Low RPM Vibration - 2005 NV5600

[boonhauler]

I'm new to TDR and was hoping to find some answers here to a few problems my truck is experiencing.



I have a 2005 Q/C 3500 4x4 with an NV5600. The build date is Oct 2004 and I've been told it's a 2004. 5?



My problem is at low engine RPM (well moving) I get a shuttering type vibration. Once the RPM's come up it goes away.



I'm thinking this could be a problem with the Dual Mass Flywheel and that it's time to replace the entire Clutch and Flywheel assembly.



The truck has 136k on the stock assembly.



Any ideas as to what the problem might be?



Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

 

[Slow Six]

Could just be a u-joint. A dry u-joint does strange things on these trucks.

 

[JLandry]

Is the vibration tied into the engine rpm or the truck's speed? Put another way, if you push in the clutch and increase the engine rpm with the truck moving, does the vibration go away?



John L.

 

[HBarlow]

Your truck doesn't have a dual mass flywheel. NV-5600 trucks, late 2000 through mid-2005, used a conventional single mass flywheel and clutch assembly. Both the NV-5600 and the clutch assembly in your truck and earlier ones were stronger and more durable than later trucks with the G-56 and dual mass assembly.

I think what you're hearing is ordinary with your truck and the '01 I owned. If you slow to make a turn and accelerate in third gear the power strokes (not to be confused with the stupid name of Furd/Navistar engines) of the mighty Cummins down at low rpm will rattle the gears in the NV-5600. That is one of the reasons Ram moved to the dual mass assembly - to reduce NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness).

 

[fox]

I'm new to TDR and was hoping to find some answers here to a few problems my truck is experiencing.

I have a 2005 Q/C 3500 4x4 with an NV5600. The build date is Oct 2004 and I've been told it's a 2004. 5?

My problem is at low engine RPM (well moving) I get a shuttering type vibration. Once the RPM's come up it goes away.

I'm thinking this could be a problem with the Dual Mass Flywheel and that it's time to replace the entire Clutch and Flywheel assembly.

The truck has 136k on the stock assembly.

Any ideas as to what the problem might be?

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Harvey is right on the clutch.
You should have reverse to the right and up if you have a nv5600.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Welcome to TDR boonhauler!

Do a search on here for "ultimate NV5600 thread" and you will find lots of good info on the transmission. Also do a search for "upgrade 6. 7 fluid damper" for a thread that explains the benefits of installing a 6. 7 fluid damper on your 5. 9, makes the engine much smoother and reduces the noise you seem to be talking about.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[boonhauler]

Is the vibration tied into the engine rpm or the truck's speed? Put another way, if you push in the clutch and increase the engine rpm with the truck moving, does the vibration go away?



John L.

John:



Thanks for asking, the vibration/growling/shuttering is tied to engine RPM, not road speed. This problem is not a throw bearing type as clutch pedal in or out would tell you.



The drivetrain needs to have a load on it for the vibration to occur.

 

[boonhauler]

Harvey is right on the clutch.

You should have reverse to the right and up if you have a nv5600.

Yes, It's a 5600. When I bought the truck (used with 109k on it) there was a little growling but nothing like it is today. I'm concerned about breaking the truck as I'm going to start towing a heavy trailer so I'd really like to get this fixed.

 

[boonhauler]

Your truck doesn't have a dual mass flywheel. NV-5600 trucks, late 2000 through mid-2005, used a conventional single mass flywheel and clutch assembly. Both the NV-5600 and the clutch assembly in your truck and earlier ones were stronger and more durable than later trucks with the G-56 and dual mass assembly.



I think what you're hearing is ordinary with your truck and the '01 I owned. If you slow to make a turn and accelerate in third gear the power strokes (not to be confused with the stupid name of Furd/Navistar engines) of the mighty Cummins down at low rpm will rattle the gears in the NV-5600. That is one of the reasons Ram moved to the dual mass assembly - to reduce NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness).

Harvey, thanks for clarifying the DMF issue. Wow, just seems like the truck is going to break.....

If you slow to make a turn and accelerate in third gear the power strokes of the mighty Cummins down at low rpm will rattle the gears in the NV-5600.

1st and 2nd gear as well.

 

[S.Morris]

Have you checked the oil? If history of change is vague, change and add 7qt. You will have to put driver side up on ramps to tip fill hole enough to overfill.

 

[boonhauler]

Welcome to TDR boonhauler!



Do a search on here for "ultimate NV5600 thread" and you will find lots of good info on the transmission. Also do a search for "upgrade 6. 7 fluid damper" for a thread that explains the benefits of installing a 6. 7 fluid damper on your 5. 9, makes the engine much smoother and reduces the noise you seem to be talking about.



Godspeed,

Trent

Trent:



Thanks for the heads up on this thread, I just read though it. When I bought the truck I had the 100k service done to it. ALL fluids were changed out and I remenber the shop commenting on the transmission oil being a OEM product and it costing alot. I would have to think they just filled it to the top of the filler hole and did not overfill it.



I had the rear driveline bearings replaced hoping that would take care of the vibration / shuttering iusse but to no avail. Since then this problem has gotten worse, for some reason I've been thinking my problem could be and output bearing. Now, after reading though the tread, It looks like the rear output bearing is a softspot within the transmission.



Would any of you know what the symptoms are of a failure of the rear output bearing? Can this bear be replaced with the transmission on the truck or does it need to be removed?



Could this be a symptom of an input bear as well?



Thanks to everyone in advance for all your comments and help as it is GREATLY appreciated.



Cee

 

[HBarlow]

Cee,

Standard Transmission in Fort Worth, a TDR advertiser, would be the experts to call with any questions regarding rebuild of the NV-5600. They rebuilt my '01 several years ago. They are a very professional, honest, reliable, and fair priced operation.

I'm not clear on the symptoms you are describing. If you'll pm me I'll give you a phone number to call and we can discuss the exact conditions when you experience the "vibration" and the symptoms you are describing.

 

[AH64ID]

My truck also has a build date of Oct '04, it's a 2005 not a 2004. 5.

I didn't have any gear rollover/growling with my stock clutch, but I do have some with my SBC OFE. It's not bad, but it's there.

I have talked to a few people that were getting lots of noise from the stock NV-5600 clutch and replacing the clutch removed all of the noise, at 136K miles I would look at a new clutch.

 

[boonhauler]

My truck also has a build date of Oct '04, it's a 2005 not 2004. 5

That's what I thought... . the guys at Diesel Power Produts were trying to tell me it's a 2004. 5.....



and what does the guru Harvey B have to say... ... ... . 15,000+ posts, OMG..... :-laf

 

[boonhauler]

Cee,



Standard Transmission in Fort Worth, a TDR advertiser, would be the experts to call with any questions regarding rebuild of the NV-5600. They rebuilt my '01 several years ago. They are a very professional, honest, reliable, and fair priced operation.

Harvey, I'm going to give them a call tomorrow morning to see what they have to say... ..... I'll let you know what they say.



Thanks again Guru RAM Man... ...

 

[NIsaacs]

When you say you had the driveline bearings replaced, do you mean u-joints? If so, did you change them all? If it is a 2 piece drive shaft, make sure they are both in time with each other.



Since this vibration has been going on for about 30,000 miles, I would think the transmission is okay or it would have failed by now. You might change the oil and look for contamination. Since you bought it used with 109,000 miles it might have an aftermarket clutch already in it with the noise that sometimes accompany a heavy duty clutch. If it is original it might be in need of replacing. Noise/vibration can be hard to track down in a drive train system because the noise can travel and give a false diagnosis



Nick

 

[boonhauler]

Cee,



Standard Transmission in Fort Worth, a TDR advertiser, would be the experts to call with any questions regarding rebuild of the NV-5600. They rebuilt my '01 several years ago. They are a very professional, honest, reliable, and fair priced operation.



I'm not clear on the symptoms you are describing. If you'll pm me I'll give you a phone number to call and we can discuss the exact conditions when you experience the "vibration" and the symptoms you are describing.

Harvey:



I spoke with them today, I think it's the output bearing. I've decided to have the truck taken apart and send the transmission to them for rebuilding. They said if the bearing were to seize it can't be removed from the case and the core charge for the case is $1000. I'd much rather be safe than sorry.



They also suggested a transmission cooler as well, could anyone point me in the right direction in regards to the cooler? Maybe it's time for a new clutch as well, any comments?



Thanks again everyone... . :{

 

[boonhauler]

When you say you had the driveline bearings replaced, do you mean u-joints? If so, did you change them all? If it is a 2 piece drive shaft, make sure they are both in time with each other.



Nick

Nick, yes, all the u-joints were replaced in the rear driveshaft.

 

[HBarlow]

Cee,

IMO, it is not normal for an NV-5600 to need rebuilding at 100k+ miles (I forget exactly what mileage you reported) but if it ran low on lube or has had an owner who tried to quick shift it like a car it could be. Standard will replace only what is needed so you won't be abused on the rebuild.

When the transmission is out it would probably be a good idea to replace the clutch assembly if it shows any wear at all. The labor to replace a clutch is 80% to 90% related to removal and replacement of the 400 lb. transmission.

 

[boonhauler]

Cee,



IMO, it is not normal for an NV-5600 to need rebuilding at 100k+ miles (I forget exactly what mileage you reported) but if it ran low on lube or has had an owner who tried to quick shift it like a car it could be. Standard will replace only what is needed so you won't be abused on the rebuild.



When the transmission is out it would probably be a good idea to replace the clutch assembly if it shows any wear at all. The labor to replace a clutch is 80% to 90% related to removal and replacement of the 400 lb. transmission.

Harvey:



Once again, thanks for bringing your expertise to the table. Yes, I was thinking that doing the clutch as well and I'm thinking an aftermarket 400 hp assembly. Once I find what this current problem is the next project will be a new trubocharger, air filter assembly, and Smartry Jr.



As you're well aware my trailer is big and heavy too say the least and running the truck stock will really be pushing it and that's something I really do not want to do. I'd really like your take on those upgrades as well as a transmission cooler. I'll PM you.



BTW, I read through the MaxBrake thread and they should make you head of the Marketing Dept. Your expertise is off the charts... . great Job!!