Length between oil changes

[proskeeterman]

Greetings to all and may God Bless Diesels. My question, I'm sure has been the butt of some serious debate. here goes, I've had my Ram since feb and have changed the oil twice now(about every 3500 miles). Just recently I had a talk with a friend of mine who no t only owns a dually diesel, he drives for a living. He tells me his mechanics tell him to change about every 7-900miles. I've also seen this mentioned in the Genes garage advertisement on filter packages. I guess I'm getting somewhat cofused on this matter. Can anyone really tell me the "REAL" mileage iterims? This forum is so kool and I LOVE MY DIESEL!!!! :

 

[Joe G.]

Do you have the owner's manual? If not, then it describes two maintenance schedules. If the truck is used mostly for highway driving and does not pull heavy loads then a 6 or 7K change interval is ok. Otherwise, about 3K is recommended. Short trip driving is considered hard use so the 3K interval applies. Personally I think these intervals are shorter than really required, but they can't hurt. Folks using synthetic oils designed for extended oil change intervals go a lot longer between changes. Comparing our Dodge application for this engine to other applications is not a good comparison since the pans used in our trucks don't hold as much oil as ones used in a tractor or Freightliner.

 

[proskeeterman]

lENGTH oIL CHANGE

Thnx Joe. Most of my driving is I guess what you would call local. Add 4-8 times a month for road trips pulling a 21ft bassboat. Sounds like I should just keep it between 3-4k, to be on the safe side.

 

[Cooker]

First of all the following applies to conventional oil without ByPass filtration:



I have been changing my oil every 3500 miles. My driving habits sound very similar to yours, mostly local driving with a few trips towing relatively light loads (under 8000 GTW). At 3500 miles my oil analysis come back excellent. I don't remember all the numbers off the top of my head, but Iron has been 7 and 8 ppm respectively on my last two oil changes. BTW in 3500 miles I usually add 1 quart of oil.



I feel that oil changes given my/your driving habits could be lengthened out to 5000 miles without any negative side affects. Because of the cheap inscurance factor I will continue to change mine every 3500 miles even though I'm confident it is overkill.



7000-9000 miles is definitely possible and ok if you are driving 90% highway miles.



-Ryan

 

[Treb]

Oil changer intervals

I too wondered how often my oil should be changed when I bought my used '94. I knew that Dodge recommendation of 3500 miles was ridiculous with 12 quarts of oil, and since it costs $45+ every time you do the change, I knew I could save a lot of money by lengthening out the interval.

I do a lot of highway driving at 55-75 mph, and rarely pull anything heavier than a bass boat, and that less than 5% of my driving time.

I started out by running 5000 and sending in oil samples. The oil looked fine at 5000, 8000, even 12,000 miles with only 1. 5% soot, and acceptable TBNs and wear metals. I had already changed the oil at 12,000 before I got the results back, but decided why push my luck. . . I typically change between 8000 and 10000 miles, but I have an extremely light duty cycle. . .

I was also using the fleetguard premium filter. I'm sure that fleetguard has one of the best filters on the market. I believe the premium filter has a bypass system built right into the filter. . . at least some of the heavy-duty fleet guard filters do. . .

Hope this helps out some. Guess you probably know this, but you should also always make sure you fill the filter when you change the oil. Otherwise your engine will run dry until your pump fills the filter!

 

[Joe G.]

One way to avoid dry starts after an oil change is to disconnect the heavy three wire connector that is just behind the air horn. This prevents the fuel solenoid from lifting. Crank it until you have oil pressure. Then reconnect the fuel solenoid and start it up. I have a switch on my switch panel that disconnects the white wire (pull on coil) so this is easy to do. It also works as a simple theft delay switch.

 

[proskeeterman]

Length of Oil Changes

To all of my fellow diesel owners, my sincere thanks to all that have replied. This forum is simply the best and thats due to all you great guys who help us less informed. Thanks again, I'm sure I'll be asking advice again;

 

[redram]

to Treb

The Fleetguard oil filters have a "bypass valve' built into the oil filter but do not confuse this with a 'bypass filtration' setup.



The first allows oil to bypass the full flow standard oil filter if the filtering media develops excessive flow restrictions from debris, water, and other contaminants.



The second, a bypass filtration setup, is a secondary filtering setup that filters about 5% of the oil per running hour to ultra low micron ratings, usually in the 1-3 micron size. This is far smaller than a normal full flow filter which would be in the 10-15 micron size. A full flow filter normally can not be rated for less than a 10 micron as not enough oil would be able to flow through this size mesh and still supply sufficient quantity of oil to the main bearings and engine.



Just wanted to make sure no one made a mistake thinking they should put a 'bypass filter' in place of the 'full flow' filter.



A typical bypass filter found on big rigs is the LF 777. It is a combination filter. The new stratpore filter is a great filter but not in the same definition of a 'bypass filter'.

 

[BC]

Our 3500 is my wife's truck and our pull vehicle. She does a lot of highway driving. We pull 3 times a month... always at least 12K, somethings 14k.



I am also wanting to go to longer oil change intervals. To those of you who are synthetic how long between oil/filter changes? How about with a by-pass filter?



I'll start testing my oil with this next oil change. I'm at about 11k. I want to add the Amsoil by-pass filter.



Is anyone doing 15k, 20k, or more between changes?



Thanks for this thread.



Bill Cook

 

[redram]

Yes, I am using Royal Purple 15W40 API Licensed CH-4 / SJ oil.



Been in the truck since 5K. With LF 3552 changed at average 4K intervals, I would change the oil once every 12K. It was still good at that point. Oil analysis was performed on average once per 12K just to provide a trend analysis.



At 110K, I added an OilGuard Bypass filter (www.oilguard.com).

I am now at 128K and plan on changing the oil at 25K along with the bypass filter. Been changing the LF 3552 every 6K.



I am going to try a Nelson EcoClean Filter in place of the LF3552 and will see if it is as good as the LF3552 or maybe better.



I know of other Cummins truck owners that are running 30K on Royal Purple 15W40 with bypass filters.



An alternative to the more expensive bypass kits available from various sources is to build one yourself from FleetGuard parts.

Use an LF777 filter ($15), use the remote filter head available from FleetGuard ($26), build a bracket to mount the assembly in an appropriate location (frame rail beside transmission or front cross member under radiator)

Plumb it with 3/8 Rubber Hydraulic Hose with push on fittings or Aeroquip line.

Pick up pressurized oil from the oil sending unit with a tee fitting. This line goes to the inlet of the filter head. The outlet line should return to an unpressurized location on the engine (valve cover or top of the crankcase). In the outlet of the filter head, there is a built in restriction (smaller outlet orifice) to limit the volume of oil flowing through the bypass filter. (This is about 5% total flow of the engine).

Total cost should be well under $100 depending whether you use Aeroquip and how fancy a braket is made. The replacement filters should be available at any truckstop or Fleetguard dealer and you can find alternatives in Baldwin, Wix, Luberfiner, Hastings, etc.

 

[Forrest]

Some call me crazy!

But I use Delvac & change every 5k. It costs out to $5 something a qt, but I figure it's cheap insurance. My driving is 25 mi, 80% hwy back & forth to work & the odd tow here & there. It's those blasts over 1200 degrees that make me want to continue changing @ 5k. Ever 5k is easy to remember on the odometer also, every time the least significant digits cross 5000, it's time.

 

[Champane Flight]

Amzoil

I have been useing Amzoil since 10000 miles and run 12000 between oil changes,6000 for filter. I have 76000 miles now with no problems or abnormal analysis. I know of guys running same oil for over 100000 miles with bypass system. Just filter changes and analysis every 10000. I figure the extra protection of synthetic and extended oil changes are worth some real peice of mind. Oh,when I change at 12000 my oil is still clean. And the engine at the last valve adjust 70000 was clean as a whistle..... The cost of synthetics are a little more(about 56. 00 case),but when figureing price of dino oil cost(four changes) same,same with above advantage. Next year I will probably go with Amzoil bypass system,about 200. 00 with filters.



I didn't believe at first,but I do now!

 

[The patriot]

I've been using either Pennzoil 15w-40, or Rotella T 15w-40. I used the dreaded Fram filters until I saw how bad they are, Thank you everyone. You may have saved my truck!!



I now use the Penske filters. I'm even more confident in them since the last issue of TDR. Plus, theyre real cheap!!

Whenever I start the truck up, it's for at least 35 miles. I change the oil and filter at 3500-4000 miles. It costs just over $20. 00 to do it myself.

Eric

 

[BC]

Now I've thought of several more questions:



1) Let's say I want to keep the same oil for 12k, 15k, or even 25k miles. I don't have a by pass yet, will probably add one from Amsoil, how often should I change just the filter and/or test the oil? I have been using Amsoil filters, but am considering chaning to the Fleetguard oil filter.



2) What is the best way to get a good oil sample to send in for testing if I don't want to drain the oil each time?



Thanks for the info.



Bill Cook

 

[redram]

Bill,



Most high quality synthetics would run to 25K without an oil change. It's really not a question of is the oil good enough, it's a matter of determining the amount of contamination that get's into the oil. The amount of fuel, dirt, and water as well as combustion byproducts that require oil to be changed. Soot (the black stuff) is in the 1-3 micron particle size. You could change the most expensive highest efficiency 'full flow' oil filter every 50 miles and it would not remove the soot particles. Full flow filters are usually in the 10-15 micron particle size. Bypass filters usually are in the 1-3 micron range.



To run to 25K with out oil analysis, you are running essentially blind to potential mechanical problems. For example, if your injectors are dirty and not atomizing the fuel 100% or you idle for long extended periods, you could get 0. 5% fuel dilution into the oil at 5K. If you did nothing to correct the fuel dilution problem and did not change the oil for 25K, you could end up with 2. 5% fuel dilution. This may or may not cause deposits or thin out the oil.



That is why most oil manufacturer's give conservative drain intervals. It's not that the oil can not go longer, it's what condition the engine is performing at.



So oil analysis samples should be taken at intervals frequent enough to provide a 'trend' of the condition of the engine and the oil to determine when to change the oil before it degrades. You want to change the oil when it is still good oil. On our trucks, a conservative figure would be every 10,000 to 15,000 miles. It is also important to track fuel mileage (consumption), oil makeup, coolant level (checking for leaks) and if any of these make a shift of 10% or greater, then suspect that something is wrong and investigate unless you can account for reduced fuel mileage. (heavy loads, head wind, low operating temperatures, etc)



Then sample every interval so that you develop a trend of what is normal for YOUR truck not the next guys.



To take a sample, the optimum method is to install a sample valve at a pressurized oil port for the oil. You then are sampling oil that is circulating with the engine running. Another method is to sample the oil through the dipstick with a vacuum pump. This is most common for vehicles. (available for $25. 00, called a Vampire Pump).



It uses 5/16th HDPE tubing (refrigerator water supply stuff from a hardware store) that is threaded into the crankcase via the dipstick and connected to a sampling pump (hand operated). The oil goes directly into a sample bottle via vacuum pressure which then gets labelled and sent to a lab for analysis.



Hope this helps Bill.



You can email me direct at -- email address removed --

I am the Technical Services Manager and have been a TDR member since 1990 or there abouts. Or -- email address removed -- for personal.

 

[cbconway]

$20 for Oil Change?

Patriot,



Where do you get oil & filter for $20? I've had my truck exactly a month & have been hunting good prices on oil. Found Rotella at a local SPEEDWAY for $8 per gallon. Discouraging.

The truckstops around here seem to discourage 4 wheelers.



Filters I'll get from Geno's. But for oil, I'm at a loss.

 

[The patriot]

Wallmart here in town has Pennzoil for $4. 99 a gallon.

The Rotella is about $6. 25.

I get my (Penske) filters from K-mart for about $2. 50 on sale.

I havent bought oil in a while, I think the prices went up a little. (. 25-. 50) When I do buy, I buy 4-5 cases, it lasts a while.

HTH

Eric

BTW Walmart's own brand oil (I think it's called Tech 2000??) is made by Quaker state. It'll save you some $$$ and I would not be afraid to use it.

 

[samb]

In 1989 I bought my first Dodge diesel. I used nothing bu Rotella from the first oil change. Owner's manual said to change at 6k intervals so I decided to go ever 5k. This is what I do today. I now have a 97 2500 auto. Never had any trouble and never have had to add oil. Always change filter with oil change. I am now geting my filters from Geno's years supply at a time for less than $80. I get my Rotella at Sam's club for about $31/ 6 gal. I just use my truck to pull my camper about 11k#. Very little local driveing. Truck sits in the back yard with camper most of the time. I make at least one camping trip a month, one long trip/year and a few week or 2 week trips. Just got through installing gauges this week. Next thing is to slide plate forward.



Sam B.

 

[Cooker]

Quaker State gasser oil sucks. A GM engineer friend of mine was given the chance to test oil in gassers and give the same test situation the QS oil came back the worst of any of their test oils. I don't remember the other oils in the test, I just remember QS was the worst. I don't know about their diesel oil, but I wouldn't doubt it is just as bad. For this reason I'd never run QS in any vehicle I own.



My $. 02

Ryan

 

[JJW_ND]

20 - 25K oil change intervals no problem

I have ran five 24-25K change intervals with Amsoil with just the stock filters (microglass and now stratapore), no bypass. I sample ever 6K and change filter ever 6K. Even at 25K the oil has very high TBN, almost no soot and additives in very good shape. This is operating in ND with lots of cold starts and daily intown driving were the engine never reaches operation temps.



In the 25 - 30 oil samples I have had tested on my truck, I have yet to have a sample come back that said change the oil.



There are very good oils are there. THis coupled with very clean running engines makes for very safe extended drains.



Based on my results, I would only add a bypass filter if I NEVER wanted to change the oil. Kinda nice to change oil once in a while.



jjw

ND