Losing confidence

[kah68]

I am losing confidence in D/C ( as well as Ford and G. M. ). To ask the general public to spend 40-60,000. 00 for a product that has not been thoroughly tested and debugged by the engineers of these companies seem irrisponsible and shows how little they care about there customers and the products they provide to the general public. The other 1/2 of this problem is when things like lift pump troubles leading to injection pump failures, " Killer Dowel Pins " , " 53 " serise engine blocks cracking, track bar and ball joint issues ( just to name a few ) are only looked after as long as the sub standard warranty period is still in effect, this in my opinion is very unacceptable. I love reading about how very ingenious people find ways to fix and upgrade there trucks and share there information with others, but these big ticket items as listed above are real killers to most of us either in the wallet , or in downtime or both. Wouldn't it be nice if the big 3 would stand behinde there product ? How would you like to get a letter from D/C stating that " We know about your potential 53 block issue and would like to offer repair or replacement should your engine show signs of this problem in the future". Or how about " D/C recognises the lift pump on 19** - 20** trucks have been under designed and we are pleased to offer a new pump design to you at a deeply discounted price with no labor charge involved". I would be very impressed and I would pay for the upgrade as my truck is out of warranty and tell everyone I know about what a great company D/C is by standing behinde there product and working with there customers to ensure there satisfaction. I know I know , you say " D. C. will only look at the bottom line on what it will cost them to fix these issues!" Yes and I do the same thing in my business. But I know that when customers are treated fairly and looked after they are LOYAL and REPEAT customers. Willing to pay more for that kind of service ? I sure am ! How about D/C's customer service line? How about the next time you call it, someone giving you a real answer to your question or telling you that they will get back to you and actually doing so in a reasonable amount of time with a good answer. I would love to see some higher up brass in D/C giving the TDR some feed back to our questions and concernes. If the news is bad I want to hear about it, and as long as you have good news about the situation to follow up with that bad news everyone feels like they are in the loop and important to D/C. If you do not have answers to these questions then good for you in admitting so, but make sure you are working on solutuions to these questions or troubles. With all the innovation and luxury todays cars and trucks are offering, I often wonder if they would spend more time and money giving more value for the customer in component quality and durability and less on the frills of adjustable pedals and sunroofs. I like these items but I will take a better built truck over these creature comforts any day ( and I would pay more too! ) All in all my dealings with companies such as D/C has left me feeling less than satisfied and if someone would turn there outlook on customers and product development and quality around giving us more value ( in terms of a better longer lasting vehicle )I would be a loyal buyer of there products.



Kirk Holden

 

[WBusa]

I feel your pain, kah68... some of the engineering issues on our trucks are kind-of inexcusable. Still, I can't help loving my truck, and I thank God nightly for the TDR. Like somebody around here says in his sig: "I bought a Cummins and it came wrapped in a Dodge"

 

[biggieou]

I totally agree with you. One of the big reason's people have to pay so much for these vehicles, is because DC, Ford, GM and whoever else, is forced to pay those lazy workers they have 20-30 bucks an hour to do absolutely nothing, and give them great benefits as well. If they could do away with those bleepin #@$%! unions then maybe we could have an affordable product.



I now step off of my soap box

 

[AfterBurner]

I totally agree with you. One of the big reason's people have to pay so much for these vehicles, is because DC, Ford, GM and whoever else, is forced to pay those lazy workers they have 20-30 bucks an hour to do absolutely nothing, and give them great benefits as well. If they could do away with those bleepin #@$%! unions then maybe we could have an affordable product.



I now step off of my soap box

Acorrding to the Wall Street Journal, GM's health plan for the workers, costs an extra $1500 per car. Medicine to fight obecity and smoking alone, costs them over $200 million!!! That is insanity! An then the Unions have the guts to cry about companies out sourcing???? Something is not right here.

Right now Wal-mart is in a big battle with Unions, who are trying to force them to employ union workers. If they win, Wal-Mart won't be what it is now, their overhead would go through the roof. "All froms of government and economy move towards communism... "

 

[biggieou]

Yea I hate to step on anyone's toe's, but my God do I hate unions. At one time they were needed, but the demands they want and get today is the equivalent to an armed stick up.

 

[Regcabguy]

I too have read the article on G. M. 's cost for union benefits but do you really think if they all went non-union that the cost savings would go into product improvement? I doubt it. The CEO's would skim off the savings once again and the consumer of these vehicles would eat it again! Somehow Honda,Toyota and Nissan provide a decent wage,retirement,health coverage and a well engineered product without the U. A. W. Our 2005 Pilot is only 10% Japanese content, built here with domestic parts and labor. It can be done.

 

[y-knot]

Look Biggieou, you took a great thread and turned it into a Union bashing pill of crape. Not sure about your real mental ability, but you really make yourself sound STUPID. Know one gives anyone anything, those people, both men and woman, work very hard for their money. From the folks in Columbus Indiana that assemble the Cummins engine we love to tote about to the people in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana that build sub assemblies to trucks, they all earn their pay. You seem to have a problem with people that make more then the Federal minimum wage, What gives? 20-30 dollars an hour as you stated isn't that much for a person to make. Everything is going up much faster then the amount people are earning, most people haven't gotten a decent raise in years, and you want to RAG on someone that obviously earn more then YOU. If you want to get your piece of the pie, go back to school, or get a talent but leave others alone that are ahead of you. Autoworkers and others that assemble all the parts and pieces that go into a vehicle work very hard, they have to do the same repetitive movements all day, and they have to do it right every time. Sure things happen, we are all human, so thats normal but by and large they do a great job day in and out. For the record, the average autoworker makes closer to $35. 00/hour, just like the pipe-fitters make $36. 00/hour or the Electricians make $34. 00/hour (scale depends on the region). All of these people work very hard for their money (theirs a song in that) they are exposed to constant dangers and changing weather. I have no problem with the average man trying to make as much as he can, they could most time double their wages and it still would not be enough. Working people are just that, they work their whole life and just get by. Know one that works for a living is ever going to get rich, management and others with the same attitude as you see to that. But most I know do not want to get rich, they would just like to get paid a fair wage for what they do. Not sure what your profession is, but who do you think buys all these 40 thousand dollar trucks? I'll give you a hint, it's not anyone working for minimum wage. I have worked all of my life, and for much more then what you are complaining about, but I earned every red cent.

 

[biggieou]

Look Biggieou, you took a great thread and turned it into a Union bashing pill of crape. Not sure about your real mental ability, but you really make yourself sound STUPID. Know one gives anyone anything, those people, both men and woman, work very hard for their money. From the folks in Columbus Indiana that assemble the Cummins engine we love to tote about to the people in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana that build sub assemblies to trucks, they all earn their pay. You seem to have a problem with people that make more then the Federal minimum wage, What gives? 20-30 dollars an hour as you stated isn't that much for a person to make. Everything is going up much faster then the amount people are earning, most people haven't gotten a decent raise in years, and you want to RAG on someone that obviously earn more then YOU. If you want to get your piece of the pie, go back to school, or get a talent but leave others alone that are ahead of you. Autoworkers and others that assemble all the parts and pieces that go into a vehicle work very hard, they have to do the same repetitive movements all day, and they have to do it right every time. Sure things happen, we are all human, so thats normal but by and large they do a great job day in and out. For the record, the average autoworker makes closer to $35. 00/hour, just like the pipe-fitters make $36. 00/hour or the Electricians make $34. 00/hour (scale depends on the region). All of these people work very hard for their money (theirs a song in that) they are exposed to constant dangers and changing weather. I have no problem with the average man trying to make as much as he can, they could most time double their wages and it still would not be enough. Working people are just that, they work their whole life and just get by. Know one that works for a living is ever going to get rich, management and others with the same attitude as you see to that. But most I know do not want to get rich, they would just like to get paid a fair wage for what they do. Not sure what your profession is, but who do you think buys all these 40 thousand dollar trucks? I'll give you a hint, it's not anyone working for minimum wage. I have worked all of my life, and for much more then what you are complaining about, but I earned every red cent.

I dont know how much education you have, but I'm sure I have just as much if not more than you. I know quite a few autoworkers(current and retired) and its pretty funny that they all joke about how much work they DONT do! Electricians, Plumbers etc, they work, autoworkers do not do the same thing, that is comparing apples to oranges. I never said they needed to make minimum wage, but for what they actually DO and what they are paid and compensated for are two totally different things. I've talked to guys that have gone in and slept for their 8 hour shift, not once in awhile, but a couple times a week. And then on top of this "hard work" there are still quality control issues with their products?? Maybe they need to get more educated people in their to work instead of paying garbage 35 dollars an hour to do nothing. Unions protect people who dont want to work, not people who do.

And to say that I sound stupid. I'm sorry I'm not the one personally bashing someone, I can express my opinions in other ways, but maybe that has to do with my education :-laf

 

[Coolslice]

The treatment you desire is how I was treated when I owned Toyotas. I had a 4runner that was at least 40,000 miles /4 years out of warranty and blew a head gasket. A Toyota rep contacted me and said that they were aware of the sub-standard head gaskets and to have one blow was quote- "Unacceptable".

They sent me a check to cover repairs. After that I swore I would never own anything but Toyotas, and look at me now! :-laf I will say that as soon as Toyota releases their HD diesel pickup in the next year or so, it's bye bye to DC. DC just seems to have a few simple bugs that could have easily been corrected, but they chose to deny it and keep right on going, Toyota does not do that, unless someone can give me a large scale example??



Flame suit is on for suggesting Toyota cares more about happy customers than DC does... :-laf

 

[Coolslice]

I dont know how much education you have, but I'm sure I have just as much if not more than you. I know quite a few autoworkers(current and retired) and its pretty funny that they all joke about how much work they DONT do! Electricians, Plumbers etc, they work, autoworkers do not do the same thing, that is comparing apples to oranges. I never said they needed to make minimum wage, but for what they actually DO and what they are paid and compensated for are two totally different things. I've talked to guys that have gone in and slept for their 8 hour shift, not once in awhile, but a couple times a week. And then on top of this "hard work" there are still quality control issues with their products?? Maybe they need to get more educated people in their to work instead of paying garbage 35 dollars an hour to do nothing. Unions protect people who dont want to work, not people who do.

And to say that I sound stupid. I'm sorry I'm not the one personally bashing someone, I can express my opinions in other ways, but maybe that has to do with my education :-laf

I can assure you that this doesn't happen at the Japanese plants. Here at the Toyota Camry plant, people often sue for being overworked. Lots of blown joints and such. I went to college with a guy who had a 1990 Dodge spirit or something. He was in a wreck and took the car to the body shop and they found a beer bottle inside the door!! :-laf

 

[biggieou]

I can assure you that this doesn't happen at the Japanese plants. Here at the Toyota Camry plant, people often sue for being overworked. Lots of blown joints and such. I went to college with a guy who had a 1990 Dodge spirit or something. He was in a wreck and took the car to the body shop and they found a beer bottle inside the door!! :-laf

Hey I believe you in reference to the Camry plant. How many times have you heard of quality control issues on those cars? I cant think of many off the top of my head.



Did your buddy buy that car new, or used, because maybe the previous owner stuck it in there or something? If not, thankyou for proving my point

 

[Coolslice]

Hey I believe you in reference to the Camry plant. How many times have you heard of quality control issues on those cars? I cant think of many off the top of my head.



Did your buddy buy that car new, or used, because maybe the previous owner stuck it in there or something? If not, thankyou for proving my point

He bought it new if I remember right. :-laf I don't know exactly how much difference there is between plant workers of domestic and foreign makers plants, because they both employ Americans. I think problems come from the top and grow from there. Obviously Toyota has a differnt philosophy on quality and customer satisfaction than DC does, the workers just iterate things.

I really have no idea if unions are partially to blame, but to the best of my knowledge, Toyotas works are NOT unionized? I see your point though.

 

[DGFoster]

Look Biggieou, you took a great thread and turned it into a Union bashing pill of crape. Not sure about your real mental ability, but you really make yourself sound STUPID. Know one gives anyone anything, those people, both men and woman, work very hard for their money. From the folks in Columbus Indiana that assemble the Cummins engine we love to tote about to the people in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana that build sub assemblies to trucks, they all earn their pay. You seem to have a problem with people that make more then the Federal minimum wage, What gives? 20-30 dollars an hour as you stated isn't that much for a person to make. Everything is going up much faster then the amount people are earning, most people haven't gotten a decent raise in years, and you want to RAG on someone that obviously earn more then YOU. If you want to get your piece of the pie, go back to school, or get a talent but leave others alone that are ahead of you. Autoworkers and others that assemble all the parts and pieces that go into a vehicle work very hard, they have to do the same repetitive movements all day, and they have to do it right every time. Sure things happen, we are all human, so thats normal but by and large they do a great job day in and out. For the record, the average autoworker makes closer to $35. 00/hour, just like the pipe-fitters make $36. 00/hour or the Electricians make $34. 00/hour (scale depends on the region). All of these people work very hard for their money (theirs a song in that) they are exposed to constant dangers and changing weather. I have no problem with the average man trying to make as much as he can, they could most time double their wages and it still would not be enough. Working people are just that, they work their whole life and just get by. Know one that works for a living is ever going to get rich, management and others with the same attitude as you see to that. But most I know do not want to get rich, they would just like to get paid a fair wage for what they do. Not sure what your profession is, but who do you think buys all these 40 thousand dollar trucks? I'll give you a hint, it's not anyone working for minimum wage. I have worked all of my life, and for much more then what you are complaining about, but I earned every red cent.

AMEN BROTHER:

 

[WBusa]

One of the big reason's people have to pay so much for these vehicles, is because DC, Ford, GM and whoever else, is forced to pay those lazy workers they have 20-30 bucks an hour to do absolutely nothing

Uhh... I don't know about yours, but mine was assembled in Mexico... the land of no unions! I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing those guys are lucky to see $30 a day!.

 

[TFucili]

Not so simple...

I totally agree with you. One of the big reason's people have to pay so much for these vehicles, is because DC, Ford, GM and whoever else, is forced to pay those lazy workers they have 20-30 bucks an hour to do absolutely nothing, and give them great benefits as well. If they could do away with those bleepin #@$%! unions then maybe we could have an affordable product.



I now step off of my soap box

I'm not a pro-union sort of guy, and as an independent businessman, I can only dream of the bennies they are provided ad-infinitum, BUT to lay the woes of the US auto industry at their doorstep is flatly irresponsible. How about the executives who take home obscene salaries, PLUS ridiculous bonuses and options, while making short sighted, dim-witted decisions that create the very problems that are noted here on a daily basis. Back in the glory days when Detroit ruled the Earth, and everyone was fat and happy, they let the genie out of the bottle. How many times have the Not So Big Three had near death experiences, made somewhat of a comeback, and then threw away those record earnings, instead of improving quality and becoming truly competetive with the Japanese. There's PLENTY of blame to go around, but never forget it's the stuffed shirt MORONS who call the shots and are ultimately responsible.

 

[biggieou]

I'm not a pro-union sort of guy, and as an independent businessman, I can only dream of the bennies they are provided ad-infinitum, BUT to lay the woes of the US auto industry at their doorstep is flatly irresponsible. How about the executives who take home obscene salaries, PLUS ridiculous bonuses and options, while making short sighted, dim-witted decisions that create the very problems that are noted here on a daily basis. Back in the glory days when Detroit ruled the Earth, and everyone was fat and happy, they let the genie out of the bottle. How many times have the Not So Big Three had near death experiences, made somewhat of a comeback, and then threw away those record earnings, instead of improving quality and becoming truly competetive with the Japanese. There's PLENTY of blame to go around, but never forget it's the stuffed shirt MORONS who call the shots and are ultimately responsible.

Your right. I'm sorry if my posts made it seem like I was laying total blame on the unions, because thats not totally what I meant. Yes they are partly to blame, but like you said so is the corporate head of those ugly monsters. Its a trickle down effect, and unfortunatley garbage is on top and thats whats trickles down. It's sad because I for one am Pro-American, but the quality care and the product that you receive from the Big-3 is horrendous compared to the Japanese.

 

[Joe G.]

The inadequate design of the KDP, 53 block, front end, transmission, brakes, etc, etc, etc, is not the fault of the union guys working on the line. The recalls I have had done to my truck were all design errors. Poor assembly of the truck is their fault, but to blame them for design failures is wrong.

 

[rkressg]

It is called TQM (or refereed to as 6-sigma) by Deming (1940's). An American Idea that almost killed the US car market in the 1970's. The Japanese realized that a zero defect policy was the answer and adopted it with alacrity. Only by near failure did any change occur within the 'Big-3'. Today, it looks like the 'Big-3' are beginning to slip down that 'slippery slope' again with poor QC.



I do not support union mentalities, but I also do not support the ignorance of upper management. Poor quality of products, though occurring on the assembly line, does not start there. It starts when management ignores the problems; producing a festering issue. When management does not attempt to eliminate the problems propagated by ignorance failure occurs. The American Auto industry needs fix QC issues and build a product that is designed to laster longer than 3 years.



Although I can not state this as a fact, I believe that the American Auto Industry only wants vehicles to last three years, resulting in the general public purchasing a new vehicle often, greasing the ever deepening pockets of these corporations.



Sorry for ranting.

-Rich

 

[Coolslice]

Although I can not state this as a fact, I believe that the American Auto Industry only wants vehicles to last three years, resulting in the general public purchasing a new vehicle often, greasing the ever deepening pockets of these corporations.



Sorry for ranting.

-Rich

I've heard this also, with respect to the engines. I certainly think there is evidence to support it. Take a look at resale values. The market knows what is more likely to last and resale reflects it accordingly.

 

[J&LRam]

When the unions are gone who are the wackos gonna' blame ?? Sounds like some of you kids need to grow up . I bought my first truck in '58. a GMC, and have bought lots of trucks since and for a fact the newer gen trucks are superior to the older gen trucks. Japanese superior ?? Big pile of BS . Apparently some of you Jap apoligests were not here when Jap cars/trucks first imported into this country. They were junk.

There never has been A PERFECT TRUCK or never will be. I think we've got a generation of WHINNERS that need to look at what is really happenin'. Grow up and quit stabbin' the workin' folks in the back... ... ... ... ..... JIM