Lower cost alternative for ~350hp clutch

[jlccc]

A good friend and I spent last Tuesday installing a new clutch in my Cummins H. O. 6-speed. Together we found a source for an organic-ferramic clutch kit. I've included pictures of both sides of the clutch disk for your viewing pleasure.

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Note that it is constructed with a LUK center hub. I also like the fact that the ORGANIC SIDE IS AGAINST THE FLYWHEEL. Since the pressure plate is always replaced during a clutch change and the flywheel is just resurfaced, I want to take as little off the flywheel as possible.



My truck is no monster, but it does crank out over 750 ft-lbs at the rear wheels. At 1900 rpms (peak torque for my rig) I could just begin to slip the OEM clutch in 5th and 6th gears. It would hook up again at about 2100 rpms when the torque began to drop off.



Because I only had 20K miles on my truck (and I'm very easy on clutches) I took a gamble and only purchased the clutch disk. I figured there was a good chance that my flywheel and stock pressure plate would show little, if any, wear/scarring/heat checking and that I could avoid resurfacing/replacing. Turns out I was right--the flywheel and pressure plate still had the factory machining marks over their entire surface and there was no heat checking. There was the tiniest, tiniest little spot on the pressure plate to indicate that it had been heated a bit.



We got everything back together without incident (let me tell you it's a more than a bit scary having a 360# transmission and 80# transfer case balanced on a conventional floor jack w/transmission adapter). I never want to do that again.



First impressions:

Very smooth engagement with only the slightest hint of chatter. And that chatter occurs very infrequently, and only during 2nd gear starts just as the vehicle begins to roll.



I drove it easy for about 100 mi (20mi of which was stop and go traffic) before I really poured the coal to it. I was not surprised to discover that it held beautifully. All of a sudden, driving is fun again. It's such a pain having to baby a clutch for fear of slipping it. So far this new clutch has completely eliminated any worries of clutch slippage for me. I suspect that as I get a few more miles on it that it will get even better. I believe it would make a fine towing clutch and a general all-around clutch upgrade for those who are slipping, or on the verge of slipping their OEM clutch.



My truck dyno'd just barely under 300hp on Edge's mustang dyno last summer. Since then I've upgraded my exhaust and turbine housing so I expect I'm making the tiniest hair over 300hp now. Based on how this clutch feels (admittedly this is very subjective) I'm confident that this clutch would easily hold 350hp. I'll never know since I don't have any intention of bombing it further. (OK, maybe I'll trade the EZ for a Comp someday, but not this year. )



Merry Christmas to all!

jlccc



Edited by Steve St. Laurent to remove references to competing vendor per forum guideline #5. 1

 

[Steve Campbell]

John.....

Is this a PM thing to find out where you purchased the "censored" disc????



Hope you have a good Christmas.

 

[BigMo]

I'' bite ...

Where did you get it? Web site? Cost? Any details? Thanks.

 

[Ncostello]

Is this alternative clutch made by LUK? I once bought a LUK kit from the local transmission shop and it did very well for my old Ford.

 

[Dkevdog]

I'd love some details too... ... ... .



Kev

 

[jlccc]

Originally posted by Ncostello

Is this alternative clutch made by LUK? I once bought a LUK kit from the local transmission shop and it did very well for my old Ford.

The cluch disk assembly is not made by LUK, but it uses an LUK hub. I have a lot of confidence in LUK equipment.

 

[jlccc]

Re: I'' bite ...

Originally posted by BigMo

Where did you get it? Web site? Cost? Any details? Thanks.

We worked directly with the clutch manufacturer to obtain this disc. They have no website, no retail sales outlet, no nothing--just what appears to be a great product. To be quite honest, riflesmith and I are seriously considering bringing them to market. For that reason I don't want to self-promote here in this forum but you can email for details.

Edited by Steve St. Laurent to remove references to competing vendor per forum guideline #5. 1

 

[rspinks]

The transmission/t-case is scary on a big transmission jack, let alone a conventional floor jack! Good job for breaking new territory.

 

[KLockliear]

Still comes back to: "Quality Service or Price, Pick any two. "

 

[jlccc]

Originally posted by KLockliear

Still comes back to: "Quality Service or Price, Pick any two. "

I don't think the three have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[WadePatton]

Kudos for trying something out! I hope it works out for you. PRICE seems to drive America--look at Walmart. (I don't shop there though, rarely does anything they stock suit my application or country of origin requirements. )



But on this, I don't like doing things as big as Clutch R&R twice. So I'm going to stick to tried and true.



On injectors it looks like I may experiment a bit and pray the tips don't break.



No flames, no pom poms, just sayin' what I mean.

 

[bbeatty]

six states clutch

Dear Sirs I think this is a good clutch up to 350 hp (torque is what counts though) This clutch is good for about 800 lbs. The trouble is this is the same clutch i bought from six states,(Which is O. K. but it hardly serves my purposes! Ibought a TST clutch which was rated at a 1000 lbs lbs of torque, I fried the thing and i dont blame TST. Im run over 500Hp. and my torque comes on at 1800 RPM. Ihave the ability (not braging) to put on cummins dynos so i do know what it puts out. Back to the Point I do have this clutch which is spoken about at this present time and it is like im on water all the time , because it wont hold my torque. BUT this is not to say this is not a good clutch because it has grade nine bolts(yay they dont make a grade nine but there is a bolt above grade eight. )And a very go od install kit. (THIS WILL WORK FOR 90 PERCENT OF CUMMINS TRUCK) just note from BBEATTY

 

[krabman]

I was hoping to see the response to the SBC post but I can see it has been deleted. Too bad wanted to see the rebuttal and find out the details that had been hinted at in regards to who made the clutch.

 

[jlccc]

Originally posted by WadePatton

Kudos for trying something out! I hope it works out for you. PRICE seems to drive America--look at Walmart. (I don't shop there though, rarely does anything they stock suit my application or country of origin requirements. )

Price does drive some people, value and brand loyalty drive others, even the desire to experiment can be a motivator. In the end, it's about choices. I made the best one for me and I'm happy with how it turned out.

 

[jwinnie]

jlccc,

Awesome work man, I too like the fact that the organic material is against the flywheel, but there could be a reason for "A certain clutch company from Indiana" to do it opposite. Though we could be getting into proprietary secrets by asking.

Do you plan on doing any more R&D on this Secret I Spy clutch? i. e. maybe bomb your truck a little to find it's limit? Keep us informed



krabman,

I agree with you, I read this thread before a certain post(s) were deleted and it was very interesting. Now we have less information to base our decisions on. According to the forum guidelines it is my responsibility to interpret what I read on the TDR. I'll take a quote from Rule #4, "The fundamental concept is that you should not rely solely upon any information or opinions you read. Rather, you should use what you read as a starting point for doing independent research on products and maintenance techniques. " Enough said. JMO



[Disclaimer] Not affiliated with any vendor



John

 

[jlccc]

Originally posted by jwinnie

jlccc,

Awesome work man, I too like the fact that the organic material is against the flywheel, but there could be a reason for "A certain clutch company from Indiana" to do it opposite. Though we could be getting into proprietary secrets by asking.

Do you plan on doing any more R&D on this Secret I Spy clutch? i. e. maybe bomb your truck a little to find it's limit? Keep us informed

I suppose that if one side of the disk happened to generate more heat than the other during slippage, that the flywheel (weighing twice what the pressure plate assembly weighs) might absorb a larger quantity of heat before heat checking occurs. I personally would rather protect my flywheel by putting the organic side against it.



As for your second question, I'm trying to find a good price on an Edge Comp at this very moment.

 

[rubberneck]

Protect the flywheel from what??? If the clutch job is going to be done correctly, you need to surface the flywheel anyway. I just pulled a flywheel out of a truck using the southbend FE disc, the full feramic disc. It had over 50 thousand miles of drag racing and flat out abuse and will clean up with just the slightest grinding necessary. You could have it surfaced plenty of times before it would become significant. There is a reason southbend puts the feramic to the flywheel and it is not proprietary, I have talked to peter about it and he gladly shares the information. Part of it is as stated earlier in that the flywheel has a greater mass and therefore greater heat dissipating capablity. The other is that they found out it gives a slightly smoother engagement than vise versa.



As stated earlier PRICE QUALITY OR SERVICE pick two. I have used several southbend clutches and they all work as advertised and you can not get beter service than Peter gives.

 

[jwinnie]

I want to make clear the fact that in no way was my post intended to flame SBC.



I'm having problems with my new clutch so I called Peter, we talked for a few and at the end of the conversation he said; "we'll make it right. " And I'm confident he will.



I'll gladly pay extra $$ for good service any day.



The intent of my thread was to praise jlccc for going out, doing the legwork, being nice enough to share his findings AND to let the moderators know that (IMO) they went a little overboard in editing this thread.



John

 

[Animal]

Here it is sports fans!

Come and get it.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875375473

 

[mgoncalves]

$700

That still seems too high for a clutch disc and pressure plate. There has got to be a more realistically priced clutch out there. I applaud the effort for someone trying to find one rather than complain about it. I tend to just complain about it until I buy one, then complain more.