Lithia Dodge has Failed to Honor Warranty

[Nordby]

Being a TDR member, I feel it is important to alert other members of a dealership that is not honoring the warranty all of our trucks have up to 100K miles. Any suggestions from members are appreciated to help get through this. I suggest members read this thread and understand what my friend

Dave Dillman has been through before considering a purchase from any dealership affiliated with Lithia. This company has dealerships all over the West and MidWest, including Santa Fe, Denver, OKC, Albuquerque,

Billings, and corporate offices in Medford, Oregon. Dave purchased a 2003 3500 Quad-Cab 4x4 6spd dually from Lithia-Santa Fe in May 2006. He never modified the truck whatsoever, it is stock, and is used for business towing horse trailers. In the 10 months since that purchase, it has been in the shop 4 months total out of that time, starting at 85K miles in which 3 of the 4 crank pulley bolts sheared and stranded him in Billings. The entire timeline of events is posted in the first reply to this thread. If anyone would like, I'll scan the service records and post them in my gallery. I will forward a link to this thread to the Lithia folks in the letters below, and will update this thread with any responses from them.



Lithia, and Chrysler Corporate - it is now up to you on how this thread ends. All Dave wants is his truck back: reliable, and with an extended warranty to cover a NEW engine. No more hacks, no more heli-coils or band-aid attempts to fix what Lithia service has been unable to fix for the 16 weeks it has been in the shop. You guys messed up the crank and engine balance so much that 5 new oil leaks are listed in the service records and this truck very likely needs a new engine. It is already costing you sales as you read this along with 31,000+ TDR members - the ball is in your court.



The current status of Dave's truck is that it sits at the Santa Fe Dodge Dealership. It took them 2 weeks to call Dave back this time, and they demanded $750 in advance to fix the oil pan gasket, which they claim is causing the crank sensor to fail. I am not making this up - 2 weeks to diagnose an oil pan gasket, $750 for the gasket repair, and money up front!

Dave has made 10 payments on this truck, 4 of which were while it was in the shop! He has never balked at paying for service not covered under the warranty - yet the dealership is now demanding money up front. Even the

Lithia regional service Rep Lonnie Johnson said dave was patient and reasonable, and now they are insulting his character and integrity by their latest demand.



The next post in the thread is a copy of email detailing the entire timeline of events and was sent to Lithia after the oil-pan gasket incident. I'm leaving this all in the open - Dave's name and business, the vin #, as well as the folks names and contact information who should have prevented this issue from ever getting here.



The third post contains a copy of the response from Alisha Higley, of the Lithia Customer Relations Department. She does not address one point in the letter sent to her, only that the truck is now over 100K miles and out of warranty.



Thanks TDR, for your time, and any suggestions!

Jon Nordby

 

[Nordby]

<letter to Lithia>

From:

Dillman Performance Horses

David Dillman

29 Camino Colores

Santa Fe, NM 87507

(505) 660-7054

-- email address removed --



March 21, 2007



To:



Lithia



360 E. Jackson Street



Medford, Oregon 97501





March 21, 2007



Lithia



360 E. Jackson Street



Medford, Oregon 97501



To: CC:

Joe Rossi

Director, Customer Satisfaction

-- email address removed -- Lonnie Johnson

Regional Service Manager

-- email address removed --

Alisha Lammert

Lithia Customer Service

-- email address removed -- Gary Gonzales

Santa Fe General Manager

-- email address removed --

Lonnie Robinett

Director of Service Operations

-- email address removed -- Albert Disch

Santa Fe Service Manager

-- email address removed --

Bob Striplin

Vice President, Marketing

-- email address removed --



Dear Sirs and Madam:



Subject: 2003 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab Dually Truck

VIN: 3D7MU48C53G729757







In May of 2006 I purchased a 2003 Dodge Ram 3500 truck from Lithia Dodge in Santa Fe. I am a horse trainer and I depend on this truck for my business. On average, I travel to at least one horse show a month. The distance I travel to these shows ranges from 60 to 900 miles. The truck pulls a 6 horse trailer carrying client horses. The value of these horses ranges from $20,000 to $150,000. My customers depend on me, and I depend on this truck to fulfill my customer obligations.



To date, this truck, Lithia, and Chrylser have not performed to my satisfaction. I have been stranded on the road 3 times in the last year. It has been in the shop for repair 8 different times for the same problem. All told, the truck has been in the Lithia Santa Fe shop for 15 weeks of the 10 months I have owned it. It has been a struggle to work with the Santa Fe Lithia dealership and the Lithia Regional Service manager. Let me explain further.



I was having trouble with the truck running rough and missing the first week of July 2006. The truck had 85875 miles at the time. The problem was diagnosed as a crank sensor (Code P 0336) by the Lithia Service Department in Billings, MT. They also found three of the four crank bolts sheared off. In October the crank bolts were heli coiled. The truck would not start the day after receiving it from Lithia because of an injector problem. After the October service the engine started leaking oil and I reported that during a regular oil change service. February 5 the truck went into the shop again for the same problem. Additionally Code P 0205 (Injector Pump) was flashing. The harmonic balancer was replaced and the 4 crank bolts were heli coiled again. I had to take the truck back in to the shop again on February 19 because it was running poorly and missing. Codes P 0205 and P 0336 were flashing again. The Lithia Santa Fe service department found 5 engine leaks at this time, but was not able to reproduce the truck running rough problem. After having the truck for 5 days, they sent it home with 5 engine leaks and no work on the original problem. 3 days later, on February 27, I had to take the truck back in to the shop again because it was running rough and missing. Again, codes P 0205 and P 0336 were flashing. The crank sensor was replaced during this service repair. I had to take the truck back to the shop on March 5 because it was running poorly and missing. Once again, codes P 0205 and P 0336 are flashing. The truck is currently in the shop.



To summarize the work done in the previous paragraph: 2 crank sensors have been replaced, a harmonic balancer has been replaced, and the crank bolts have been heli coiled twice. The front of the engine sprung 5 oil leaks after the Lithia Santa Fe service department worked on the truck in October. The last 2 times the truck has been released from the service department I have it for 3 days before the problem occurs again and I have to return it to the shop. The truck is currently in the shop the 8th time for this problem.



As I have mentioned, the front of the engine is leaking in 5 different areas since the October service. The truck had 94,209 miles at that time. I have spoken with Gary Gonzalez, the Santa Fe General Manager about this problem. His response is that I eventually need to take “ownership” of the problems going on with the truck and they will not warranty the repairs for these leaks. This ongoing problem causes enough engine vibration to shear crank bolts, twice. At this point I question the integrity of the engine. If this problem can shear crank bolts and cause engine oil leaks, what other damage has occurred? I ask that Chrysler, Lithia, and Santa Fe Dodge Lithia stand behind their product and their service.



The Santa Fe Lithia service department notified me on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 that I needed to pay $750 to replace the oil pan gasket. This is one of the leaks that began after the October service. At this point they believe this leak is causing the crank sensor to fail. They will not proceed until I pay for this repair in advance. Santa Fe Lithia has been diagnosing this problem for over 2 weeks and this is the proposed solution. It is wrong for Santa Fe Lithia to ask me to pay for this repair. Furthermore, this speculative solution does not address the vibration problem and the overall degradation of the engine.



The service I have received from Lithia Dodge of Santa Fe and the Lithia Regional Service Manager has been abysmal. This is an alleged 5 Star Dealership. In August of 2006 the truck sat idle in the lot waiting for repairs for 2 weeks. There were no repairs done at all. In October it took the service department 4 weeks to replace 4 bolts. It has taken the service department over 2 weeks to diagnose problems. I do not receive updates from the service department while my truck is in the shop. I have to call them to ask for updates. At one point I called the Santa Fe service department to ask for an update on my truck. I was on hold for 30 minutes and eventually had to hang up because no one answered. Since February 19 I have had 8 phone calls made to Lonnie Johnson on my behalf. Lonnie has not returned a single phone call. Lonnie has received several e-mail messages on my behalf. I have enclosed the messages and his response.



The experience I have had with Lithia Dodge of Santa Fe, Lithia Regional Service, and Chrysler has been unacceptable. I have made nearly 4 months of truck payments while it has been in the shop. The customer service I have received is unacceptable. The fact that this truck is progressively getting worse each time I take it in is unacceptable.



At this point I am requesting a new engine for this truck with extended warranty coverage. The service repairs for engine vibration and resulting problems demonstrate the integrity of the engine has been compromised. As Lonnie Johnson said the first time I met him on February 6, I have been “more than patient” while trying to resolve these problems. I have tried to work with Lithia Dodge of Santa Fe. I have tried to work with the Lithia Regional Manager Lonnie Johnson. I now ask that Lithia Dodge of Santa Fe, Lithia Corporate, and Chrysler work together and stand behind their product and their service.



At this point I have attempted to work with the Santa Fe dealership and Lonnie Johnson as the Regional Service Manager to resolve this problem. I have been forced to escalate this problem to the corporate level in an attempt to obtain resolution. I will continue to escalate this problem and widen the audience until this is resolved to my satisfaction. If this is not satisfactorily resolved I will escalate to Chrysler corporate. I will also publicize this entire experience on specific internet discussion groups that are Chrysler, Dodge, Diesel, and Cummins specific. Turbo Diesel Register is one of the web sites I will publish this experience to. It alone has 32,000 members.



I expect to hear from a Lithia Corporate representative no later than 5:00 pm MST Friday, March 23. I expect to have an acceptable engine replacement plan in place no later than 5:00 pm MST Tuesday, March 27, including extended warranty details.



Thank You in advance for your absolute and undivided attention to this matter.



Sincerely,



David Dillman



Dillman Performance Horses

 

[Nordby]

Here is the reply from customer service - only mentioning his truck has more than 100K on it now - when the issues all started with Lithia at 85K and were never resolved:



From: "Alisha Higley" <AHigley@lithia.com>

To: "david dillman" <ddillman68@hotmail.com>

CC: "Gary Gonzales" <GGonzales@lithia.com>,<Lonnie~johnson@lithia.com>,"Albert Disch" <ADisch@lithia.com>,"Joe Rossi" <JRossi@lithia.com>,"Lonnie Robinett" <LRobinett@lithia.com>

Subject: REPLY

Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:28:40 -0700





Dear Mr. Dillman,



After a thorough investigation to your concern, unfortunately we are unable to comply with your request for a new engine. I have spoken with Gary Gonzales, General Manger of Lithia Chrysler Jeep Dodge of Santa Fe, and have reviewed the repair history of the vehicle along with the vehicle inspection report which is completed prior to the sale of the vehicle. It has been found routine maintenance will be needed to correct the leaks and does not warrant a new engine.



The vehicle has over 100,000 miles on it and normal wear and tear will cause an engine to leak. It has been found the reason the crank sensor is failing is due to oil leaking on it from the oil pan gasket. The repairs needed will not be completed by the dealership at no cost to you. The repairs needed will be your responsibility to have completed.



Sincerely,



Alisha Higley

Customer Relations Department

Local (541) 774-7564 or Toll Free 877-548-4427

Fax (541) 776-6357

-- email address removed --

 

[JApol]

I have noticed over the last couple of years that some of the best service comes from the "no star dealers"

I did a search on Dodge's website for nearby dealers.

There are dealers in Espanola and Las Vegas, NM.

I would give them a call to see what they say.



Lonny's statement about being 'more than patient' is a gross understatement.

 

[TKeeler]

I have noticed over the last couple of years that some of the best service comes from the "no star dealers"

I did a search on Dodge's website for nearby dealers.

There are dealers in Espanola and Las Vegas, NM.

I would give them a call to see what they say.



Lonny's statement about being 'more than patient' is a gross understatement.

Is there anything between a 'Five Star' and a 'No Star' dealership? The local Lithia about 20 miles from me is listed as a 'No Star' dealership and after my last dealings with their sales dept. I can understand why.

 

[JApol]

I just put that to say that just because its not a 5 star it doesn't mean its not a good service department. Being a 5 star dealer probably depends on the quality of the knee pads.

 

[TKeeler]

I just put that to say that just because its not a 5 star it doesn't mean its not a good service department. Being a 5 star dealer probably depends on the quality of the knee pads.

I understand totally... sometimes bigger and fancier doesn't always mean you get better 'customer service'. The definition of what 'customer service' is varies depending on where you go. Unfortunately some places, once they get big, forget pretty quickly how they got there. Take care of your customers... the customers are always right (most of the time anyway).

 

[NLeach]

The vehicle has over 100,000 miles on it and normal wear and tear will cause an engine to leak. WOW. If this happens to mine I will be getting a lawyer. Thats what I would be doing right now. SO according to this person our Cummins are supposed to leak after 100k,great. Good luck I hope everything works out.

 

[NUKEMAN]

Ah, Lithia. Walt Debore started the whole thing back in the 40's in Ashland, Or. His son took over (Sid) after his death and moved operations to my hometown of Medford, about 10 miles away. They were actually noted as a reputable dealership until the late 90's when things got "too big". In the matter of a few years, they grew from 2 lots in a small town, to over a hundred (franchised) in 15 states. Last year when Lithia bought out practically every dealership in Montana (3 here alone), I was disappointed to say the least. Out for #1 is putting it lightly. Google them and you will see just how many class-action suits have been filed. I can't imagine what their attorney fees must cost by now. The problem isn't only with their Dodge dealerships, it's Toyota, Honda, etc. etc. I wouldn't set foot on any of their lots, "5-Star" or not. Good thing Dave Smith is 3 hours awayOo.

 

[george]

Sounds like the truck should be replaced under the lemon law

 

[zstroken]

Here is one thought, since it is used for the business doesn't that exclude some of the warranty provisions?

 

[camsv3500]

TDR members are listening...

LITHIA... are you...



we vote with our dollars... . no buying from LITHIA

 

[randrade]

I'm sure the two weeks finding the leaking oil pan were actually spent trying to find a way to not honor the warranty. They would be better off and money ahead to just repair the truck. A friend had a Chrysler 300 tat was in the shop something like a month and a half in the first yr he owned it and after alot of letters and calls they finally fixed it and extened the warranty to cover all the time it was out of service. He was also given a rental car at no cost to him the last time it was in the shop for almost a month and a half. Once he got it back it worked fine electrical problems gone but, he didn't feel like he could trust it so it's been traded on a new Chevy. I think he would have just kept it but after all the BS he said screw it. He still has his dodge 3500 but what an ordeal.

 

[HeberRam]

IMHO, Dave I believe it's time to step it up a notch. If it were me, I would contact an attorney , put the dealership and chysler on notice, stop futher payments on the truck, through the advise of your attorney, rent another vehicle to keep you business going. If possible, tow the vehicle to another dealership, that is not affiliated with the one you are using, to get a second opinion. . I know this sounds costly, however, your truck isn't making you any money sitting in the dealership. Keep the pressure on... all TDR members and future dodge owners should immediately boycott any business with this dealership and it's affiliates.

Keep us posted

 

[oneshotkyle]

#@$%! to hell with lithia dodge. the bigger these corps get the more people they get away with screwing.

 

[Nordby]

Thanks for the replies and ideas guys, I appreciate it.



JApol - good idea on the other dealerships in NM. The cummins place in Albuquerque was contacted about halfway through this mess - and after hearing some of the story they suggested Lithia corporate (and understandably wanted nothing to do with the mess!). Dave is through Las Vegas quite often, maybe we can get the truck there.



NUKEMAN, HeberRam and others - I think you've nailed it on the head. Just like there is a Carfax for used cars, maybe there should be a DealerFax for new ones. Documented good and bad behaviors for dealerships available for FREE somehow. Maybe TDR would let us set up a DealerFax discussion forum that could be a record of this kind of behavior. The manufacterers and dealerships have divided and conquered us customers in their current business model - on purpose no doubt to eliminate our power. A DealerFax or something similar is on the road to put us back together.



On retrospect, Dave and I should have Googled Lithia before purchase. Dave specifically bought there because he is from Montana and still visits family there, drives to Denver, Tulsa, OKC, Las Cruces, and Salt Lake constantly. A regional support network through Lithia made sense. I guess adding sanity and reason to something like this doesn't mean anything...



Keep the ideas coming folks - thanks for the support. Lawyer is on the list Monday, as is the next couple websites (craigslist, dieselram, etc will get similar stories)..... Google is going to find Lithia a popular keyword for a while!

Updates As I get them - I'd prefer to write the next reply as saying they are replacing the engine, but I'll also write that they ignored Dave and his attorney and continued to refuse service...



thanks,

jon

 

[J Shocik]

If you really want to get the dealership to take notice of its responsibility failures, do sent friends there to price a new truck, car, ect. At some point in the talks, tell them you're rather reluctant to deal with them after what they did to your friend, Dave Dillman, then leave. Talk about dangling a bone in front of a hungry dog... :-laf



I had a problem with a local Dodge dealership, and sent my brother-in-law there & he did just what I posted. They weren't too happy with me,:{ but I told them I didn't lie about anything, unlike them. I just told them I wouldn't recommend them to anyone for anything, & I was being true to my word, unlike them. At least I got some satisfaction knowing there was a salesman wiping drool off his face after my brother-in-law left. :-laf

 

[pwr2tow]

Here in ND we have a dealership that went by the name of Grand Forks Chrysler Center. They were the biggest screw jobs I have ever set foot in. A little while back I drove by and seen the name had changed to Lithia dodge. Thinking to myself maybe they changed sales, management, and service personal as well.

After reading this it looks like I don't even have to bother stepping into this place to find out. Sounds like lithia found just the place they were looking for. One that operates below customer satisfaction standards.

DC if your listening this place isn't doing you any good, especially in times when the foreign market is over whelming the domestic market.

I suggest everyone who reads this thread and cares about their own customer service in the future, be it through this dealership or any other, click on those e-mail and website addresses posted by Norby and send them a short letter stating your dissatisfaction with what's going on. Let them know that this will play into there next vehicle buying decision and maybe you will be thinking about buying another brand vechicle from a non lithia dealership.

 

[CDonaldson]

When I bought my truck last year I did go up to Santa Fe to Lithia to look at a truck in stock. It was the exact color I was looking for and had all the options I was looking for. Their sales department made me uncomfortable. I took a look at their service department, spoke with the service manager, also left me with an uncomfortable feeling. I was looking for a 6-speed, there were few around, getting less and less of them every day. I decided to return home, 4 hour drive, to think about it. I googled them, saw all the legal stuff, that was the end of my considerations buying from them. I went south and east another 3 hours and bought my truck from a dealership I had already bought a vehcile from in the past. Since then, I have heard nothing but complaints about Lithia from tons and tons of people. I have another local Dodge dealership a little closer to where I live, been there for several little things, but am not too enamoured with them since my last visit. They sell both GM and Dodge, GM being their primary. They do not have a Dodge tech trained employee right now, just GM trained guys. I was there for several things to be done, one being greasing the front end. They could not find the fish eye to grease the front shaft, so they did not charge me but left it open on the service order. Even I know where and how to grease that thing, I can't imagine what they would do with something big having a problem.



DC/Dodge needs to get it's act together regarding these dealerships and service let alone repairs. These dealers will effectively kill the sales of thier products.



CD

 

[Huskerman]

I am not the suing type but I think the BEST advice would be for you to get an attorney and see just what your options are and what would be reasonable.



Some folks think that a mechanical device should last forever without any problems and some businesses think that a mechanical device will always have problems and shouldn't be repaired. You need to find the middle ground and hopefully you can find an honest attorney (stop laughing please!!) that will help you find it.



Remember, no matter HOW rude and disrespectful the fools at Lithia treat you, REMAIN CALM AND ON POINT.



I cannot stress that point enough. If you remain calm, polite and ON POINT, it makes it nearly impossible for them to simply brush you off as just another a-hole.



If you lose your temper and say something silly, you lose the high ground. Once again, this is good reason to contact an attorney and find out what your recourse is.



Lithia owns just about everything here in Boise as well and I don't trust them either. In FACT, I don't trust ANY dealer. I will say however that when my truck began "making oil" within the first 3 months of me purchasing it, Petersons Stampede treated me fairly well including cutting me a check for one months truck payment since they had the vehicle for almost a complete month trouble shooting.



The only thing that Stampede did that was silly was they wanted to charge me $4/day for a rental car. I spoke with the service manager and explained to him how silly that was over $4 when the truck issue wasn't my fault but a manufacturing defect.



Good luck. Keep in mind that high visability can also back-fire. If Chrysler thinks that helping you will encourage other people to fight for a new engine, they just might dig their heals in.



Keep us posted.



Huskerman