Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) lift pump, dealer "just doesn't get it"

[HVAC]

Correction Noted

Glad to hear you don't need to drive the rig with the bad pump.



It would seem your a better man then I. This posturing (we'll re-evaluate it) would cause me to jump over the counter and grab someone's throat and get my face within spittle distance of their's and yell "WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND"!!!:-{} Then I'd feed a clip into the assault rifle and point it straight up and hold the trigger. I DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' RE-EVALUATION!!!#@$%! SO, YOU WANT TO PLAY HEHE! :-laf NOW I WANTS YOUR WOMENS, YOUR MONEYS, AND YOUR LIFT PUMPS! :-laf



Sweet justice is served

 

[A Johnson]

99guy, if I have read your posts correctly, it is now day three, and you will have at least one more day waiting for a job that should take perhaps an hour +or-. You are a very patient guy and I commend you for your ability to control your temper. You are the type of person that makes a mechanic want to go the extra mile for. I don't understand how some dealers can keep customers. (Keep in mind some dealers are very good. )I think you are doing the correct thing in controlling yourself, although there is a time for firm and serious discussion if you are having problems. If you allways conduct yourself as you have been, you will get a lot more out of others. (It works for me)



HVAC, I know, I feel your pain. It would be fun to try just once.



I think it would be nice to have the option when purchasing a new vehicle of not having any warranty and getting the cost of the warranty rebated. We would probably never see the actual amount though.



A Johnson

( not affiliated with any D/C dealer)

 

[Pit Bull]

I had one fail on my 2000. Called the dealer and told him my manual FP gauge indicated that my lift pump was ^^ up. He said bring it in. I drove over, within 45 minutes of arrival I was headed home with a new lift pump. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.

 

[WadePatton]

Herb, the Y2K is where the shraeder valves start.



Replaced mine at 55K (weak) with a $140 Cummins part, after the "best" local dealer said it'd be 2 days to get to it and a day or two to get the part.



I took the filter housing off and took my sweet time and was sucking on a beer in less than 2 hours. Gee, 2 hours without the use of my truck or a week out of posession?



Shop for a better dealer.



Let's see now. 1998. 5 and up model year = LP induced VP44 failure. Y2K-119,000 Cummins powered Dodges produced. 2003 and they still don't recognize the most common serious problem on a VP truck?



I hope they're just pretending to be that dumb.



I dearly love the Cummins powered Doggie, but I feel bound by duty (TDR induced?)to inform every 12-valver I talk to about the KDP and every 24-valver about the probability of LP failure and its affect on the VP44.



Did it today MOF.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

I agree with hvacs earlier post.

I try to enlighten some of the more mature gentlemen that I hang out with but they look at me like Im a dumb kid. But I say it doesnt hury to try. Ive been condescended to. And told I was a bald face liar and an idiot. Like the guy who insinuated that I was too dumb to realize that my cummins was a two stroke and thats why he went with the trusty powerstroke. And the man who told me I was an idiot because I was on my third injection pump, obviously through some fault of my own,because his truck was running perfect with a whopping 39k on it. Although it has lost a little power and alot of mileage, and it dont tow like it used to, of course nothing is wrong with his beloved beast. But still I preach the good news to my brothers. Sometimes they listen though and Im able to save a few souls, but most dont. Even a dear friend of mine with a 2002 wont check his FP even though I tell him of the possible problems. The service manager at our local dealer swore to him that there isnt a problem of any sort with the lift pump. And we all know the service managers word is gospel. Preach on my brothers. And maybe we all can reach diesel heaven and share a cold one with clessie.

 

[FDziurda]

Mini Gauge

99 Guy,



I wanted a simple way to look at my idle fuel pressure, so I bought a VDO 153-006 Mini Gauge (0-15 psi) from egauges.com and screwed it directly to the top of the filter housing. If I have any doubt about the fuel pressure, I just lift the hood and look at the gauge. The picture doesn't show it, but the mini-gauge has a 1/8" pipe thread nipple on it, allowing it to be directly mounted to source being measured.



Here's a link to egauges.com and the mini-gauge I am using.



http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult.asp?Type=Mini_Pressure_Black&Series=Mini_Pressure



http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult.asp?Type=Mini_Pressure_Chrome&Series=Mini_Pressure



$26. 16 + Shipping



Good Luck,



Frank

 

[WadePatton]

Re: Mini Gauge

Originally posted by FDziurda

If I have any doubt about the fuel pressure, I just lift the hood and look at the gauge.



Good Luck,



Frank

Frank Frank Frank, don't you know that idle is not when FP counts? Underhood guages may be great to check loss across the filter, but do nothing to indicate a weak LP. Yes they will show a dead LP, but what we really need to know about is one going TU BEFORE it happens.



To do this you must monitor fuel pressure at boost with load. Easily done with Briar Hopper unit strapped to the windshield, or a permanent gauge install.



Just don't want you guys getting frustrated because you went down the wrong path.

 

[jtisdale]

I agree

Originally posted by Big_Daddy_T

I agree with hvacs earlier post.

I try to enlighten some of the more mature gentlemen that I hang out with but they look at me like Im a dumb kid. But I say it doesnt hury to try. Ive been condescended to. And told I was a bald face liar and an idiot. Like the guy who insinuated that I was too dumb to realize that my cummins was a two stroke and thats why he went with the trusty powerstroke. And the man who told me I was an idiot because I was on my third injection pump, obviously through some fault of my own,because his truck was running perfect with a whopping 39k on it. Although it has lost a little power and alot of mileage, and it dont tow like it used to, of course nothing is wrong with his beloved beast. But still I preach the good news to my brothers. Sometimes they listen though and Im able to save a few souls, but most dont. Even a dear friend of mine with a 2002 wont check his FP even though I tell him of the possible problems. The service manager at our local dealer swore to him that there isnt a problem of any sort with the lift pump. And we all know the service managers word is gospel. Preach on my brothers. And maybe we all can reach diesel heaven and share a cold one with clessie.

The worst part about this whole LP/FP issue is the bad wrap an otherwise superior engine/truck will get from the "uneducated owners" when there pump(s) finally give up the ghost. Then they will trade it for brand X and comense to totally run the old POS dodge into the ground. Seen it happen.



Back to the topic...

When mine took a dive, (see sig) my dealer had to check it with there gauges. Then they had to call STAR with the readings. Then STAR had to authorize the pump replacement, and then send a pump to the dealer. I couldnt beleive they didnt stock these pumps. The service manager said they do, but those are for non-warranty customers only, and they would put one of those on, but they would have to charge me, and that STAR would not reimburse them. If I wanted it under warranty, I would have to wait for the pump from STAR. Newer revision pump? I dont know. But they did tell me the serial number on the pump had to match the VIN on the truck to be under warranty if the new one goes bad!! Is there even a serial number or any identifing plate on these pumps? My first pump was covered under warranty, but the next one is coming from my friendly neighborhood Cummins dealer. Way too much headache for what its worth. Did I mention they had my truck for a week? Granted, it was over 4 of July, but come on. In no way am I bashing my dealer, I got a good one, at least they had the time to explain to me how this process works.

 

[Amianthus]

jtisdale, you got fed a load of crap.



Here's how my LP replacement went with my dealer.



Them: Chrysler Winona your FIVE STAR dealer, ---- speaking. How can I help you?

Me: Hey ----. it's Aron. My LP is dying on my '99. I video'd it failing on my gauges, so I know that's what's wrong.

Them: Okay. Bring it in and we'll get you taken care of.

Me: Do you have a spare one on hand? You'll need it.

Them: Just bring it by this afternoon and we'll take a look at it.

Me: Okay. I'll be there.



That afternoon, in just over 1/2 hour of me showing up, the pump was replaced, and running with more pressure than I had before. They trusted my gauges as indication of failure (of course I calibrated them at work to a NIST standard using a dead weight tester). I asked about getting my old pump for diagnostics, and they wanted to hang onto it until they could get the okay from STAR just in case they wanted it for the same reason. The next day I picked up my broken pump.



No BS about STAR authorizing the repair (although they did talk to them about part numbers and VIN numbers just to keep track I'm sure). No BS about parts for non-warranty repairs and the like. Just straight service like it should be.



jtisdale, being as how you're so close to me, you should make the drive and experience the service department they offer. I promise you, you won't be disappointed.

 

[FDziurda]

FP Gauge

Wade,

I used an extension line to get some base line readings. It's VERY unlikely that the LP would go to zero at WOT, when it's reading 15 psi at idle. I just didn't want more gauges inside the truck.

Frank

 

[WadePatton]

Maybe not. Mine would go to zero with no mods and 11-12 psi at idle. With new LP and 14-15 idle it will go to 4-5psi at WOT with boost and DDUFM in KILL mode.



Better something than nothing, that's fer sure.

 

[99guy]

Originally posted by 99guy

UPDATE



Went to dealership this a. m. and installed MY combo vac. / fuel pressure gauge. Hooked into port on top of fuel filter housing. Started truck, gauge went to 4" vacuum ( as I already knew it would ).



Went inside, invited service manager to come take a look. Hmmmmm, ha said, didn't know it would run with a bad lift pump. Mechanic that certified this truck to be AOK 2 days earlier was unavailabe today. Service manager advises they will re-evaluate the situation, call me in the morning.

Well, it's Sat. a. m. I guess the dealer forgot to call me yesterday as I had requested. Sooooooooooo..... I made yet another trip there this morning, I see my truck is in the service bay ...



Service writer advises me my gauges were faulty, they had to re-test with theirs and it does show some pressure (ya right !!!), but, they have decided to change the pump. I know there are some good dealers / mechanics out there and thanks for your many comments but these guys ar the biggest bunch of blunderheads and downright dishonest people I have had the pleasure of dealing with for some time!



Wonder why they are now going to change the pump if my gauges were not accurate (they are, by the way!!!). Now I wait till Monday when the pump is supposed to be there, they could of ordered it a nearly a week ago but nooooo!



Well the fat lady, I'm hopping, will sing then, the saga continues ...



p. s. Thanks FDziurda, for that link to the $26 mini gauge, think I like those, may mount mine inside the cab though when I get the truck back.

 

[rblomquist]

Re: Re-evaluate?

Originally posted by HVAC

Your a brave lad to be driving that rig with the LP toasted. [/B]

You guys will like this. My neighbor's had a 99 since they came out. I just got mine/joined the TDR about 6 months ago. He also works on heavy equipment for a living. He had no clue about the LP problems (no internet). After about 2 months of telling him he should check the LP pressure with my Briarhooper gauge (and him telling me his mileage/power were good) I caught him in an oil/fuel filter change and brought over my gauge. We hooked it up and him pump was DEAD (showed a vacuum). He didn't believe my gauge worked until we went next door and screwed it into mine and got 15psi with the key turned on.



He took it in to the dealer and they told him that they (dealers in general?) had new direction that says they cannot stock LP's because too many shops are "mis-diagnosing" them as bad. He had to wait 2 days to get one (same as I did a few months back w/another dealer).



His truck has 50k on it and god only knows how many of those miles were driven with a dead LP. You've got to wonder how many other trucks out there are driving around with the same thing. I think a lot of folks here don't realize that the vast majority of Dodge CTD owners don't have a clue about most of the stuff we obsess over i. e. LP's, turbo cooldown temp, driving around town with OD locked out etc etc. I just wish my other neighbor had a 99 instead of his 01 so I could walk over and test his LP too.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: Re: Re-evaluate?

Originally posted by rblomquist



I just wish my other neighbor had a 99 instead of his 01 so I could walk over and test his LP too.

I have a friend that has a 2000 and has not checked his FP. He has 35K miles on his truck and has never changed the Fuel filter He changes oil at Walmart every approx. 8K miles and uses whatever filter they have available. 15-20K of that 35K miles is pulling his 12,500 lb. 5th wheel. Also, he never has plugged it in, cooled it down after a hard pull or warmed it up before driving it full throttle (he has a 6 speed), he pays no attention to the wait to start light (he just cranks it up), his engine is covered in dirt, looks like he shoveled dirt on it. I'm using his truck as a guide to how much abuse a Dodge CTD can take and still survive He has had no problem with his truck so far, except tire wear on the front because of alignment and abuse on his part. I figure every 10K miles he puts on his truck is like most of us putting 100K on our trucks. He is the reason I hate to buy a used truck, but you can tell from the dings on the body, bent tail gate and broken dually fender that the owner is a wacko job and you would not want to buy this truck. Problem is all of these cosmetic things can be fixed and you would not know how this truck had been treated. :{

 

[kaffine krazed]

Lift pumps are no longer STAR items. My dealer normally stocks them although not enough. When they where a STAR item we would call STAR get an order number and part number give that to parts and get a lift pump from stock when they got the LP that STAR sent they would put it in stock.

 

[rblomquist]

Pit Bull,



LMAO, that is classic.

 

[99guy]

update

Update, The Ram is home, new lift pump, cost $70. 00. Dealer installed under warranty. Why I have to pay the $70, I have no idea! I think the idea is to take your truck ransom and yer gonna hafta pay sumpthin! At least it’s back and it’s not going to the dealer again. Scratch the warranty, I’ll do it myself.



In a previous post I told you I was going to have to take the dealer a gauge and show him I had no pressure, he had said “if it runs, it not the LP”. Well I did take my gauge, hooked it up myself, started the truck. The gauge goes from 0 psi (not running) to 4” vac. running.



Later the dealer calls to let me know my gauges are incorrect, but he will change the pump warranty because “it just has some pressure” he says. OK



Then, new twist, dealer calls again, says due to the huge amount of contaminates in the fuel system, STAR will not warrant pump. Packed full of rust and scale he tells me, this has ruined the LP and no warranty.



SO … back to the dealer I go, I’m trained now ya know, like a dog. Dealer has the pump partially disassembled on bench, I’m expecting to see a LP full of crap and am worrying now about what’s in my tank. Well, what a shock when I see the pump. So surprised I ran next door, bought a disposable camera and returned to take some pictures. See picture below. You can decide for yourself how “bad” it really is. This is the pump just as it came apart. Let’s just say I’m not worried about my tank now. I’ll have to pay for a pump he tells me.



Enough was enough, no since in going any further with the dealer. I’ll call the DC 1 800 # for one more effort to get the pump warranted. DC says can’t do much but I can pay for the repair now and he will set me up an appointment with district man later.



Called the dealer, told him I would pay his labor to date but please push the truck outside and I will pick the pump up at Cummins and put it on myself. OK he says.



Well, I’ve got my service truck loaded and ready to go when the phone starts ringing, a flurry of calls during the dinner hour and before it’s all over I’m told they have decided to “run the claim through again” and they now think DC will pay. You can pick the truck up this eve.



I did, had to pay the $70 bucks for some reason, but hey, I’M OUTTA THERE!!!! FINALLY!



BTW look real close at the screen. There is a discolored spot, about the size of pencil eraser. Apparently that constitutes the large amount of contaminates that plugged and ruined this pump.





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[willyslover]

I wuld call the 800 # again... ask why did a warranted item cost labor... did he just get labor twice... as DC pays the labor on all warrantee items

small claims court would be my next move . . take some of the dealers time away also

also a BBB report

 

[redneckdr]

transfer pumps

i guess there are still advantages to small towns. i have become friends with the diesel tech at my local dealer--also the transmission tec, and the interior, etc tech. last week when i changed my fuel filter, noticed it was a bit slow pumping back up. started and ran fine. noticed i had lost about 1PSI at idle, then about 1-2 PSI at cruise. punched it, and WOW, down to 3 PSI with WFO run (down from 7-8 PSI). new Fleetguard fuel filter, replaced a Fleetguard, so filter isn't the problem. 34. 5 K miles on the odo. went in to the dealer and just told the diesel tech that my WFO pressure was now down to 3 PSI. he told me he had to "order" the pump, but did without questions, or even hooking up a pressure gauge. the new pump is there to be put on tomorrow or tuesday. gotta love that kind of service.

also noticed i was getting a hole in the back of my driver's seat. asked him to check that... no problem, he'd order that. came back to tell me that the leather for the back of the driver's seat is $1,000?????????, but ordered, no questions asked.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by willyslover

I wuld call the 800 # again... ask why did a warranted item cost labor... did he just get labor twice... as DC pays the labor on all warrantee items

small claims court would be my next move . . take some of the dealers time away also

also a BBB report

What is the name of this STEALER. I live in Missouri and want to avoid this dealer. I agree with willy, call DC this guy is getting paid labor at both ends. If you don't get reimbursed take him to small claims court.