Legal trailer and truck combination in Pa

[esamuelson]

I have a dually truck that is rated at 11000 gvw, am looking at a pintle hitch trailer that has a 18,000 gvw. The truck has a class 5 hitch that is rated at I think 14,000 or 16,000 gross trailer weight. I have a class b cdl license that says I can't pull a trailer over 10,001 lbs. If I get a class a license can I legally pull this combination as long as I don't exceed axle, tire, hitch, etc ratings or does the trailer have to be down rated to meet the truck ratings? Has anyone else pulled a trailer of this weight with a class 5 hitch or is this to much for the frame of the truck?

Does anyone know if I could use this combo to get a class a license or do you have to have a semi?

I know most of this is pa specific but figured someone has probably run into it before.

 

[jelag]

I pull a 24K lb trailer with my truck. . but use a 30K lb rated goose neck hitch... I have a Class A with air brake (CDL).....



I have one worry... . some of our dealers are installing hitches under our trucks instead of ordering them from the factory... they do this for 2 reasons... they can add a trailer tow package to any truck on the lot fast..... and they can usually do it cheeper..... HOWEVER here is the kicker that I've seen on 2 of the dealers lots we call on... the hitch they install is rated sometimes 3-4 K lbs less than the factory class 5 hitch... . they are not installing a class 5...



The other issue i've seen is that all pintle hitches aren't made the same... . a good friend driving a new company truck with a dealer installed pintle hitch was pulling a trailer with a NEW back hoe..... the hitch was rated at 12K lbs... . and it broke... (pintle itself... not the trailer hitch) what saved his A** was the state cop that was following him when it broke... he was under the speed limit by 20 mph and was going straight down the road... . we all learned that some pintle hitches don't muster up to standard..... and just brake..... BTW the NEW back hoe... was a total... ... it rolled 4 or 5 times... never left the trailer at the bottom of the hilll..... still chained on..... just totaled... ...



I know this might be more info than your looking for... ...

 

[Cummins724]

My trailer/machine weight is 15k-18k & I've been pulling it with no issues to my class 5 hitch. I may be wrong, but I believe that the weight rating in my owners manual is 13,700 gvw for the stock class 5 hitch. The average weight GCWR is what you need to check, because the weight of a dually is 8500lb. If the GCWR is 19700... then you take that number & subtract your truck weight of 8500lb =11,200lb trailer weight. This is what is allowed to be in tow. My trailer weighs 3800lb. empty. If you take your truck to a certified mechanic & get it approved... You can get your ratings raised if it is inspected & passes. I learned this when my friend who is a notary told me. I'm not sure if you need any upgrades like exhaust brake, calipers etc. but this is what I was told. To get a class A license... you must have a semi. I have a friend who got a ticket for pulling 2 trailers with a pickup truck & showed the cop his combo license, but the cop said it doesn't count in a pickup truck.

 

[jelag]

As you move from a private class license to a CDL your state creates a test and standards around DOT standards... your state can require you to do certain things to get that license but the license meets the standards set forth in FED DOT drivers manual and regulations... these Fed standards are what makes trucks and drivers safe and keeps the standards the same from one state to another.....



As I used my 1 ton PU to pull that 24K lb trailer hauling personal goods... ... my private stuff for fun... race car, atv's ect. . I fell under my states private drivers license and licensing for the truck... . as soon as I used that truck to haul a comerical load than I was required to have an annual inspection, a CDL license that is a combo license (class A w/o air brakes) special plates, permits, with lettering showing our DOT number, company name... all this is spelled out in the FED Guidelines... ...



I took my Class A test in a small 2 axle truck pulling a pintle hitch type trailer... the truck and trailer had air brakes so I could take the air brake portion of the test... . The truck was an old Ford about a 650 with a diesel engine and the trailer had a tandem axle with duals like you'd haul a small track hoe or back hoe on..... I can now drive a truck trailer in my state up to 80K or nationally with one trailer... . if I wish to pull 2 or 3 trailers than I need another endorsement on my license... the max trailer length is 53 ft... .



What I've learned from this is that there is a complete set of rules that govern what happens here... . each state has a group of officers that are commercial officers that know those rules... . and a group of just cops... . when your driving a large rig and the "just a cop" doesn't have a clue what's going on... . he just lets you sit until a "commercial officer" becomes available to stop and check you out... . I've been inspected, weighted along side the road... had my load opened and checked... . I sat once for 4 hours... . for the commercial guy to get the time to come by... do the inspection, look at my log book, my cab cards, insurance... etc... and say..... the other guy was wrong... threre's nothing wrong here... . you can go... .



Cummins724..... if the truck has the correct tags, cab card, hitches, and brakes your class A driver should have been fine... . what his pickup doesn't have is the right stuff to be legal... . a pickup and 2 trailers the way they are delivered won't pass muster... . one example is the ability to apply only the rear trailer brakes, and common ball hitches won't pass... . on a pickup combination the first trailer has to be either a 5th wheel or goose neck and the second trailer can be a ball hitch... . but you need to be able to apply only the rear trailer brakes to straighten the trailers... . and you have to be able to apply the rear trailer brakes, the first trailer brakes and finally the truck brakes in that order... you can't do that with electric or hyd brakes but with special valving in air brake systems thats all done in sequence... ...



I hope that I'm adding good information here..... I'm not trying to add fuel to a fire.....



Jim

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Yes, you would be legal (I would not load 18k, or anywhere near it onto a pintle trailer behind a Pick-up truck). Yes, you shoudl be able to take the test with that truck. I think you would get a CDL A with air brake restriction if you take the test in that truck.

 

[Cummins724]

I never got the specific info. on why they gave him a ticket, but he was pulling a 5th wheel trailer. He bought a trailer at a equipment auction & tried to load it on his, but it didn't fit. He had his private trailer setup with a pintle hitch to haul another trailer in tandem... . so he hooked them up. The rear trailer was empty, but he had a small farm tractor & excavator bucket on the 5th wheel trailer. He said that the cop told him that it is illegal to haul combinations with a pickup truck in PA. I'm not trying to steal the thread here, but just mentioning what I've heard about laws in PA.

 

[NIsaacs]

Kinda off topic, (sorry), but Jim, how does an air system determine which trailer or dolly is the last one in a series on multiple trailer combos? Say on a set of triples, you are saying the rear most trailer axle first, then dolly... ... second trailer axle, then dolly..... then first trailer, then truck? I do understand how one trailer can respond before the truck.



Thanks, no disrespect intended for the question, however I am





"NICK"

 

[esamuelson]

I talked to Penndot the other day and there statement to me was as long as the combined weight of the truck and trailer do not exceed 26000 lbs or are hauling commercially you do not need a cdl. I asked what I could legally tow behind my truck as far as trailer weight is concerned and she said you would have to take it to a mechanic and have them verify what it is good for. I took that to mean that you can tow whatever you want behind the truck as long as you don't overload axles, tires, etc or go over 26000 lbs. I don't know what happens when you go into other states though.

The only reason I am asking these questions is that I have been looking for a heavier trailer than what I have and came across this 18,000 lbs trailer for a good price. It is much more than I wanted but the price is right. I was trying to get a 12,000 to 14,000 lbs trailer. If I can find out what this weighs empty I may have a better feel for if I want it or not.

 

[Andy]

I have been in the fencing business here in PA for 26 years now. Most of the small to mid size guys around here have been thru this. If your trailer is rated for over 10,000 lbs you will need a combination weight on the truck you are pulling it with. The DOT guys will go by the GVW which is on the trailer ID plate ... not what you have it registered for! This means you will need a CGVW rating on your truck of 29,000 lbs. If that weight is greater than what is on the door sticker of the truck you will have to get a mechanic to verify you have upgraded your truck to be able to be able to deal with this increased CGVW. Then ... yes you will then need to have the appropriate CDL to go with it all! This may be why the trailer you are looking at is being sold so reasonable! Presently I am running a FL70 Freightliner rated at 25000 gvw (Powered with good ole ISB Cummins!!!!) pulling my 10,000 trailer. I load the skid steer on the trailer which puts it in the mid 9000 lb range and then load the truck with supplies or other attachments to keep the law dogs happy! Hope this helps

Andy

 

[TowPro]

I read a story where a guy was going to maple grove dragway. He pulled into the hotel at the turnpike and RT 10 (mothers outlet mall) around 2:00am in the morning. A cop pulled in next to him and he thought the cop just wanted to BS with him. Turns out the cop looked at the GVW sticker on the trailer which was rated higher then the CGVW of the truck allowed him to tow (even though the trailer weighed less then the GVW sticker allowed). The cop wrote him a fine which was based on the number of LBS the trailer GVW was over the trucks CGVW.



I don't know where the cop got the CGVW number for the truck? I always buy RV/truck combos where the truck is rated to tow more then the trailers GVW.



There read another story on of of these forums where a guy in a Ford was towing a GVW trailer that was over his trucks CGVW, but the true weight of the trailer with its load was below the CGVW. He crashed and killed someone, the lawyers took him to the cleaners. he lost his house and everything he owned (and his wife in the process).

 

[GWBourne]

He said that the cop told him that it is illegal to haul combinations with a pickup truck in PA.

i just did a ride a long with a local PD and i asked 3 or 4 of them. none of them knew for sure, but were fairly certain that it wasnt legal. i got home and made a few calls and found out its not legal... for apickup anyway. no matter the lic you cary.

 

[esamuelson]

Andy what you are saying sounds true to me except how does dot know what your gcwr is ? My truck does not have that posted on the door. My truck registration just says gross weight of 11000 lbs and class 4b. So is there a list that dot has that says what your gcwr is? I always thought on the trailers you could get them down graded as far as gvw and that you could put yourself below the cdl requirements that way but maybe I am wrong, I didn't realize they went off of the plate on the trailer and not the registration.

Well that all figures, I knew it was to good of a deal.

 

[DavidThompson]

Pa. is a state that you had better have your act together when you cross those state lines... ... State Patrol and THE MAN..... Mr DOT will lighten your wallet..... and if you want to protest... make a trip back to up the Harrisburg... ... AND they will bend the law to get you to... if you are from out of state... . been there ... . done that..... All it cost us was lots of time and many dollars... ... . trucksalesdave

 

[Cummins724]

I saw a guy at a gas station yesterday hauling a 580 case back hoe on a trailer pulled by a 3rd gen dually. I couldn't believe that the cops walking in didn't even look twice at him. It looked rediculous on that trailer, but they didn't even ask a question. What is the weight of a 580 case? This was in New Stanton, PA.

 

[KLedder]

I haul a 32 foot gooseneck, 14,000lb registered and tagged trailer on the back of my dually through PA all the time. I am a PA resident and have asked the licensing and state cops in my area if I am legal and still can't get a straight answer. I am hauling my two jeeps privately so they don't know how I fit in. Been hauling this way for 2 years with most cops not even giving it a second look. One of these days I'll stop at a weigh station and ask the DOT cops their opinion, but until then I'll keep hauling.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Getting a ticket for being over manufacturer's GCWR when you are UNDER GAWRs and GVWR, is totally bogus. This of course does not mean that it won't happen. Would like to hear more of the details of the story though...