LORENZindustries.com Suspension Group Buy

[Lorenz]

LORENZindustries.com group buy.



Let me introduce ourselves by saying we want to stir things up a bit when it comes to Race Quality Suspensions.



While saying this, I want to let all TDR members know up front that I have a gentlemen’s agreement and a handshake from most of the players in the business that we are all going to keep it clean! All of us including Sage from “CARLI”, Greg Boardman from “DRC”, Victor of “T-REX”, and myself representing “LORENZindustries.com”, have agreed that there will be NO trash talking, NO defamation of an others product or name, and only facts drawn from EVIDENCE in describing our own products. We truly hope, and ask as an industry, that our customers come to the conversation with the same frame of mind…



Now, rules and group hugs aside, :-laf let the competition begin! I openly invite everybody; Boardman, Sage, Kent, and Victor to this thread in order to add, correct, or help inform TDR members.



All prices are clearly marked on our website LORENZindustries.com . All products can be had separately or in a kit!



The heart of our system is the RACE RUNNER Shock by SWAY-a-WAY. All other components in my view are an aid to the Race Shocks. Coils and Leaf springs help adjust ride height and increase or decrease the GAWR of our trucks, but it is the Race Shock and it’s adjustable valving that makes up 75% the driving characteristics that we all strive for as dieselheads.



My hope is to educate TDR members and remove the “black magic” associated with valving and truck handling in order to aspire everybody to do their own valving and adjusting on their own shocks!



This is why race shocks are so costly. Every component in a Race Shock: from the shock body, to the piston wear rings, to the spherical Teflon lined hiem joints, on down to the shock shafts, are made to be reliable, re-placable, re-buildable and adjustable. All of these virtues roled up into a customer friendly package! I hope that in a couple of months we will see members sharing what they’ve done to the valving of their shocks, running #‘s, sharing valving experiences and bringing a new kind of modifying to TDR!



Here’s a start to the conversation. Valving and Rebuilding a RACE RUNNER SHOCK 101 Scroll to the bottom and click on the “TLT” logo.



I almost forgot… The group buy!



LORENZindustries.com is offering a $150 rebate to the first 25 TDR members who purchase a full kit. (4 Race shocks, a pair of shock towers, a pair of coil springs and a pair of leaf spring. ) I can almost guarantee prices will not stay this low. We’re getting our name out and paying for it through discounted pricing.



Good day,

Sean



I just read through all of that and I’m laughing at myself for sounding so formal. I’ll start acting like a normal guy again, promise! :-laf

 

[Hohn]

OK, I guess I will be one of the first to say THANKS for coming to market. I'll also launch some questions/comments at you.



1) Do the rear shock mounts on a 2nd gen Dodge need any special spacers or bushings to install a Heim-jointed racing shock? If so, what is required?



2) Allow me to say that from my amatuer perspective, the appearance of the welding on the shock towers looks pretty bad. I'd show something that's finished (ground, painted, whatever) if it was MY website.



3) Why are your steel shock towers worth $465/pr when I can get some Thuren Fabrication towers (which are also steel) for $160/pr? What makes your towers worth over twice as much money? Not saying they aren't, or can't be, I just want to know what makes them better.



4) How established is SWAY A WAY in the off-road racing market? I know that they are a HUGE manufacturer, but do they have a long and storied list of race victories to point to?



5) What are the pros and cons of biasing the shock valving towards more compression or rebound? I'm under the impression that a heavy truck (that's oversprung, as CTDs are) should have very light compression damping and heavy rebound damping. Would you agree? why or why not? Are the SAW shocks up to handling the high temps associated with extremely stiff rebound damping??



I'll post more as I think of them. Thanks for being willing to post and accept questions. Hopefully, answers will follow.



Justin

 

[desertbull]

Sean,



All good. I've been saying all along that competition is good for biz... just like racin', without competitors we don't have racin'...



Nice website...



Does this system fit the 2nd Generation trucks? Reason I ask is a few show attendees told me that your system was only for 3rd Generation trucks. . so I was just wondering. I worked every angle to try to make it to the Diesel Fest, however I was working at the first ever Championship Off Road Racing - Nissan Nationals in San Diego over the weekend...



Has this new product been extensively tested in the one and only proving grounds of the off-road world? Reason I ask is that I'm just a bit worried that when I jump my heavy *** Dodge Ram CTD pre-runner/chase truck in the air and being 500 miles south of the US/Mexican border, I want to know that I'll be able to drive home without having to make repairs to the front end.



I've tested the T-Rex system and it survived.

I've tested the KORE sytem and it survived.

I've tested the Carli Suspension system and it survived.



And I'm just not sure from studying your photos of your product that it will be able to survive the harsh environment of the Baja terrain at speed.



I'm headed south tomorrow to log 1500 off-road miles south of the border and my prerun schedule begins on October 22 through November 16 for multiple trips. Let's hook up and get together and run hard south on the Baja 1000 race course. Oo.



A perfect test is running south from San Felipe to LA Bay via Calamajue Wash all at speed... its not for the light hearted. The rest have passed the brutal testing process... bring your truck and let's put it through the test of the Baja off-road world...



Congrats on your new product... glad to see others in the game.



Rock On! Oo.



PS... Can't wait to hear from RMuffles on this one! ROTFLMAO

 

[kparker]

"Let me introduce ourselves by saying we want to stir things up a bit when it comes to Race Quality Suspensions. "



Well introduce yourself then? Who are you, what are your credentials, and how much tested product do you have out there? A few questions that might should be answered in your formal introduction. I don't mean to be harsh, but let everyone know why they should buy your stuff. Price alone? Superior quality? My KORE stuff is pretty damn good quality, but I wouldn't have bought it just because Kent Kroeker posted a group buy. Educate us!



I think Hohn has a good point. Invest in some rustoleom for the website photos.



With that being said, thanks for bringing us yet another suspension option.



KP

 

[blake underwood]

I don't think I'll be the only one to say this BUT, those shock towers look weak, overpriced, and well . . . BAD . I don't see the benefit of them over the stock towers, except I guess they're compatable w/ resivoir shocks. JMHO



The rest of the suspension looks rock solid though, I'm just leary of your towers. Have you done any harsh testing w/them on our 7000 lb. trucks yet.

 

[CIverson]

I don't think I'll be the only one to say this BUT, those shock towers look weak, overpriced, and well . . . BAD . I don't see the benefit of them over the stock towers, except I guess they're compatable w/ resivoir shocks. JMHO



The rest of the suspension looks rock solid though, I'm just leary of your towers. Have you done any harsh testing w/them on our 7000 lb. trucks yet.

Ditto! And maybe 30-50 bucks in steel at retail prices.



Also, what is with the comparison of steel to aluminum on the site? Only towers I know of that are aluminum are the KORE towers and they are huge chunk of billet aluminum, not plate (as used in your comparison).

 

[ohnoitsyu]

I have to agree on what was said regarding the welds on the towers - not so good. A nice photo would have been a confidence booster. Also as asked, what is the advantage of these over some of the lesser-priced towers?



My biggest concern/interest is the valving. Yes, I believe that most of the high cost of the KORE system is the valving. The valves themselves are relatively cheap. It's the knowhow behind what determines the KORE valving that their customers are paying for. It sounds like you want your customers to research valving for your parts package (it's not a suspension system, it's a box of parts - so it seems; I could be way wrong). I don't want to break my $40k truck while learning what the valving should be for optimum performance. I'd rather pay someone else to do that. Besides, the time, diesel, nitrogen, and other costs associated aren't worth it for me (even though I am the kind of guy who would normally do that). The costs are tremendous - not only is it my truck, but my life, especially with the way I sometimes drive (do you know the Goat trail on the way to Valley T?). While I don't have much experience with my new truck offroad, I'm usually one to find limits - by stepping over them. I'd rather the limits be in my driving, not the truck's. If I'm confident in my truck, then I can work my limits.



I don't doubt your capabilities or your parts' potential, but before I invested in a complete system, I'd like to know more.

 

[ROCKJEEP]

I'd have to hope those are not the production towers. I've made tons of stuff for the jeep for less and much better. Your comparison between steel and aluminum is also nonvalid. Kore uses a high grade then that sheet material. There also milled from one solid block. If your going to come here and jump in the market and talk bad ***, then show a quality product. The rest is off the shelf products.

Kory

 

[joaker]

Well, it is a welcome sight to see another in the suspension world, I for one am looking forward to seing what there is out there... So do you have diffferent "levels" of full kits available, kind of like Kore? Is it possible to get a price list for each? I am also in agreement with a couple of the others on this thread, for future reference, it would likely be in your best interest to work on the cosmetic aspect of your unique shocktowers, as we all know, that is unfortunately the pretty much the first thing that sells a product. And I too am curious as to what extras would be required to make this setup work on our 2nd Gen trucks. I look forward to any additional information and some info on "real worl testing". . thanks

 

[Lorenz]

1) I have not had my system on a 2nd gen. truck. After taking some measurements of a couple TDR member’s 2nd gen trucks at the High desert round up I think I can squeeze our towers in the 2nd gen. If they are too tall I can have my laser cutter shorten them for a 2nd gen before production. So if your looking at our system for a second gen give us a couple of weeks.



2) With that said I made the towers as tall as I possibly could. These measurements are based around my truck, an '03. The reason for LORENZindustries towers being taller than what is on the market now, is because I found that a standard 10" King and 10” Fox would bump on itself instead of the factory bump stops when the suspension was fully compressed. Using a $350 shock as a bump stop is a no-no. I could replace the stock bump stops with longer ones and limit the up travel by another 1-2” or get the correct length shock, and make a system that produces a True 10“ of travel around the correct length shock. Basically the standard 10” Fox and KING shocks are too long. King is now making a custom 9” shock for this application because their 10“ shock is too long in compressed form. (I can get KING shocks if a customer request, notice the logo on the site) A 10” FOX shock is even longer than a KING This is one reason I chose to carry and advertise SAW shocks. A FULL un-modified 10” SAW will fit the Dodge application.



STANDARD LENGTH FOR 2. 5 SERIES 10” SHOCKS WHEN FULLY COMPRESSED

19. 5” FOX

18. 375” KING

16. 87” BILSTIEN WELD TOPS

16. 75” SAW



For those with existing system I would ask that you take out a tape measure. Measure the distance between your axel and the stock bump stop and compare this with the travel that you have left in your shock. I’m hoping somebody will chime in hear with some pictures of their system because it is easier to see in pictures than it is to explain it in writing.



3) The “unfinished” prototype picture on my web. The welds are strong, They’ve been on my truck for a couple of months while testing different shocks and valving. If you saw them at the show you could tell, I guess the picture is a little deceiving. Heat/penetration marks are uniform on all of our welds. I guess I’m a little particular about that pair of towers. They’re the first ones of that design. They were hand cut by me, my plasma cutter, and my band saw and they’re the ones that have stood through the testing. I guess it’s kind of like being a parent. No matter how ugly your kid is your still gonna love him. As DR Laura says “No mom thinks they have the UGLY kid” I guess this is a bad marketing decision on my part so your right I will change out the picture with a more finished looking product. Thanks for the advise



Also that pair is unfinished so that I can see any cracks that could develop. Most race cars are not powder coated or painted for that particular reason. You want to see the cracks if they happen. I made these towers out of . 120 wall steel with a backing of 3/16” to see if the design would fail with thinner wall material. I wanted to see the weak links on the engineering side of the project if there are any. Our production run is made of . 200 wall and are backed by 1 ¼” billet 1018 steel.



We may have to hook up for some Desert bull punishment at the end of the month. Understand we’ve tested our own towers too…



4) SWAY-a-WAY is producing custom reducers for our shocks so they are a direct bolt on.



5) My KING shocks are set up with at 12 stack on the compression side and a 15 stack on the rebound. I found that it works with the 580 rate coil in the front. Even when loaded down with my camper the front end stays with in the same relative weight. I’m looking at 80-100lb more on the front axel with my camper loaded. It’s the rear that has caused me the most finiking and playing. I tow a camper on the back and need some extra rebound when its on. I also need some more spring rate in the leafs. (I don’t recommend our leaf pack when towing a camper, stock factory leafs work better for this) Adding spring rate means that I need to add rebound dampening to slow down the springs. Here’s were the trade off comes. If your raging empty off road, or carrying considerable weight out back your rear will need to be a bit harder on the compression side to soak up the hit. Making the rear stiffer makes the freeway ride “jolty”. Having a stiffer spring pack either with air bags or the stock leaf means that you will need more reabound in the shock to slow down the spring. This is why our ¾ ton trucks don’t ride like a caddy when empty, the factory makes the rear stiffer so we can carry loads. Now back to the trade off. I’m sure most TDR members have different wants when it comes to driving empty, driving loaded, using your truck a daily driver on Los Angeles expansion joints, cruising cross country with your family, or off-roading in Glamis or Baja, is it a work truck loaded down with tools most of the time? This is were the TDR membership comes in and shares they're experience. I’m going to ship our shock with what I have found to work with our lighter leaf pack and heavier front coil. If you want something else send me an email, I will accommodate any custom, one-off valving for the same price, I just need to know ahead of time. I hate sounding cliché, but “not everybody is going to want the same feel” or ride quality. It’s not like adding horsepower, more isn’t always better.



I’m sure there are better “valvers”, even profesional “valvers”out there that are reading this and would ask you guys to chime in, I’m still learning. Desertbull…?



6) I haven’t seen Thurens product. They sound like a steal at 160/pr.



7) As far as the SAW question’s go, I’m going to refer to the man himself Ryan Shimp, director of sales and marketing for SWAY-a-WAY. Notice, as TDR members, we haven't heard directly from any shock company's representative. SAW is stepping up to the plate to take some hard questions along side of us. My experience with SAW has been superb. I have run them on my pre-runner and any problem that I ran into were addressed by the company. I have a pair of Bilstien bypass shock that are going to be run right next to the SAW coil overs on the pre-runner as well as Fox hydraulic bumps waiting their turn on the self in my garage. I use what I can get my hands on for my pre-runner, even if it isn’t out fitted with solely one company I use has worked for racers in race conditions. I’m personally not sold on one particular company seeing as they all have their act together from my experience. Now ask a whole lot of people about any one company and you’ll get horror stories about them all. I’ve had many comments, from many people, at different stages of our development, with regards to all the brands. To say that everybody has an opinion about shock companies is understated. I have yet run into anybody who has personally tried most products from all the companies!



Sean

 

[Lorenz]

These pictures are from this weekends "High Desert Round Up". We used these billet and laser cut samples at our booth.



Pics by member jdervedrossian



Thanks to Jderbedrossian for taking the comparison pics.

This is the prototype type tower on my truck at the show. It is the same prototype that was on my site, and the same tower I discribed above. (KORE/DRC top, CARLI middle, LORENZ bottom)



Notice the bottom of the KING's shock body, and were it is in relation to the frame and stock bump stop. A 10" KING, like the one I had on my truck at the time, does not fit the Dodge application w/o bumping on itself at full compression! SWAY-a-WAY shocks are more than 1. 6 inches shorter, meaning a 10" SAW will fit, and allow for a true 1. 625 inches of usable up travel. Add another 3/4 of an inch the LORENZ shock tower provides to the equasion, and you have a system that has 32% more usable travel were it counts! And then, (If I haven't been long winded enough), add the ability to use an honest 10" travel Race shock. These are provable reasons or system is superior. I did my homework in sorting out measurments.



Remember these calculations are based on a stock bumpstop that Dodge engineers felt were the best measument for our truck. We don't offer another bump stop. I encorage more questions about this subject because I am confident in our design. And I'm just as confident I lost alot of people in my explination.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Hey Guys,

Give Sean a break on the prototype towers. I talked with him extensively at the HDDR and he is a stand up guy. He was more than happy to answer all of my questions about his system. We did disagree on a couple of aspects of the suspension world. Not a big deal. Competition, like the Desert Bull says, is a good thing for all of us. The more people who see high end suspension the better for everybody. I have made an offer to Sean about possibly selling products for him, Carli too. No response from Carli yet but Lorenz and I at least have dialog. Even the mighty Kent Kroeker said that Sean Lorenz called him to introduce himself, which in my opinion is the way to handle business, as a comrade not a competitor.

For me as a distributor, I feel like a solid test is in order to prove everyones products. We all know that I have been selling the KORE products for a while and I do a lot of R&D for KORE too. The evidence of product satisfaction is apparent in our loyal customers calling to discuss new products hitting the market and their dissatisfaction with the way things have been handled before. I applaud Sean in his efforts to not turn this into a "transmission Thread". I wish him the best of luck and hope to see more of him in the future...



Greg DRC

 

[RVTRKN]

Hey Sean, just want to let you know I was impressed with your system and look forward to doing business with you to smooth out my trucks ride on pavment when I get out of the hospital for my kidney surgery. I'm not an avid 4X4 man, just like boating and snowsking. You have the only system that I have heard of thats able to adjust for smooth ride with quality HD material PS My daughter thinks your is T-Shirt is awsome!

 

[SCarli]

I would have to agree with greg that sean is a stand up guy! I had not heard of Lorenze industries before the show, but I think his attitude and ideas will take his business far. It is always nice to to see someone willing to take a chance in this business. I know first hand what its like to be the new guy. I can only hope that everyone has an open mind with his and all new products. Its exciting to watch this industry grow and I cant wait to see whats to come in the next couple of years.

 

[kparker]

Greg, Carli, relax guys. It doesn't seem as if anyone here is questioning whether or not Lorenz is a stand up guy? More of those feelings have recently been aimed in the direction of one of you. Let's not include this guy in that mess. In my eyes, it really doesn't even seem like an overly negative theme is prevailing here. I think it is understandable, and I am sure Lorenz does too, that people are questioning his new product. He admitted that afterall, his original pictures left a little to be desired. Fair enough, he posted different ones. As for the durability of his towers, can you two honestly say you didn't even slightly raise an eyebrow? Could be they turn out to be a nice, rugged little component. I think we all just want some good test data, just like Desertbull was saying.



Keep up the good work Lorenz. Just bring back pictures or video clips of you bashing that truck around like Boardman does.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Not ME!!! :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[SCarli]

tested

me neither!!!

 

[Lorenz]

Videos and pics of the suspension at work was always part of the plan. It will come, I'm still fighting time issues. I envisioned a remote camera in the wheel well, and a couple of shots from under the truck at speed over the nasty stuff the So Cal desert has to offer. Air and jumping always looks good, but for liability reasons, the lawyers will make me say that Off roading is dangerous and can cause serious injury or death. I planned for video on my site. I bought enough bandwidth up front to post small clip. I was hoping to have it for the HDDR on our flat screen, but time is my worst enemy at this point. I have always felt that I needed to prove my product to the public. So the questioning is welcome.



I'm encourage that we now have a public conversation with most of the players in the suspension biz. TDR members will have a jewel in this thread, If we continue this way. Greg, our sexy T-shirt model is officially named after you, everybody needs a raging tattoo artist on their side.





"RVTRKN" You have the only system that I have heard of thats able to adjust for smooth ride with quality HD material PS My daughter thinks your T-Shirt is awsome!"



I hope I gave you that shirt? My wife is great at what she does, I'll let her know she has happy clientele with her design.





"joaker" Well, it is a welcome sight to see another in the suspension world, I for one am looking forward to seing what there is out there... So do you have diffferent "levels" of full kits available, kind of like Kore? Is it possible to get a price list for each?



We have different levels. 2. 5" and 2. 0" series shocks. Each shock can be had as either an Emulsion, Remote Remote Reservoir, or Piggy Back version. I highly recommend the 2. 5 series Remote Reservoir shock in the front and 2. 5 Piggy back shock in the back for our trucks. The weight of the cummins doesn't work AS well with a 2. 0. The Bilstein 5100 and 7100 series are 2. 0, we don't carry Bilstein, but offer the SWAY-a-WAY 2. 0 to meet price points. We also market differently than KORE. You can have every part as a kit or you can buy parts 1 by one. If you want the lift spring you can get the lift spring alone. If you want to keep the GAWR of the truck and run stock springs, but want an upgraded, adjustable shock you can have that too. I want to remind everybody again, that I DO NOT recommend our mini pack If your going to run loaded. My Slide in camper, at @2000# was not intended for these leafs.





ROCKJEEP Your comparison between steel and aluminum is also nonvalid. Kore uses a high grade then that sheet material. There also milled from one solid block.



The comparison pic was not a Bash on KORE, but is valid for what it was intended for. If you look as LORENZindustries Towers compared to KORE you will see that our tower is much thinner. Most people would think thinner is not as good until you have an understanding of metals. The bullet hole through 1/4" plate 6160 aluminum shows how soft aluminum is compared to 1/4" mild steel, which shatters bullets. Thus, a thick aluminum KORE tower vs a thinner, 1018 billet and Plate steel LORENZ tower. KORE has proven his design, now it my turn to step up. A customers understanding of Steel and Aluminum is need if Im going to compete with the mighty KORE!





"ohnoitsyu" My biggest concern/interest is the valving. Yes, I believe that most of the high cost of the KORE system is the valving. The valves themselves are relatively cheap. It's the knowhow behind what determines the KORE valving that their customers are paying for.



KING is were I went to get my project off the ground. You can have your race truck personally valve for FREE by KING if you buy their product. They'll personally head out to the local desert with you. (See the attached pic of the KING web site) These are the people that have done most of the R&D for our specific truck. I Quoted Brett King in my very first post. Valving isn't "black magic". Granted it was in a private conversation between me as a customer, and him, and I thought twice about putting that relationship on a public forum, but non-the-less. Valving isn't "Black Magic". With every SWAY-a-WAY shock I sell there is customer friendly instructions on how to remove 3 screw from the shock and change out washers. Ive gave the directions out at the show. I know we throw around big words like 12/15 valve stacks, or hardened steel shafts, and teflon lined spherical hiem joints but I want to steer away from this. Big words inflict intimidation. There is nothing to be intimidated about on a Race Shock, if... you have an 25 cent allen wrench handy!



I want to repeat this because it is so so vital to our industry. Any body can rebuild and revalve a race shock if they have a 21mm deepwell socket and an allen wrench. Access to a welding shop or motorcycle shop for nitrogen would be needed too. (A standard bicycle pump to 75psi will get you to a shop w/o hurting a race shock, BUT Nitrogen WILL be needed)



We as TDR members will spend $800+ on an electronic box, make a few connection, drill a hole in our manifolds for an EGT gauge, and plumb a boost line like it's no problem. I want to do the same for our suspensions. My goal is to have every member post their valving #'s in thier profile with thier other Mods for the rest of the community to see. I'll be the first to start. I figure this will change buisiness for some of us, but all in all, we will get what we have lost in "secrets" back; With additional sales by those who are no longer intimidated by "Race" lingo, we gain an additional customer base. Suspension is now a buisiness of providing quality products, not circling around "black magic". "LORENZindustries is stirring things up" Understand we all benefit as customers and companies!! Prices are lowered and quantity increases.





It was stated earlier that "sean can take it" referring to some of the comments and such. I do take it, and DO expect it. Though it has made me think twice about LORENZindustries and coming to a public forum with it, it affects a person, I don't care who you are. I have found a new understanding and respect, more so now than before, for any company that puts thier head out thier and takes ALL of the public on at once (Cheerleaders are people too :-laf ). Bravo to every company who tries it!



Good day

sean

 

[Lorenz]

Shoot... the picture's dialoge didn't come out. "Greg and the kids!"



I cant believe how much attention a dog and dancing skeleton will draw. Perfect ice breakers, and chick magnets for all the single gentlman out there. I always hated the okward salesman "stare down" from across the way, and the slow "walk around" approach, I hope this worked for those of you at the show. We had a great time.

 

[ohnoitsyu]

Lorenz,

I will say that you do seem like a good guy with good intentions. And by no means do I have anything bad to say. I'll add here, as others have, that's it's great that you're here offering an alternative. Something good that you offer that others aren't is the ability to allow the customers to build their setup either as the budget allows or as needs change. Although I understand why KORE does not do this since some combinations may not perform well, and they don't want their customers to blame their mismatched combination on them.



I am not intimidated by valving. I've spent a lot of time setting up downhill mountain bike suspension as well as desert motorcycles. While the terminology of the valves varies from shock to shock, those numbers are simply used to identify various valves or combination of valves.



In my valving experience (which I'm sure as a whole is considerably less than yours, and it does not include any valving on automotive shocks), I've learned that it can be quite time consuming. It's not just the actual valving of the shocks or the R&R of the shocks, it's a matter of finding a particular course that contains most of the conditions you want to set the shocks up for. It's also a matter of maintaining discipline and consistency in the testing procedures (e. g. , no changing tire types/sizes while also trying to find a better tire). I'd like to think that KORE followed this - maybe they did, and maybe they didn't - but the illusion is that they did. A normal consumer could easily spend weeks narrowing their valving setup down to something acceptable. And if you only have one set of shocks, it can be a real bummer to drive to the desert and say "Nope - not gonna work" over the first whoop.



Also in my experience on downhill bikes and dirt bikes, I've found some bad combinations. It can be really scary when a bike starts swapping at 70+ mph due to a bad setup. Granted, worse case with the truck is that it would just not handle well (thereby forcing the driver to reduce speeds), but there are many cases where the poor handling vehicle can get you into trouble (e. g. , the Goat trail, as I mentioned).



Having said all that, I'm still tempted to try and do my own valving. However, as aggressive as I'd like to get with this truck, I probably won't go that far. I do need to make my truck more offroad worthy, though - stock just isn't cutting it. I've been contemplating a KORE Chase setup, but the springs included with that kit may lift my truck to high to fit in my garage, which is why I am considering the components you're offering.