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locomotives idle for days, why is it OK?

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Re: Why is it OK on their big diesel engines and not ours?

Originally posted by RADdodge

what is wrong with idling a Cummins for extended periods? I see that Cummins only recommends idling for no more than 5 minutes during the break-in period. (They state that the break-in period can last from 4,000 to 20,000 miles depending on usage. ) So is it ok for extended idling after the break-in period?

Extended idling of your Cummins, even after break-in, results in what is called washdown. Low cylinder temperatures cause incomplete burning of the fuel which washes down the lube oil from the cylinder walls and can dilute the oil with fuel. Not a good situation. Trains probably get away with it by running at a higher rpm idle and you can too with a high idle kit on a 24 or even just a stick pushing in-between the throttle pedal and seat on a 12.
 
Bill,



I see this topic every year. They always recommend increasing idle speed to keep the engine warm enough to idle for long periods. Last winter I tested this several times. Increasing my RPM from idle to 1200 - 1300 RPM only increased pre-turbo EGT by about 20* on my digital EGT. The only advantage to increased RPM is the water pump supplies more warm water to the heater which means I can stay a little warmer, at a detriment to the engine.



I think high idle is no benefit. I think an exhaust brake would help. Wish I had an exhaust brake!



Gene
 
I have operated every type of machinery basically around these days, but the Locomotive is the only one left out... . I will one of these days... . Sooner or later..... hehehe



-Chris-
 
Originally posted by charlan

I have operated every type of machinery basically around these days, but the Locomotive is the only one left out... . I will one of these days... . Sooner or later..... hehehe



-Chris-



A few years ago I got to run a friend's steam locomotive for a couple miles. It's one where you sit on the tender. The track is 7. 5" wide, but it is a real steam locomotive. Burns coal, even has air brakes - for the locomotive and the train - separate controls. This thing really has some power and will really move if you let it.



I've run lots of steam traction engines, but this is the only locomotive. I'd like to run or fire on a real full-size one sometime.



Blake
 
kaffine krazed said:
I want more detail on how the speed settings work. Like a schematic of the cotrols and depending on how complicated it is a good explanation of the schematic. Thanks.



This is a great thread. Here's a link to what I think is a pretty good railroad simulator. The trains in it work very much as described in this thread.



-Ryan
 
I work for Union Pacific here in Ft Worth. We leave them running dur to poor upkeep. the batteries are always weak. In yard operations we use alot of GP38's and extended idling causes these things to spray oil out the stack like no ones business. When the engineer moves the loco and it throttles up you better stand back or you get a hot oil shower. I have never heard of the test cocks, we just throw the battery switch and all breakers and fire it up. I do enjoy hearing the EMD's fire up especially the SD40's they have a sound all their own.
 
Question about train driving

If you're driving a locomotive and trying to maintain a specific speed (say 10 mph), how do you get it to hold that speed? I mean, if you have 8 throttle stops and #3 gets you to 15 mph and #2 gets you to 6 mph, do you lap the brakes on slightly and run at throttle stop 3? If so, doesn't that burn up the brakes?



-Ryan
 
Dennis Garrett said:
They use treated water, it looks green like anti-freeze, but it's just dyed to show that the water is treated. Sometimes you'll see purple too, but we usually see green. They drop a few tablets of this stuff into the overflow tank & it disolves. In EMD's it's almost impossible to keep coolant seepage out of the cranckase & into the oil. They will steam out the water, but if it has antifreeze in it, it attacts the bearing surfaces. When these engines cool down, in some cases, the cylinder liner can shrink away from the head, breaking the seal, and letting water drip down on top of the piston. An above post talked about opening the cyl. cocks on a cold start for this reason. I've seen a few that actually did squirt out a little water, but usually only a mist or a few drops. They say GE, which has a 4 cycle with a cast block & individual power assemblies, (instead of a fabricated 2 cycle) is a sealed engine, and can run antifreeze, same with the Cat 3600 series, but for uniformity, they are treated the same as EMD's. All of our locomotives have an auto drain feature that activates below a certain temp if the engine is dead for more than about 30 minutes. It trigggers a drain, and dumps all 250 gal or so of coolant, to prevent freeze up. Any fuel savings at shut down? Sure, between 5 & 8 gallons per hour idling.



I've seen a couple loco's over the years that were not "blown out" prior to starting and lifted a head. Water does not compress.



No anti-freeze is due to the leaks as mentioned. But the ***** is if a bearing tears up a crank, the body has to come off and the block lifted and separated from the crankscase to remove the crankshaft. Not a quick job.



Roy
 
Big Boy steam locomotive

Went to a nice railroad museum in Green Bay Wisc. last summer where they have one of those U. P. Big Boys it is an absolutely giant machine. Looking at it makes you wonder how it was built, everything on it is heavy and huge. there were some absolutely brilliant men that put it together. Am just another railroad fan that grew up 125ft from the Santa Fe mainline, and will always remember the early war bonnets. Would travel anywhere in this country to hear a Big Boy fire up.
 
Roy1 said:
I've seen a couple loco's over the years that were not "blown out" prior to starting and lifted a head. Water does not compress.



No anti-freeze is due to the leaks as mentioned. But the ***** is if a bearing tears up a crank, the body has to come off and the block lifted and separated from the crankscase to remove the crankshaft. Not a quick job.



Roy



Have also seen the rods twist/bend 90 degrees when the head doesnt lift too. have done those repairs a few times.



Non-use of antifreeze isnt because of the leaks..... its cost-prohibitive. way cheaper to put in a bag or two or three of Nalco water treatment. Colors the water either pink or green... . depending on the color of the day. lol Also some engine repairs require the water to be drained below a certain level---- again cheaper to just dump water in and treat with a bag o Nalco.



Also, the nalco water can be dumped out of the system in an emergency... and get away with it... ... antifreeze is alot harder to *hide* :D



As for the question about maintaining a slow speed... ... either you set up the brakes lightly and pull against em, or you modulate the throttle and keep the amps pulling even. once things are rolling though, sometimes you dont even need more than Run 1 at 10 mph. all depends on the situation. I was just a hostler/machinist/electrician in a locomotive servicing facility. I didnt run out on the road or in the yards.
 
man, all this talk about railroads, and the fancy stuff they have now a days, kinda makes me jealous, firing up one of our engines is a process that takes about 2 days, 1 with kerosene heater and 1 with wood fire then on the 3rd day back to coal and running. The shay logging locos are amazing looking when they open the cylinder cocks and travel through the yard, between the steam and the coal smoke it looks cool. I guess that is what i get for working around equipment that some of it turns 100 years old this year (shay 5)
 
Kissfan113,



I've always wanted to go on the Cass RR, but never have so far. Perhaps a weekend this fall depending on my schedule. Is there any way to get a behind the scenes tour or ride in the locomotive? I'm a (stationary) steam engineer.



BTW, we have some guys here at work who are from Webster County and surrounding areas that you may perhaps know their families. Barbe and Claypool are their names.



Blake
 
don't know those names, there is a tour of the loco shop and switching area several times a day as well as guided tours of the town, tell ya what, if i am workin the weekend ya come down, i will give ya the special TDR member rate, (Free) i work on the train, and take up tickets, I can probably work up to 4 on FOC, (Free of charge). I know all the engine crews and it wouldn't be hard at all to get you into the engine of your choosing. keep in touch, we will work it all out.

Kevin
 
rbattelle said:
This is a great thread. Here's a link to what I think is a pretty good railroad simulator. The trains in it work very much as described in this thread.



-Ryan





how'd i guess you dragged this oldie TTT... ;)



for those that want to see some different railroad pictures than what most railfans on the net take, see some i have snapped...



pictures from work 1

pictures from work 2



and i guessed pretty close back in post #52 about my days off and shift...



midnight shift with tues/weds days off... [i had guessed weds/thurs :(]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kissfan113 said:
don't know those names, there is a tour of the loco shop and switching area several times a day as well as guided tours of the town, tell ya what, if i am workin the weekend ya come down, i will give ya the special TDR member rate, (Free) i work on the train, and take up tickets, I can probably work up to 4 on FOC, (Free of charge). I know all the engine crews and it wouldn't be hard at all to get you into the engine of your choosing. keep in touch, we will work it all out.

Kevin



Thanks Kevin, I will keep you in mind if I get down to Cass. I hope I can make it.



Thanks for the nice picture links Nick.



Blake
 
C. D. Day said:
Hey Kat and EMDIESEL - - - Heard UP is gonna' CSX - - any truth?



Why are there so many rumors about CSX? I've heard several different RRs may buy it. CN for one. CN bought the Bessemer and Lake Erie by me and some folks are mad about that.



Is CSX for sale? Are they having hard times?



I wish they'd change the name back to B&O.



Blake
 
rbattelle said:
If you're driving a locomotive and trying to maintain a specific speed (say 10 mph), how do you get it to hold that speed? I mean, if you have 8 throttle stops and #3 gets you to 15 mph and #2 gets you to 6 mph, do you lap the brakes on slightly and run at throttle stop 3? If so, doesn't that burn up the brakes?



-Ryan





depends on the power you have... most loco's have a slow speed control system... it is like cruise control for low speeds [below 15mph i believe]



when i am moving power around the shop tracks, you just jockey the throttle between the notches to maintain a speed. with no train in tow [single locomotive] N1 will give you about 7mph N2 will give you 13-15mph or so. if i am spotting a unit or coupling to something, i will drag the brakes... on most 6 axle power around 20psi brake cylinder pressure [independent brakes] and N1 power you will just creep along. N3 power will give enough power down to start to overcome 80psi brake cylinder pressure. hit N4 and you will start moving with 80psi brakes [unless you are trying to drag something with brakes on... i got 1500amps on a dash9 that was not loading in a consist, but on it's own it would hit 1500A before you got wheelslip and power drop... ;)]
 
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