ, and then a Wrangler TJ to get a simple comparision. Looks like the guy made it work well for the application that I linked to above, though. There's a myriad of different variables that can make a truck ride better or worse with either leaves or coils, and each has its own use.