long post about CA registration and flat bed

[RM]

I recently got a fix it ticket from CHP for registration being wrong on my 06 pickup. It was registered as pk and not flat bed but i thought I was ok cause on the DMV web site the definition of pickup is under 11. 5k gvwr and unladen weight under 8k and equipped with a open box-type bed not over 9 feet and not having a bed commonly called a utility bed. So i went to DMV thinking i could show them this and found out they could care less what that said and called it a flat bed and i had to pay 132 more dollars for weight and i've got to go back with my title to get it changed. When i was there I had to declare my gvwr and i said 11. 5 just like it said but I think this is a big mistake. I think it puts me in the commercial area and take me out of the private area but I don't know? All the different forms it has all kind of different weights like emissions is 7. 5 i think and theres a under 10,001 weight and I don't even know if i can still pull my horse trailer with my current class B I use for work. Does any one know where I can go to get this explained. I've read several post on here and it's clear as mud to me. I haven't brought in my title yet and i think i could change it still. Or should i get to shopping for a used takeoff bed as quick as i can? I'm not commercial in any way but that does'nt seem to matter at all. Does anyone have any information that would help? Do i have to go through the scales now? The truck weighs 7720 Thanks Ron

 

[lawdog]

I cant speak for California, but in Michigan if you remove the factory pick up bed and put on a flat bed it is NO LONGER A PICK-UP, it is then a Stake Truck. As a Stake truck / Flat bed it is going to be difficult to convince a Motor Carrier Officer that it is your personal vehicle not used commercially.



I would find a pick up bed.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm sorry, wish I could provide magic information to help you fix the problem but you won't win the argument. Flatbeds have been commercial in the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia for years. Even the language you quoted in your post above makes it pretty clear that anything other than a pickup bed makes a light truck commercial in Kalifornia. Here's the reason your truck is NOT a pickup: "and equipped with a open box-type bed. "

When I was transporting RVs from several years ago I worked part of the time for a transport company located in Fontana and also pulled a lot of trailers from the Keystone plant in Pendleton, OR down I-5 to LA for another company. I was well aware during that period from talking to other drivers and the company I worked for of CA rules.

Pickups were not welcome or even allowed on their weigh scales even though I was commercial in every way. My very first trip loaded into KA I pulled on a scale just across the state border from OR. A uniformed trooper or scale operator came running out angrily waving his arms and shouting at me basically telling me to stay off their scales and don't come back. At the same time, every truck with a flatbed, towing bed, anything other than a pickup bed was considered commercial and required to weigh at all scales.

If you can remove the flatbed and put a pickup bed on your truck you'll be much better off. You're actually required to stop at scales and go inside and present your documents, perhaps even keep a log book.

That's the way it is in Kalifornia.

 

[Regcabguy]

Mo' dough.

My friend's owned two CTD's with flatbeds and had normal commercial plates. The '90 had a super heavy steel flatbed with utility cabinets and a Tommy Lift. The '07 has an aluminum flatbed,cabinets, and now a 9' popup camper on it. Recently he had the '07 plates changed to private car ones. Saves him a bundle. it's all about revenue generation.

 

[Bob4x4]

All pick ups are considered commercial (in Cali) unless you have a permanent body that precludes carrying cargo at any time

 

[RM]

OK i give its a flat bed but

Ok its under 8k pounds and all but dmv aint going for it so let me move on. Here's the sticker I now have already filled out the "declaration of gvw/cgvw" and it says at the top"all owners of commercial motor vehicles operating at 10. 001 or more gvw or cgvw pickups excluded registered with cdmv are required to declare the g/cgvw at which their vehicle will operate" then in definitions it says"declared gvw or declared cgw then you have to pick a weigh I picked A 10,001 to 15,000 because the door says 11,500 then in declaration she told me to put the A in box gvw for the weight the truck could weigh and I ask would that still allow me to pull my 10k horse trailer and she said it would have no effect but if I read this right i cant have a cgw of over 15k and then I have to sign under penalty of perjury and I don"t know if this is right or not I might be a perjurer and not even know it. Is there anyone I could pay to explain what i'm doing. I don't get it. All I want to do is use my pickup not become a lawyer. Should i declare under 10,001? thank guys appreciate the help Ron

 

[Scooby]

When I lived in California I maintained a AAA membership just to deal with registration issues. Go join AAA - you can do everything there except get a driver's license. The offices are nicer and much, much less crowded and often you'll find a more knowledgable person there who is willing to spend the time to work with you to explain the proper procedure. There are some odd rules in Californina, but from what I've read here - I now understand your other post asking if an 03 bed fits on an 06..... and I think it would... .

 

[RWood]

I don't know for sure because I haven't been caught yet and we have three flatbeds on the ranch. I would definently register under 10000 lbs, save money. With the flat bed you have a ca number and to go out of state if you have a ca number you have to have a dov number. Sorry to hear you got caught. When I get caught I'll put my regular bed back on.

 

[p-Bar]

All pick ups are considered commercial (in Cali) unless you have a permanent body that precludes carrying cargo at any time

Not sure this is true just saw a buddy of mine that had bought a 4500 GMC dually 4x4 with a custom flatbed unit on the back for towing his 5er and gooseneck flatbed said he could register it as recreational will save him a lot of money. He is in Cali.

 

[jelag]

We tow commercially in CA... . when our trucks we're pickups (with stock beds) we were able to scoot around the scales... as soon as we moved to custom flatbeds to ease our use... we now had to scale... and we found ourselves being inspected more by the commercial division of the Highway Patrol...

You might be able to scoot the law by going to AAA but your still not going to be able to scoot the commercial Highway Patrol who are going to continue to stop you and ticket you... so no matter what you do with DMV their commercial division of the Highway Patrol has been trained to stop and ticket you... . you won't win... .

I'd suggest either get the right plates or put the bed back on... .

My home state... . WA rates the trucks based on their stock weight and potential GVW... but its again all about the money... .

 

[Wingate]

It almost sounds like it would be easier to MOVE to another state!!!!... What a bunch of crap...

 

[Crunch]

It almost sounds like it would be easier to MOVE to another state!!!!... What a bunch of crap...

Makes you glad you live in Texas, doesn't it? I've driven all over the SE United States and have never been hassled. I've been stopped once or twice because I haul a strange looking trailer, but no one has ever tried to lay a commercial rap on me. I get paid to do work at the destination site, and would use that as my defense if they ever did. If you get tagged as commercial you will also have to have a medical card, which I believe can now be pulled for hypertension and other health issues. Having a bumper pull might also work in my favor. I'd heard that if you have a gooseneck your chances of getting pulled over go way up. A friend of mine from KY was driving some livestock out of state with his gooseneck and got stopped. He said he was transporting them from his farm but they made him follow them to the scale, where they made him buy some permits, told him he needed a log book, etc. They then let him go after telling him that they were bumping the information up the line and he might end up getting some tickets. It's a mess that is only going to get worse. It wouldn't surprise me if in the future just pulling a 5th wheel for camping will get you hassled as a commercial driver.

 

[EGroeneveld]

Makes you glad you live in Texas, doesn't it? I've driven all over the SE United States and have never been hassled. I've been stopped once or twice because I haul a strange looking trailer, but no one has ever tried to lay a commercial rap on me. I get paid to do work at the destination site, and would use that as my defense if they ever did. If you get tagged as commercial you will also have to have a medical card, which I believe can now be pulled for hypertension and other health issues. Having a bumper pull might also work in my favor. I'd heard that if you have a gooseneck your chances of getting pulled over go way up. A friend of mine from KY was driving some livestock out of state with his gooseneck and got stopped. He said he was transporting them from his farm but they made him follow them to the scale, where they made him buy some permits, told him he needed a log book, etc. They then let him go after telling him that they were bumping the information up the line and he might end up getting some tickets. It's a mess that is only going to get worse. It wouldn't surprise me if in the future just pulling a 5th wheel for camping will get you hassled as a commercial driver.

It would be nice if the states would come together and come up with some real basic rules such as:



If a pickup bed, no matter what size of trailer no D. O. T. rules unless combined is over then 26,000.



No rules for RV, rv trailers, camping trailers etc...



As long as the flatbed truck itself is under 20,000 no D. O. T. and no D. O. T. as long as the combined weight is 26,000 or less.



All Ag business exempt except for running over 26,000 combined.



Here in Oregon things get messed up with any trailer thats rated for 10,000 or more. Personal or business does not matter. I have 3 that are over 10K rated so I have to run T plates which I then pay by combined rate $ 787/year for a 26,000 rating on the truck, The three trailers over 10,000 are then perm plated with no trailer fees ever.



There should also be a caveate that a grossly over loaded truck (visually) should be able to pulled over and tested for axle and tire ratings. See some ugly stuff everyday.

 

[jelag]

Crunch

If your total weight gets over the 20K range... and one of the commercial guys pulls you over and inspects your load... . if its for business purposes and you don't have a medical card, CDL and logbook you might find your truck and trailer being towed and your standing there with a nice ticket in your hands... .

The commercial enforcement that I've been stopped by for routine inspections at the scale houses and the enforcement officers in the field know the laws of their states and the federal laws... they store data in a national data base... . so you can be checked in one state and 400 miles later the next guy in another state can see the data... .

 

[Crunch]

If your total weight gets over the 20K range... and one of the commercial guys pulls you over and inspects your load... . if its for business purposes and you don't have a medical card, CDL and logbook you might find your truck and trailer being towed and your standing there with a nice ticket in your hands... .

Fortunately my max towing weight is 12K, and I've never gone over that. All the long towing I've done is ag-related, and when we looked at one of the laws there was a provision for both that, and to take into consideration the financial impact on small businesses. But I admit I'm confused by a lot of the laws. There has to be a legal difference between your friend throwing a few buck away for helping him/her move and being an undisputed commercial driver. I've looked at the hotshot boards, and found little help. I've concluded that the minimal driving I do each year to help out a friend is no different than someone driving horses around the country to horse shows. If I ever get stopped I may find out the hard way I was wrong, but so far in my life I've never been hassled, or even asked if it was OK to search my vehicle. The only thing that came even close was just after I graduated college I had a friend ask me to drive his furniture to Las Vegas for him when he moved. At the eastern Arizona border there was a checkpoint and they asked if I had any fruits, vegetables or livestock. I said "no" and was on my way. Federal enforcement might be different, but I'm guessing the states' attitudes on the west coast are very different than those in the South. The only time I usually see scales open in Texas are when they run those 72 hour DOT inspections. Then the trucks are backed down the ramp and down the highway for a mile or two. What is common to see is the state DOT whipping out the portable scales and weighing rock haulers and large garbage trucks.

 

[jelag]

In OR and WA your allowed ag plates and a special CDL for ag related business but can't cross the state line nor haul more than 150 miles from the farm... . Here, if the combined weight of the load is over 16K you have to scale, in OR that law is 20K and in other states it might be 26K...

Our Ram 5500 rated at 19,500 has to scale at every scale in WA and by-passes them in OR because of the DOT number on the side of the truck... Our 3500's w/o a trailer that work local are under the 16K but the driver has to have a medical card, the DOT number is on the truck and if the driver is home every night no log book, if he's out for more than a few days or crosses a state line he needs a log book...

I personally could use a Freightliner (FL60) quad cab rated at 26K to pull my 5er and use it privately and wouldn't have to scale in either state..... its private use...

I'm sure you've seen some of the baby Freightliners doing that... they usually have printed on the side of the cab "private use" and might have nothing more than pickup plates, based on the state its from... .

But as soon as you make it for business, an its not just furniture than its the DOT rules regardless of weight... .

And the annual inspection process is mandatory as well as the drug testing for any vehicle and driver under the DOT program... We have a sticker on the side of the passenger side of the cab with the date of inspection, and a copy of the inspection sheet correctly filled out and signed needs to be in the cab of the truck... .

As you pull into AZ your asked to show that you have permits on your CAB CARD that allows you to operate in AZ and each state has it's own rules regarding that law as well as others... .

The key here is to get a copy of Federal Motor Carrier "Safety Regulations" often available at most trucks stops as a hand book or order it from J. J. Keller Supply... .

Its the red tag, your out of service from a inspector or commercial enforcement officer that means a repair truck or tow truck has to make a visit..... that can hurt... .

 

[HBarlow]

It would be nice if the states would come together and come up with some real basic rules such as:.....

Yes, that is what the FMCA rules are about. Federal standardization of commercial motor vehicle regulations.

The problem is the states that enact all the goofy additional requirements and taxes that they impose on their own citizens.

Change your state government and change the harassing laws.

 

[Crunch]

This is for horse owners, but it also points out that states can have "more stringent" regulations than the feds, but not less stringent:

How Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Affect Horse Trailers.
How Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Affect Horse Trailers.

In 1986, Congress passed the Federal Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act (FCMVSA/86). This law requires each State to meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. The states may have more stringent regulations of their own, but they may not lessen the standards.
*******************************

So the states are completely within their rights if they want to jam you up for a flat bed or different truck configuration. What surprised me is that all these people I know who haul their horses to shows *might* be considered to be engaging in "commerce" is they have the possibility of winning money at the show, especially if they travel out of state, but not necessarily required to follow the FMCSRs:

From the same page:
"`Commerce' can be more loosely defined as actually "involved in a commercial venture" or the "intent" to make a profit. This does not mean actually making a profit! Running a commercial stable, hauling horses for show (with intent to profit), race, sale, training, or for compensation are some examples of commercial enterprises. Prize money and showing to increase the value of the horse can be interpreted as profit. "

And this:

1. If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles under 10,001 lbs. GVWR or GCVWR, you don't have to be concerned with the FMCSR's or a commercial driver's license (CDL). You must, however, follow the safety equipment requirements and driver's license requirements of your own state.
2. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles interstate 10,001 to 26,000 pounds GVWR, you must decide if you are commercial and subject to FMCSR. You do not need a commercial driver's license (CDL), although your home state may have an additional classification of driver's license. (The initial decision is up to the owner whether or not he/she is pursuing a hobby or is involved in interstate commerce and he/she bears the burden of proof. If you only travel within your state, you may follow the state definitions of commercial, but if you plan to travel into other states and your vehicle or combination is 10,001 lbs or more, the official recommendation from Federal Authorities is that you follow FMCSR's)
3. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles intrastate 10,001 to 26,000 lbs GVWR, you must follow your home state requirements if they differ from the Federal requirements.
4. If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more interstate you must have a commercial driver's license (CDL) and you must follow FMCSR.
5. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more intrastate, you must follow your state guidelines for commercial licensing (CDL), and FMCSR requirements.

Although these days I wouldn't be surprised if some government yahoo would try to classify horse manure and the C02 they exhale as hazardous materials.

But it's for our own good, right?

 

[RM]

Thanks for all the replies after thinking about it all night i'm just going to change the bed back as soon as I can find one. The problem is I like the flatbed alot but I dont want the hassle its becomed. I am in no way commercial and i only pull my horse trailer with it and I ain't won no money at nothin so to save the hassle I'm puttin it up for sale or trade. Anyone interested? Ron

 

[RVTRKN]

When I lived in California I maintained a AAA membership just to deal with registration issues. Go join AAA - you can do everything there except get a driver's license. The offices are nicer and much, much less crowded and often you'll find a more knowledgable person there who is willing to spend the time to work with you to explain the proper procedure. There are some odd rules in Californina, but from what I've read here - I now understand your other post asking if an 03 bed fits on an 06..... and I think it would... .

Sorry, not commercial issues, been there, done that. My truck is now insured through them though, but it took a threat of leaving with all the other insurance I have through them.