Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting M1A Socom

[Flying_gage]

Hey all,



Went to local gun shop this morning to see if I could get any . 223 ammo. No luck. The store is sold out of anything that might resemble something along the lines of an "assault rifle".



Chatting with the owner, asked him what kind of wait I would have for a Socom. He laughed and said at least a year. Then it appeared as though a light bulb flashed in his head. He went into back room and came back with the info that he is getting a socom next week... . Timing is horrible, yet I put cash down on it with intent to purchase.



Anyone have one here? Impressions? Thoughts? Upgrades that are worthwhile?



It is not the Socom II. No farkles on it, just plane and simple.

 

[goodguys75]

im sure they are good rifles, but a little expensive for what they are... . or just over priced

 

[BGlidewell]

Excellent rifles. I love mine. The best add-on is shooting it often.

 

[HHhuntitall]

You'll love it, if you like to shoot. Maybe a bit heavy, with the big mags and a Trijicon sight, but overall, dang good for clearing a room and even reaching out to touch one that climbed out the window and ran down the street.....

 

[Flying_gage]

You'll love it, if you like to shoot. Maybe a bit heavy, with the big mags and a Trijicon sight, but overall, dang good for clearing a room and even reaching out to touch one that climbed out the window and ran down the street.....

That is funny there... . I do like to shoot. I shot over a 100 rounds this summer playing with my 30/06 in one sitting? With no silly pads or stuff like that... I also have my own 100 yd range that I use regularly. I have a nice collection just not an M1 variant.

HHhuntitall, you reload? Have you found a bullet they like to eat? Do they chew the brass up as bad as some have mentioned?

Even though it is my dream rifle, it comes at the worst time of the year! But you throw in recent events and I am concerned this may be my last chance at a reasonable price for awhile.

I like what I am hearing though!

 

[HHhuntitall]

That is funny there... . I do like to shoot. I shot over a 100 rounds this summer playing with my 30/06 in one sitting? With no silly pads or stuff like that... I also have my own 100 yd range that I use regularly. I have a nice collection just not an M1 variant.



HHhuntitall, you reload? Have you found a bullet they like to eat? Do they chew the brass up as bad as some have mentioned?



Even though it is my dream rifle, it comes at the worst time of the year! But you throw in recent events and I am concerned this may be my last chance at a reasonable price for awhile.



I like what I am hearing though!

:-laf Not sure what you gave for it, but in a few months, you may even make money on it... .



I reload a little. I've had several M1A's, and they all vary, just like any rifles..... I've reloaded for all of them. Typically, they like the 150-180 range of bullets. That area of pressure curve is what they are designed for. With all the excellent powders available for the . 308 today, it's a very good all'round rifle. I prefer the heavier bullets for range and knockdown energy. I've had two that really liked the 180gr Berger's, but they didn't feed very well due to the OAL. Typically, the 168gr Sierra Matchking tends to be the best all around bullet I've used in these rifles. The current Army match loading is eihter the 175gr Sierra Match Kings, formerly named the M118LR, currently switching to the MK316 designation. It's loaded with 42gr IMR4064, Federal Gold Medal Match 210 primers, using the 175gr... . it's a pretty hot round in a small chambered rifle... . Works pretty good with a mil-spec chamber with lots of lead in the throat area... . You'll also see a lot of training/match ammo being used for Match/Sniper rounds, using the 168gr SMK, named the M852, which, IIRC is 44gr Varget with the Federal 210GMMatch... .



I have also used the Berger 210 Hybrids in single shot configuration for match use, with some luck. The barrel twist needs to be 1:10 for that, and sometimes a modified piston valve has to be used to modify the pressure curve... . High pressue loads can be pretty abusive to your bolt and locking lugs... .



As for eating up the brass, that's all about the tuning. For example, sometimes, the locking lugs have sharp corners that need to be "softened" by a good polishing stone or Dremel tool... . Rounding the corners helps keep the brass from getting sharp scratches, as well as the bullet jackets. I've had more than one that would give a "flyer" on rounds picked up from a certain side of the magazine. I've traced it back to severe scratches on the bullet jackets... . I guess I should refer to them as gouges, as they must be deep enough to effect the bullet's integrity, hurting it's cocentricity in flight... . Rounding the sharp corners reduces this, and doesn't hurt the reciever's integrity. Obviously, you don't want to get carried away... . Still, hot brass is very soft, and if you use optics over the ejection port, the brass is easily dented by hitting the scope, reciever, or anything else hard. Modifying the ejector can help on ejection angle and velocity. Modifications to the gas system can help slow the bolt velocity, effecting ejection speed, therefore ejection force on the brass, as well. And an overly large chamber, as is common on most semi-auto battle rifles, will stretch the brass to it's structural limits. This aids in extraction, but hurts the longetivity of the brass. I've found cutting a semi-match chamber helps the brass' longetivity greatly. It sometimes can cause extraction failures in prolonged periods of fire, but it's a compromise of accuracy vs. reliability... .



All in all, I'd have to say the SOCOM is a good all around rifle. You get the accuracy and range of a good caliber, suitable for most needs, yet the handling characteristics and adapatability of a smaller carbine, combined with a fairly large magazine capacity and excellent reliability. While not exactly simple, they are extremely reliable, and easily serviced... .



And mentioning the magazine capacity brings me to another tuning point... . sometimes, large capacity mags can exert a great deal of pressure on the rounds inserted in the top of the magazine. This pressure has to be overcome to chamber the round, which can result in reliability issues and brass injury. To keep from damaging the brass, you slow the bolt down some... . but there may not be enough inertial energy to extract the next round from the mag... . Sometimes, you load only 15 in a 20rnd mag to keep upward pressure minimal... . Compromise of accuracy vs. reliability... .

 

[Flying_gage]

Thank you for sharing expensive and hard won knowledge. Been looking at them for a long time. Between Christmas and a expensive family trip in the next month, I am struggling. Actually wife is on the other side of fence and telling me to do it. Times are getting strange, I know.

Seeing as you have one and don't mind sharing I have a couple more questions for you. First I will give you my thoughts for now and the possible future.

Live on about 3 1/2 acres surrounded by thousands of acres of tillable ground. Chickens are the main thing we have here now with nice sized garden. Looking to expand a little in the livestock area in coming years. The role I am looking for this to fill perfectly, is a all around ranch gun. I know already it will be good for that.

Here is the future. I am by no means an extremist or hoarder survival stuff, (hint, I have it above). Yet I am scared for the future. I follow the markets very closely and the politics. Things are askew greatly. Things that were fundamentals even 30 yrs ago are gone. Combine that with these continued "glitches" wall street has that no one can figure out,and in my view there is a chance we could see some bad times ahead. Then we are talking about an entirely different scenario. One where I not only be shooting <100 yds, but out to >500 yds for food, should it come to that?

I can shoot, and well. But I need to know if I can stretch that 16" barrel that far. A sad amount of the buyers of these guns seem to shoot pop cans at 25 yds or are shooting trees, (by viewing their videos). I have found only one person writing that they are good that far out. So what are your thoughts with premise for this purchase out there.

Once again, thank you for sharing!

 

[sarj]

The socom was my first rifle w/ a mag. I saw one on the rack at a small shop I visit for hand guns, went home to do some reading, and the next morning went down to buy it. Gone. I waited another two months on order, and it's still one of my favorites. They told me it might take six to eight, but it was only a few. Things may have changed on that account. That was four or five years ago I think. I've only used the iron sights on it, and it's a very comfortable rifle to shoot with. The nephew talked about hooking me up with a surplus Trijicon, so I might try that, but the iron sights are very reliable. I practice at 200 yards with it. Relying on it at 500 might be a stretch. I've seen the II with the rails, and I like the original better myself. I wouldn't hesitate on adding one to the safe again.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I don't own a SOCOM anymore, as the short barrel was a drawback to me. If I were to enter into a previous line of work, I'd have another one. Or a short AR10. The short barrel hurts your velocity, but it will make 500 pretty easy with 168s or 175s, IF it's accurate enough. 1" groups at 100 yards are 5" groups at 500yds... . Not too bad for game hunting. But 3" groups at 100 are 15" groups at 500yds, and that won't do. I've never seen one that inaccurate, but I've seen some that won't do much better than 1. 5" at 100. Even with handloads. That's the luck of the draw. It's all in the assembly, and if they assemble it right, with good parts, it should shoot very well. Velocity is hurt, but at 500 yards, it is still easily supersonic and has a lot of energy. Typically, these have shot well, but I don't want to be called a liar... . I think you'll love it. If you get too strapped for cash and can't afford it, PM me. I may be interested.....

 

[GHarman]

You can bed the stock and squeeze out that extra 1/2" if all the components are top notch!

Accurizing the M-14/M1-A is a little time consuming but could be worth it.

If ya have a "plastic stock" make sure the bedding compound/epoxy is compatible with the plastic.

I believe DEVCON will stick to almost anything, but is hard to work with.

If yours is a keeper? Mount optics on it. A 1 1/2" group at 100 yards with iron sights could become less than 1" with a scope.

The better you can see, the better you can shoot!

Add a proper bedding job and you could potentially squeeze out 1/2'-3/4" groups at 100 yards! More than adequate for that 500 yard stretch!

If you could average 1" groups, it would be a perfect fit!

GregH

 

[Flying_gage]

Sarj this all started because I asked how long it would take. At present he said a year plus on getting one. He has not had a socom in forever.

Damn I love TDR! Gharman and HHhuntitall you guys are being a big help here!

It sounds like it is all in the assembly, from all the sources I have pulled from. Some come out of the Armory 1" and some are 3-4". I have no problem tweaking it. I think in general most rifles in general need a little tweaking to get them headed in the right direction. Just bought beautiful M77 that would hold no better than 3" groups at 100 for a very good price. Little sand paper and more importantly finding the correct torque specs and she is shooting 1/2" now easy.

GH, I found a post that talked about doing exactly as you describe. Sounded as though it was a no brainer for socom as there is too much flex in the plastic stock.

Should be in on Thursday from the distributor... .

 

[GHarman]

Flying_gage,
If it has that plastic stock and you can swing it? Get a McMillian and bed it right! There are also laminated wood stocks out there. Another idea, if I may. See if you can order everything except the stock.
That is money saved for a good stock.
Check out this link! That M-3A is really interesting!
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-stocks-tactical-stock-list.php#m1a
&
http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-624/McMillan-M3A-Adjustable-M1A/Detail
Talk to HHhuntitall if you decide on this route.
Other options;
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/61...precision-rifle-stock-m14-m1a-synthetic-black

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...tocks/m14-m1a-socom-emod-stock-prod42372.aspx

http://www.jallenenterprises.com/jae100g3_overview.htm

IMHO, the Sage International is the way to go. Still pricey!
http://clydearmory.com/accessories/stocks/sage-international-m14-m1a.html

Hope this helps your dream rifle application.
GregH

 

[The patriot]

I dont have a SOCOM, but I built something similar:

 

[Flying_gage]

Patriot that will be the route I take if this does not work at this time. I like what you did! How does it shoot? How does it feel? In some respects I like that way more as you end up with more of yourself in the build... As I will not sell any of my weapons ever, this route appeals to me as the kids would see my thoughts in a build like this. Should the "new" route not work out, I will be contacting you to get your thoughts on the build.

GH, you are killing me brother!!! I really want that J. Allen system! That would be my first choice! More than likely I will, (and am looking now) get a wood stock and bed it properly. Right now I am just trying to figure out how to do it and still feel as though I am being responsible

 

[Flying_gage]

GH Where in Colorado? I was born and reared in Evergreen; when it was a small town and there wasn't anything real fancy to it.

 

[Flying_gage]

HH, I don't mind sharing what I will pay for it. Kind of a testament to the shop I use as he doesn't gouge. I will be paying $1800 out the door. He charges list price + tax.
This is a current auction on Gunbroker for a used one, (same exact gun minus the extra mags):

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323445992

Guess the decision is made... .

 

[GHarman]

I would recommend checking out Galleryofguns.com, but under the current political climate, they are plumb out. Under normal circumstances, they can save you 25% off retail or better.

They do a pre-negotiated price with local FFL dealers. But the retail you listed sounds like ball park!

GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

Flying_gage,

If it has that plastic stock and you can swing it? Get a McMillian and bed it right! There are also laminated wood stocks out there. Another idea, if I may. See if you can order everything except the stock.

That is money saved for a good stock.

Check out this link! That M-3A is really interesting!

http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-stocks-tactical-stock-list.php#m1a

&

http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-624/McMillan-M3A-Adjustable-M1A/Detail

Talk to HHhuntitall if you decide on this route.

Other options;

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/61...precision-rifle-stock-m14-m1a-synthetic-black



http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...tocks/m14-m1a-socom-emod-stock-prod42372.aspx



http://www.jallenenterprises.com/jae100g3_overview.htm



IMHO, the Sage International is the way to go. Still pricey!

http://clydearmory.com/accessories/stocks/sage-international-m14-m1a.html



Hope this helps your dream rifle application.

GregH

GHarm, I've use the Sage MBR chassis system. I think the Troy Modular system (http://www.rifleoutfit.com/troy-modular-chassis-system-dmr-cqb-package-for-m14-m4.html) has a little more potential for optics. The biggest problem I've found is that they are extremely temp sensitive... . You certainly wouldn't think so, but they are. POI will move 1/4" MOA easily from 90* to 30*. Also, weight on the forward extremities of the Troy system will affect POI, such as add on nightvision. I've had mortal hell with mine. I'm so PO'ed that I'm selling my Troy and going back to the McMillan stock. Groups are almost as good, but weather doesn't affect it. And it cuts the weight around 40%!! Hard to beat that McMillan..... Mine's bedded on the sides and lower section of the reciever to give it the full contact and tension it requires to be accurate... . An old Gunny showed me what I needed to do, and he was right... . Hard to beat experience for a teacher!! Anyway, the Troy and Sage are wayyy to heavy for any benefit they provide, IMO, even without considering the cost.



The VLTOR stocks I hear good things about. I played with one at SHOT show and up at Tulsa, but never bit the bullet. They're a bit cheaper than the others... The same applies to the Allen Enterprises, offering. The fit and finish looks better than the VLTOR, though... . The Archangel synthetic stocks look pretty good, but they've got a little flex to it... I'm not sure they're that good. They fit the shooter good, though. I played with one a local LEO had on the range, and my impressions were they were a bit cheap made... . But the price reflects that a little... . JMO. May not be bad for the money... .

HH, I don't mind sharing what I will pay for it. Kind of a testament to the shop I use as he doesn't gouge. I will be paying $1800 out the door. He charges list price + tax.

This is a current auction on Gunbroker for a used one, (same exact gun minus the extra mags):



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323445992



Guess the decision is made... .

Well, the guy can't be gouging that bad, I guess. I paid $1650 for mine with a riser and some mags, but that was several years ago when they came out... . 2005 I think? The price had come up, I know..... I priced one at Cabela's for my Dad last year, and that was $1780 I think... I still need to get him an AR platform 7mm-08... . I had another SOCOM bought until last week, with an AIMPOINT sight and several mags... . The guy backed out at the last minute. If I had followed through a little quicker, I probably would have it, but I've been busy. I was a little ticked, but he pacified me with a good package deal on a Remington Model 8, a Mossberg Persuader, and a Savage Scout with scope... . I think the old Remington is going to be a good shooter. I played with it off the porch a little, and knocked a Starling off a post at around 80 yds... Took me two shots, though... . Gotta get some more ammo loaded for it and play with different ammo... . Should be fun for plinking around the house, and should take care of any varmints hanging around.

 

[The patriot]

It shoots real good (sub MOA) out to 200 yds. I havent tried it further. Points real nice, sort of like a good shotgun.
I got the barrel as a demil that gauges 0 on both ends (for almost nothing), sent it out th be cut, crowned and threaded by Evolution gun works.
Receiver is a Armscorp.
I have plenty of m14 parts sitting around, so it was almost free other than the receiver.

 

[GHarman]

Flying_gage,
North of Blackhawk! I drive through Evergreen to go to the Rifle Range, near Bailey!
GregH