Locomotive Diesel Engine Failure

[WKruger]

How the heck do you get one of them heavy engines to start? Big honkin air starter?

 

[nickleinonen]

Must have had it tied to one of those truck frames. Can't remember which one Tundra or Titan. Seen it in a tv commercial so it must be true, lol.

:-laf:-laf:-laf

How the heck do you get one of them heavy engines to start? Big honkin air starter?

the old emd's use the dc traction generator which is bolted to the engine flywheel as the starter. when emd went to an ac traction alternator, they went to starter motors. there is 2 delco MT-42 32vdc starters wired in series on top of each other to crank the engine over. that was until emd went to the new sd70m-2/sd70ace series. . now they have one IR air starter motor. it is about the size of a spline impact gun. i don't like the air starters. they are hard to start when the engine is cold. i had one in the shop that really was frustrating. even at 140psi in the starting resovoir, it wouldn't start. everyone was hating that i had another loco running with a -16 hose from it to the air start one trying to charge up the air. . shop air is only 100psi now [was 90 before, but the air start won't even think of starting on 90]

 

[SHobbs]

WKruger,



If its not an air starter or something like it they are pretty easy to start. You have a battery knife switch, a few breakers and a fuel prime/start switch in the engine compartment. Couple of minutes is all it takes.

 

[nickleinonen]

oh and the ge loco's use the traction alternator as the starter motor...

 

[JacobsD]

Didn't the old Alco's use an Air starter too? I would imagine that wouldnt be so crash hot when its in the negative numbers out. :-laf



How about a professional opinion from a locomotive mechanic: SD70ACe/M-2 or ES44DC/AC? Oo.

 

[nickleinonen]

es44. costs a little more than the emd, but overall a better product imho. although any mechanic can work on the emd's as they have changed mechanically very little in the past 40 years. most of the guys i work with don't like the ge's especially the evo engines as they are metric [first metric stuff on north american rails] and they don't like the hydraulic tensioning and torque/turn. you mess up something with one of those and you have to start from scratch. the emd engine is 75% buzz it on with a air gun or air ratchet and your good to go

the alco's are before my time. . although i did see one [rs11] last summer on a heritage railroad and that alco diesel is one of the nicest sounding engines i have ever heard

 

[obert]

What about using air to force one cyl down and get the engine turning? Not too shure how it works. I did some side work in Vo-Tech skool around a small loco with a detroit (GM?) V6. Never was close when that one started.



Have seen that method on a couple old Bessemer (?) engines. One is 50hp 1cyl, other is 100hp 2cyl, both 2cycle, and are displayed at Tri-State Gas Engine Show in Portland, IN.



Is that antiquated an not used now? The Loco is small, older, and on a historical line. The Bessies are from factories, probly 80yrs old.

 

[JacobsD]

es44. costs a little more than the emd, but overall a better product imho. although any mechanic can work on the emd's as they have changed mechanically very little in the past 40 years. most of the guys i work with don't like the ge's especially the evo engines as they are metric [first metric stuff on north american rails] and they don't like the hydraulic tensioning and torque/turn. you mess up something with one of those and you have to start from scratch. the emd engine is 75% buzz it on with a air gun or air ratchet and your good to go

Thats what I thought too. What do you mean by hydraulic tensioning? and torque/turn is that like torque the bolt to 150ft. lbs then do a half turn? Thats pretty popular in the automotive world.

 

[nickleinonen]

stretch stud and hold, spin down nut, release tension

-

 

[JacobsD]

WOW! Thats rediculous!!

 

[nickleinonen]

WOW! Thats rediculous!!

yeah, but always accurate be it a dry thread or lubed thread. no difference at all in tensioning

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

check out this damage...

If anyone was wondering, the story of the locomotive chucking a cylinder pack and piston:

"On April 4 2007, Canadian National Railroad Locomotive Number 2699 experienced a catastrophic cylinder failure while operating at Independence, Louisiana.

"These pictures show the locomotive and the cylinder pack that was ejected from the prime mover -- and through the body of the locomotive.

"The cylinder piston was ejected so violently from the cylinder pack that it traveled through the air & crashed through the roof of a nearby home where it embedded itself in an interior wall. "/

CN Loco No. 2699 is a GE with a 7FDL16 4400hp prime mover.

Found here about 3/4 down the page Singles Only - Transport Disasters - Main Page

 

[2broke2smoke]

i am now a registered nurse ...



in my previous career i was a professional surveyor ...



we surveyed an accident site survey in Montgomery WV ...



a fan blade flew off the top of a big loco ...



through the steel guard (fan shroud?) and through a house beside the tracks ...



i heard later that the RR wrote a check and there were no lawyers involved ...

 

[GCroyle]

Interesting stuff to read, thanks.



Anybody got any steam engine stories?



If any of you Railroad guys ever find yourself near east central Ohio, it would be well worth your time to visit the Warther Museum in Dover OH for a incredible tour of a museum filled with hand carved steam trains.

 

[Wingate]

hhhmmm... . looks like the "kenueter orfice" got clogged and caused the "bovine emaculating valve" to fail.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Interesting stuff to read, thanks.



Anybody got any steam engine stories?



If any of you Railroad guys ever find yourself near east central Ohio, it would be well worth your time to visit the Warther Museum in Dover OH for a incredible tour of a museum filled with hand carved steam trains.

I like steam stuff and was in E. Cleveland area for a week last year, met up with a few Ohio TDR members for dinner one night in Medina to talk trains & visit. Hadn't heard of the Warther museum though. Will have to check it out next time I'm in Ohio.



In the past when things went real bad on a steam locomotive it was often deadly. . . particularly boiler explosions (and there was that tragic steam tractor accident in Medina several years ago).



Vaughn

 

[GCroyle]

Warthers Carvings



Vaughn,



I should have attached the link the first time. It is a fascinating museum dedicated to the carvings of Ernest Mooney Warther, it is quite a place. Just for fun, Mr. Warther would give out pliers he cut from a sold pice of basswood made with 10 cuts from his hand made knives. Detail beyond description.

 

[obert]

I read the Sherrif's report on the Medina boiler explosion-- lots of pictures in it. It's incredible how much energy is contained in those vessles.



I've not witnessed any catastrophies (thankfully), but I did see a 16-50 Nichols & Shepard steam tractor hook to a transfer sled. No big deal, untill the end, the pull back tractor (new 4x4 JD back in like 1989) didn't get the word from the front of the sled that the steamer was to pull the sled on to the end of the track with the transfer in neutral. Both ends said "go" at the same time. The ol' Nick came up a little in front and drug the whole mess several feet. Qute a site to see. I think the only thing that got messed up was the new twisted clevis used to hook the steamer. It got untwisted and streached.



I'll second the trip to Warther's. Simply amazing!

 

[GCroyle]

I went to an antique tractor pull at the Medina Co. Fairgrounds probably in the '80's and watched the old tractors straining to pull the steel skid plate, no fancy transfer sled. They used a JD crawler to add cement blocks for more weight. When the tractors were done, the steam tractors stepped in. They used the JD to clear off the sled, then the JD was put on the sled as the primary weight, the steamers dragged it at ease with extra sparks flying out the stacks, it was like the Earth was rotating under their wheels.



obert, I grew up in Cuyahoga County, hence a little bit of local Buckeye knowledge.

 

[JMetzger]

I like GCroyle grew up in Cuyahoga County. Brecksville to be exact. I have been to Warther's several times & it is well worth seeing. They also sell knives there & have bougnt several. We send them back every now & then & they sharpen them free.