LORENZ vs Kore, A REAL WORLD BEATING and the RESULTS

[Bob4x4]

I have the Carli dominator 3" with hydros front and rear. Spent many miles in Baja running around with the Carli Crew. Having driven most different brands and set-ups I am still very impressed with mine that is about 5-6 years old.

I also have the long travel Carli bags,I have been known to forget to put any air in when towing my 750lb twt trailer. No drama tows great.

 

[Bob4x4]

Last year at the Baja 1000 we ran into a guy from Canada down in Gonzaga Bay that had a truck almost Identical to ours but with Carli instead of KORE. Turned out he used to be a KORE distributor and was unhappy with a few things and switched to being a Carli distributer. He told us if we wanted to fix the harshness of our truck off-road that we needed to junk the KORE front coils and replace them with Carli coils and keep everything else.



.

:-laf Well that could have been Richard from Big Dog or Kevin from HRT.

They both were KORE guys and Both saw the error of their ways

 

[LVJUNIOR]

:-laf Well that could have been Richard from Big Dog or Kevin from HRT.
They both were KORE guys and Both saw the error of their ways

Kevin sound like it rings a bell. It was either white or silver 3rd gen my memory is leaning towards silver. He was a good guy but then again not many of the flat biller crap heads make it down to Gonzaga Bay

 

[DAWG-1]

Hi, I am interested in the Carli 2. 65 Bilstein kit. Can someone tell me how this suspension system rides on the street compared to stock? I will be running 35" Toyo M/Ts.

 

[AEdelheit]

Compared to stock it rides great, In my opinion the 3" kings ride better on and off road but also come with a nicer price tag. It will be much more controlled then stock and will absorb big hits better, expansion joints will be less noticable aswell. Hopfully Eric chimes in on this

 

[AMcCormick]

Hi, I am interested in the Carli 2. 65 Bilstein kit. Can someone tell me how this suspension system rides on the street compared to stock? I will be running 35" Toyo M/Ts.

From my very short ride in a quad cab short bed ctd carli bilstein 2. 65 I would say it felt like a sports car. Firm and stable. Hitting sharp speed bumps at fifty was a tug on the seat belt but not a jarring impact that I was expecting. Keep in mind this was a very short ride. Not a long enough ride for me to base a decision around. If you are more interested in the street ride I would lean toward the bilstein 7100 or 5160, performance 2. 0 or Backcountry. Much cheaper and still pretty capable in the dirt. Totallyshines on fire roads and wash board type stuff. The Thuren 2. 5 King are a pretty good price point as well.

 

[ASchwartz]

Either way if you want to hit anything with speed you really need a truss, these AAM's dont hold up well to big hits.

:-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[Bob4x4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEdelheit

Either way if you want to hit anything with speed you really need a truss, these AAM's dont hold up well to big hits.





With a CTD

Carli's Hemi truck is still untrussedand straight. It is also a very plush ride and still goes over anything at speed

 

[LVJUNIOR]

I spoke with my shock guy at the race this weekend about my truck. He said stay away from the bilstein shocks they are junk. He said the King shocks are way overpriced and the Fox shocks actually perform better than the Kings. He recommended going with a 2. 5 minimum but a 3 would be preferred due to the weight. He buys over $90k worth of shocks every year and usually orders them unassembled so he can put a better valving setup in them.

 

[AEdelheit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEdelheit

Either way if you want to hit anything with speed you really need a truss, these AAM's dont hold up well to big hits.





With a CTD

Carli's Hemi truck is still untrussedand straight. It is also a very plush ride and still goes over anything at speed

Well ya but were on a CTD fourm sooooo I never trussed the axle on my mega and I know you know how I drive it! But for the majority of people a truss is a must to really use your suspension!



I Have Kings and have been happy, I think Valving is far more important then brand, even 3" shocks with bad valving will make a Rancho look good!

 

[AMcCormick]

I spoke with my shock guy at the race this weekend about my truck. He said stay away from the bilstein shocks they are junk. He said the King shocks are way overpriced and the Fox shocks actually perform better than the Kings. He recommended going with a 2. 5 minimum but a 3 would be preferred due to the weight. He buys over $90k worth of shocks every year and usually orders them unassembled so he can put a better valving setup in them.

What is he doing with 90k worth of shocks? I am curious what each company does differently. I would like to hear his reasons for choosing Fox.

 

[LVJUNIOR]

What is he doing with 90k worth of shocks? I am curious what each company does differently. I would like to hear his reasons for choosing Fox.

He puts them on off-road race cars, rock crawlers and sand cars but primarily off-road race cars. He said the foxes and kings are very similar inside but the fox just perform better. He did not elaborate what specifically made them work better but he is staking his reputation on fox shocks. He has won championships with both. Even the parts for Kings are twice as much so when they need a rebuild you get to pay for the name again. I definitely trust his judgment. The shocks he built for us helped put us on the podium at the race Saturday against people with some really deep pockets.

 

[ENafziger]

Hi, I am interested in the Carli 2. 65 Bilstein kit. Can someone tell me how this suspension system rides on the street compared to stock? I will be running 35" Toyo M/Ts. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

The 2. 65 is arguably one of the best all around suspension kits on the market today, hands down. However, if you are primarily concerned about street ride, there may be better options. I have one of the original 2. 65 kits. The ride on road is better than stock... but I wouldn't describe it as plush, soft, compliant, cushy, etc. It is a sports type handling feel that responds well to driver input and gives you a feel of the terrain your going over. The ride is better than stock by a significant margin, but not in the plush sort of way. The beauty of the system begins to come out as you push things. For example, find a wide open parking lot with lots of speed bumps. At a typical 5 - 10 mph, I'm not sure how much difference you'd notice over stock. Up it to 25 - 30 mph, and there's still a noticeable "bump", but you'll be a little surprised in that the suspension didn't bottom out, and you didn't hit your head on the roof. Now, take the speed bumps at 50 - 60 mph, and... . WOW!!! Where'd they go? It's literally smoother to take these hits at speed than it is under normal driving, if that makes sense.

Now, Sage has come a long way with the valving on the 2. 65s since I bought mine. From what I understand, they include softer initial valving profiles, the ACVs, and jounce stops... none of which I have. I presume, these would only make the ride better all around... on the small, medium, and big stuff!

What are your intended uses for the truck?

He said stay away from the bilstein shocks they are junk. He said the King shocks are way overpriced and the Fox shocks actually perform better than the Kings.

I'd be interested in hearing more. Why does he consider Bilsteins to be "junk"? From what I understand, the Carli crew was SUPER impressed with the 2. 65s from the start... and their expertise has only made them better. In fact, I think it could be argued that the Carli valved 2. 65s could run with ANYTHING out there and hold there own, with the exception of true 3 or 4 tube bypass shocks.

I'm curious to hear the thoughts and reasoning from your friend. But at the same time, I'm skeptical that Thuren and the Carli crew would be using shocks that are clearly inferior that Fox.

--Eric

 

[LVJUNIOR]

I am not sure what his reasons are but he is not the only shock guy that has told me that. I have no doubt Carli knows his stuff and if I was starting from stock and hit the lottery I would buy his suspension hands down. That being said how many bilstein shocks do you see on race day compared to fox and king. More importantly how many do you see on the podium after the race. Carli puts what he thinks is the best parts in his best kit all his other kits are a compromise to get to a lower price point to sell to a wider customer base.

 

[Bob4x4]

Fox has upped their game in the last few years and have been on the Podium a good bit. It seems that they are trying to gain market share. Bilstein and King are both harder to work with and require large buy-ins to give you a part number of your own.

Carli has developed and implemented his own piston design for the King shocks to make it react the way he wants for a street driven wanna race in the desert pkg... ... ...

We are trying to use desert race shocks on the street and still make them work well at speed off road.

Kore was an example of run what I want you to and like it valving.

Carli has been improving the off road abilities and preserving the good street ride.

It will take your shock guy MANY hours to come up with the same quality ride you can buy off the shelf at my favorite off road shop. It is a very steep learning curve to make a 7-8klb truck work well on both the street an dirt. Access to King's new shock dyno and many trips to the dirt here and Baja with the behemoths we drive is a unique niche

 

[LVJUNIOR]

I agree with you on the r&d bob but my truck weighs 2000# more than what carli tuned with and the difference in cost for king 3. 0 and fox 3. 0 is pretty substantial. Even if I could afford the kings the carli valving wouldn't work for my truck out of the box

 

[Skyd Ram]

I have the Bilstein 2. 65s with ACV reservoirs on my truck as part of Carli's new 6" radius arm kit. They have made big strides in the valving over the last year especially after incorporating the ACV's into that shock. Even with 6" of lift and 37's on my 9000lb 4th Gen the truck rides incredible yet still has a very sporty feel to it. Oo.

 

[LVJUNIOR]

Why does your truck weight so much? Isn't normal curb weight closer to 7000#

 

[Bob4x4]

I agree with you on the r&d bob but my truck weighs 2000# more than what carli tuned with and the difference in cost for king 3. 0 and fox 3. 0 is pretty substantial. Even if I could afford the kings the carli valving wouldn't work for my truck out of the box

Got it... ... ..... Carli has done many trucks with cabover campers too so he has a computor full of valve profiles.

I had Foxes before the kings,for some reason they just did not like to stay sealed. Had them rebuilt,revalved and sold them. The first owner sold them off again,the next owner sold them then I lost track of who ended up with them

 

[LVJUNIOR]

Sounds like you know a lot more about this stuff than the average bear Bob. Do you have a shop. People like you with real world experience with the products is why I joined TDR. I spent a lot of money on parts learning the lesson that most people on this forum jump on the whatever is popular band wagon. It is refreshing to have a meaningful discussion. I have learned a few things from the back and forth on this thread