Mag-hytek Differential cover on 2500 Auto Dana 70

[Nelson Buck]

While I am no "bomber" one of the things I am thinking of doing is installing one of these covers. I am some what of a maintenance freak AND I always was a little concerned on my '96 2500 that the rear wheel hubs were very warm to the touch after a few miles running. I never experienced any difficulty with seals etc. but I still worried.

I have the understanding that this cover as supplied, has the dipstick calibrated so as to have the oil a little higher in the tubes than a stock configuration. This appears to me to provide for a little more cooling. any comments?

Also, I have noted several comments about interference fit between the cover and the Camper Opt. sway bar. Does this apply to the Dana 70 configuration we Auto tran folks have.

Rob, I am gong to cross post this in both the product and 24v forums forgive me if this is error. #ad




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2001 SLT Auto,White,camper/towing options Line-x over-rail liner, Oem black molded running boards, Powervision mirrors, Black Bug deflector (with eyebrows) Oem CD radio, Dash Carpet, Black louvered tailgate, 5th wheel Hitch. Road ranger 27 ft. trailer, WONDERFUL WIFE of 43 years, (she didn't fuss over the exchange of the '96 for the '01) and two poodles for the back seat. Guages and "real" sheepskin (charcoal) seatcovers coming real soon. No bombing planned, --well maybe -- 275 hp injectors someday.

Yes, Rob I will edit this signature in a few days but, I just had to do it.

 

[Nelson Buck]

Members,

I received an e-mail from Mag-Hytec in response to my question. I have permission to share it with you.

Hello Nelson Buck;
I seen your post on the TDR sit and I think I can help. The
Mag-Hytec Dana 70 cover does not have a problem with the stock sway bar
in the dodge trucks. The 2500 stick ( 5 & 6 speed) 94 and up both auto
and stick in the 3500 4X2 trucks only with a stock sway bar need a
spacer. The 4X4 trucks do not have a problem.
The factory oil level is about 1/4 to 1/2 in. below the bottom of
the axle tube our low mark on the dipstick is the bottom of the axle
tube the high mark is the bottom of the axle this is to make sure the
bearings and seals our running in oil all the time bearings that run in
oil run cool and clean them self's and seals that run in oil last a lot
longer. Our covers run about 45 deg. cooler then the stock cover and if
you use a good oil like Lubrication Engineers "LE" 607 drop the temp as
much as 30 deg more. We think this is the best oil for the rear end gear
box on any truck that pulls a trailer. We do sell direct we pay the
shipping (UPS) if you order the rear cover and trany pan at the same
time we take $25. 00 off the 2nd item. We also sell LE oil and Amsoil.
check out our web sit (www.mag-hytec.com)
Hope this helps;
Roy Rothlisberger @ Mag-Hytec

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

Hi Nelson
I've had mine on for about 9 months and am very happy with this unit. It does read a little high but I've had no problems - fluid temp. has never gone above 150 even on 100+ days. I use Amsoil Series 2000 75W90 plus 2 bottles of trac loc additive. Good luck
Happy trails

1993 Electric Blue and Gray. Banks turbo & 3. 5 exhaust, K & N air filter and tweaked
pump (27lbs boost unloaded).

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[Oil Man]

Bob, I noticed that you use Amsoil 2000 75w90 in your rear end. I just sent out 4 quarts of Amsoil 75w90 to an ISO 9001 certified ASTM lab for testing against Lubrication Engineers #607 SAE 90. The test was the SRV wear and the SRV EP. In the SRV wear the wear is measured in length and width. The results were as follows;

Amsoil;
Length of scar 0. 59
Width of scar 0. 65

Lubrication Engineers
Length of scar 0. 20
Width of scar 0. 06

LE had 3 times less wear scar in length, and 11 times less scar in width. This relates to 33 times less wear than Amsoil, and LE 607 is not synthetic.

The end result is that if you are towing or are hard on your truck LE gives you the protection that you want and deserve to protect your truck.

The SRV wear test paramiters were standard;
ASTM D 5707
Test temperature 50 Deg c
Break in load 50 N
Test Load 200 N
Frequency 50 Hz
Stroke 1. 00
Specimen Ball on disk

Next the SRV EP test was performed;

The results were recorded as the Maximum load without seizure, in Newtons;

Amsoil took 300 Newtons without seizure

LE took 1100 Newtons without seizure

This means that LE oil will withstand almost 4 times the load than the Amsoil 2000 75w-90

So many times I have seen posts saying that they want the best for their truck, now you what it is.

Sincerely, Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[John]

Oil Man, I would like to see how the LE-607 stacks up against other synthetic gear oils, namely, Red Line, Royal Purple, and NEO. I've heard numerous success stories about would be tradgedies, averted due to the use of Red Line synthetic gear oils in many different forms of racing. John (skeptical in Enumclaw)

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'98. 5 2500 QC 4x4, (Black) SLT Sport, ISB, LWB, 3. 54 LSD, A/T, Glasstite Vision II canopy, Line-X bed liner, 285/75R16 BFG A/Ts on 16x8 M/T Challengers, Warn 4X Boards, Mopar fender flares, front and rear NW Custom stainless steel/rubber mud flaps, Mag-Hytec diff. cover and trans. pan, Edelbrock IAS shocks, Mopar tow hooks, Jordan Research Ultima 2020 trailer brake controller, VDO Vision gauges, PIAA Dual Sport 900 auxiliary lights and Super White bulbs, BD exhaust brake and TorqLoc, Prime-Loc fuel filter relocation kit, "Scotty Air System", Hitco/Geno's exhaust blanket, Femco/Geno's EZ Drain oil pan plug, Banks Stinger 4" dia. stainless steel exhaust system, plus many other trick modifications

'00 Polaris 6x6

 

[Oil Man]

Skeptical John, As you know I e-mailed the info to you that you have requested. After some thought I have decided to publish this info for all the TDR to see. Sorry for the length of the letter.

You mentioned that you would like to know how LE 607 stacks up against other synthetics like Royal Purple, Red Line, or NEO.
The testing that we just did with Amsoil and LE cost more than $11,000. The testing was done for Mag-Hytec because he sells Amsoil and LE and wanted to know the truth about which one was better so he can recommend the best with his covers.
We have tested some of the Royal Purple products in the past. I can find two that we have tested, the Synergy 90 from Royal Purple and Synfilm 132 Air compressor oil. The AC oil is a 100% synthetic fluid which utilizes a blend of ester and PAO as its base stock. It uses barium sulfonate probably as a rust inhibitor and Moly as a soluble antiwear/antioxident additive. When testing was done we had tested LE 9032 synthetic air compressor oil against Royle Purple synthetic oil on the 4-ball test LE had approximately 25% less wear at the 20 kilogram load and 35% less wear at the 40 kilogram load than the Royal Purple product.

The Oxidation resistance of three oils was evaluated via the rotary bomb oxidaton test (RBOT). Oxidation lifetimes for the three oils tested were as follows;
LE 9032 synthetic 715 min.
LE 6401 petroleum 510 min.
Royal Purple synthetic 379 min.

When we tested the demulsibility characteristics of the RP AC oil we saw very poor results. They had 38 milliliters of emulsion remaining after 30 minutes. The RP oil has a pronounced tendency to mix with water. The pour points were about the same between the LE syn and RP syn. The LE petro oil did not have as low of a pour point.

Royal Purple synergy 90 was tested against the LE petro product on a 4-ball test. The results were as follows;

Maximum bulk oil temperature generated was;

LE 607 59 deg. c (138 deg F)
Royal Purple 131 deg c (268 deg F)

The average wear scar diameter for the two ols were;

LE 607 0. 64mm
Royal Purple 2. 44mm

These were heads up tests on ASTM calabrated test machines at an ISO 9001 test lab.

I will post more info later Sincerely Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[Oil Man]

John, I don't think we have any testing against NEO oil. As far as I know they are not a very big player in the commercial indursry or heavy duty trucking industry.

 

[Oil Man]

John, I have found some info on testing with Redline. First three oils were sampled and analyzed. All oils were Red Line, 10w30, 10w40,and 20w50. The tests run were the Falex pin and Vee Wear Test and the Thin Film Oxidation Update Test (TFOUT). These tests are good comparative tools to evaluate different motor oils. The infrared Analysis confirms that the Redline oils are all ester-based products. The base numbers are all above nine and the viscosity's are normal for the viscosity ranges claimed for each product. Elemental Analysis on the three oil samples showed the same chemistry in each of the samples. This is a predominately calcium based detergent package with a heavy dose of Moly. Two things arise from these elements. First, a high calcium along with the high levels of magnesium, phosphorus and zinc suggests that these oils are a rather high ash type engine oil, which may be prone to deposit formation. The presence of Moly indicates the presence of a moly disulfide type compound used for friction modification and wear prevention. Moly has a history of problems in engine oils that may be also present in these oils based on the presence of moly. In the past, Moly compounds have had difficulty with thermal stability and becoming corrosive above 750 deg F. I think you"ll agree that engine temperatures in the ring belt area may exceed the thermal stability limits for moly compounds.

In the Falex Pin and Vee Wear Test, both the 10w30 and 20w50 oils showed five teeth of wear. The 10w40 product showed four teeth of wear LE 8800 15w40 oil showed similar wear on the same test. This shows that there is very little difference between the LE and the Redline engine oils for wear purposes.

The TFOUT test however, the Redline product failed miserably, This failure is related to the type of base stock used in these products. As we stated earlier, this is a polyolester product, which has difficulty handling water and moisture, In the TFOUT tests, these products did not show a pressure drop on the Rotary Bomb used to conduct the test. After sixteen hours, the bomb was disassembled and there wes a very heavily oxidized residue remaining in the test jar.

Experience with this test tells us that products formulated with esters have a chemical reaction occurring during the test which consumes oxygen as expected, but the chemical reaction also produces water vapor and other gases at approximately the same rate as the oxpgen is consumed. The result is a nil pressure drop. However, the water vapor and hear in the test severely degrade and oxidize the ester causing a total failure of the oil. This is a detrimental feature of these oils in that in an engine under short run conditions where the engine may not heat up completely. there is a great deal of moisture produced. This moisture will effect the ester base and cause rapid significant oxidation of the oil.

Overall, we feel that the Redline products, while exhibiting good wear protection in the Falex Test, are not well balanced products and would have difficulties performing in long drain service due to their susceptibility to oxidation and degradation. The high calcium chemistry does not give the total base number longevity that is seen in the predominantly magnesium chemistry of the LE 8800 and the Moly may also be a source of potential corrosion and thermal instability in these Redline engine oils.

Sorry the posting was so long but I'm writing it off the Lab analysis results.

PS. An article written in the SAE magazine a few years back said that the use of Moly in concentrations above 200 ppm caused excess wear on the NTC 400test by Cummins. The article was called Reduced Durability due to a Friction Modifier in Heavy Duty Diesel Lubricants. by R. D. Hercamp of Cummins Engine co. Inc.

Sincerely, Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[Oil Man]

John, You said that other oils have solved problems in racing. I can see that also because there are different qualities out there. One will be better at reducing wear than another, thus solving the proplem. However LE is no regular oil. There are rear end MFG out there that recommend LE and for Top fuel and Alcohol dragsters and funny cars. Even some of the ones that are sponsored by another oil company. This is a fact one oil company comes to me to buy LE oil for a car that he sponsors. I have worked with Top alchol dragsters and solved problems that Royal Purple could not solve, not even if they used a SAE 70 vs LE SAE 50

John also keep in mind that just because an oil works better in a racing application it does not mean that it has what it takes for a diesel that goes many more miles than a race car and incounters other things like Oxidation resistance or TBN stability etc.

I hope this answers all of your questions
Sincerely, Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[John]

Thank you very much Kevin (Oil Man) for your e-mail responses as well as your postings here on this BB. They were very interesting and enlightening.

As I have been an avid believer/purchaser of Red Line synthetics for many years, I have heard of the polyol ester (base stock) -vs- water debate before.

After surfing the Lubrication Engineers site, I have several questions for you that others might be interested in as well: 1) Why LE 607 (SAE 90 mineral based gear oil)? 2) Why not LE 703 (80W-90 mineral based gear oil)? 3) or better yet (?) LE 9921 (75W-90 synthetic based gear oil)? and 4) Do any or all of the aforementioned gear oils require friction modifier for the LSDs? If so, which brand is the prefered brand of friction modifier? Which would be the best gear oil for our Rams (front as well as rear differentials)? And why?

Sorry Kevin... you asked for it, you supplied me with more answers, I in turn have more questions (just like the pesky little neighbor kid on the movie, Home Alone). LOL OBTW, for the record, I enjoy your long posts and e-mails, they are very informative. I really appreciate the time and effort you have taken. John (not so skeptical in Enumclaw anymore).

 

[Oil Man]

Why LE 607 SAE 90 and not LE 703 SAE 80w90 you ask. The SRV wear test shows that the LE SAE 90 #607 has less wear than the 80w90
#703 LE SAE 90.
SRV wear test results;
LE 607 SAE 90
Length of scar 0. 20
Width of scar 0. 06
LE 703 SAE 80w90
Length of scar 0. 35
Width of scar 0. 35

The SRV EP test results;
Maximum Load without seizure in Newtons;
LE 703 SAE 80w90 = 900 Newtons
LE 607 SAE 90 = 1100 Newtons

As you can see the reason that I believe the 607 is the better oil is that it will reduce wear better than the #703

The # 9921 Synolec 75w90 was manufactured to meet the Eaton and Rockwell axles requirement for extended warranty service. The problem with that is that everyone has to make the same oil to meet that requirement. They don't let anyone make a better oil (less wear) They are only interested in long oil drain.

I'm supprised you didn't ask about the 75w140 that LE has. This is the oil that I would recomend for extreme cold temps down to around -50 deg F

None of the LE oils come with a Friction modifier. I would recommend the dealers product for this application.

To be quite honest with you if you baby your truck a lot of oils will do. But if you are hard on your truck or pull a trailer then I would recommend LE 607 because of its ability to reduce wear and heat.

If you are in cold temps then you might want to go to an synthetic because of the cold temp rating like LE 9920. The recommendation for cold temp with LE 607 is -11 deg F. and with the LE 9920 its -49 deg F.

I know I know my ansewers to your questions means that you will have more questions about my answers.

Sincerely, Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[Nelson Buck]

I am sure glad that I started this topic, even though it has drifted somewhat.

The oil discussion is very interesting but a little confusing because of information in my 2001 owners manual.

According to it (P. 210) my Dana 70 came with SAE 90 type GL-5. Furthur, at P. 159 it is suggested that if I plan to pull a trailer I will "reduce the potential for rear axle overheating by replacing the gear lube with an 75W-140 synthetic ... "

Assuming, I want the best of all worlds which oil would be best for me since I do plan to tow a trailer and much of that will be in hot weather? (It can easily be 110 - 115 here in the North Central Valley of California which is when I want to hook up the fiver and escape either to the mountains or over them to the coast. ) Would this be the LE 75W-140 as opposed to The LE 607 SAE 90?

I have developed another question after re-reading the owners manual that I hesitate to post because I don't want to ofend anyone who has sought to help. OTOH I passed the recieved info on -- in this topic, so I will do so in the spirit that there is a misunderstanding by me which can be best resolved by our collective knowledge --myself having none or at least I won't have contributed to harm.

One of the reasons I passed on the info was that I was very surprised that that the stock level in the tube was below the bottom of the tube. The owners manual is very specific that the level in the the Dana rear axles should be established at 3/4 plus or minus 1/4 inch BELOW the fill hole. (p. 210) now I am wondering is it bad to have oil in the tubes -- above the bottom of the tube and below the axle, at all times?

Is it possible that I could harm my bearings and seals by going to the MAG-HYTEC and following their suggestion (which makes sense to me as a layman) by maintaining the oil at the elevated level indicated by the dipstick.

I guess what causes me to ask is --- if it is better for the oil to be higher why wouldn't Dodge/Dana just instruct us owners to establish the level of the oil to a point closer to the bottom of the fill hole in the stock configuration?

Can anybody help me/us out?

 

[C Schomer]

Oilman,
Would you explain what the w means in multi vis. oils. I heard that the # before the w is the viscosity at 0 degrees and the # after the w is the viscosity at 210 degrees. So 75w90 is 75 vis. at 0 and 90 vis. at 210 degrees. Also a straight 90 would be 90 vis. at 210 and thick like peanut butter at 0 degrees. Is that how they are tested?
Thank You, Your proffesional input is highly valued!

[This message has been edited by C Schomer (edited 02-09-2000). ]

 

[cdram]

The correct weight of oil to use in the rear end was discussed in some length awhile back. If I recall there is also a TSB on the change to a lighter weight oil for the differentials. Believe it said to use 75w-90 synthetic instead of the 75w-140. Can't remeber the TSB number 03 something.

What the discussion boiled down to was that a heavier weight oil would cause more heat, and that you should use only the heaviest weight to do the job (towing in that case) which was 75w-90.

 

[C Schomer]

FYI - A Tech Service man at Dana told me that Amsoil series 2000 75w90 was the best stuff they ever tested - as good or better than anyone elses 75w140, synthetic or otherwise. Then he went on to name about 6 big names that they compared, but I don't think LE lube was one of them. So, to put things into perspective, the LE607 should be a LOT better than the others' 75w140's. WOWZERS!!

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97 3/4Ton, 2WD, 5SP, Banks, TST, AF942M Air filter, Gutted Cat, 4"From Turbo, Shortened Frame, Custom Bed, HEY FORDBOY POWERSTROKE THIS!

 

[Oil Man]

Nelson, I can answer some of your questions. First the statement you made from the book, that by using a synthetic 75w140 instead of a petro 90 you could reduce the potential for rear axle overheating. This is true if you are using a REGULAR quality petro 90 oil, and that is what they put in it from the factory. The factory has to assume that you are not going to know what oils are better than others, and that you would use a regular quality oil. This means that the 75w140 synthetic would be better than most petro oils.

The qualities of the petro SAE90 from LE and the syn. SAE 75w140 are both very high. The main differance is that the 75w140 will go down to aprox. -50 and the SAE 90 will not go down that far (about -20 at the very max).
This means that to answer your queston of which oil is the best of all worlds. I would have to say it depends on your world. If you go to temps below -20 max and dont warm up the truck then I would have to say the 75w140. Keep in mind that the 75w140 costs a hole bunch more.

I have talked to Roy at Mag-Hytec and we agree that the higher level in the rear end is better. The axle bearings only get oiled if you turn or are on an angle if you fill the rear end to the factory level. If you fill it higher with the stock cover then you might have slight foaming because of less air space to dissapate. With the Mag_hytec you have more air space for dissapation, and can run the level higher than stock without any problems in fact the bearings will be lubricated better.
Sincerely, Kevin

 

[Oil Man]

C Schomer, To answer one of your questions will be easy. The W in 75w-90 means Winter, or is sometimes called winterborn, or weatherized. but Winter is the acual meaning. The next question is a little bit harder to explain and probably harder to grasp. No the 75 in the 75w-90 is not the SAE of the product at 0 deg F and the 90 is not the Viscosity at the higher temp. If we take a 75w140 and analise it then you would say that it has the ability to lubricate as a 140 at 100 deg c. You can also say the 75w140 has low temperature capabilities. The 75 comes from a brookfield vis test at -40 deg c and is 150,000 Cp. once this is astablished then you can say that it is a 75w oil. If you look at a 75w90 the 75 part is the same, but it will lubricate as a 90 at 100 deg c.

And your last question, No a SAE 90 is not as thick as you think at 0 deg F but it is pretty thick. The multi grade products will not be as thick. Hence the reason for the recommendation of a multi grade for cold temps.

Sincerely, Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I'm pulling this to the top since it was referenced in a 12V thread today.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Ref. in a 24 valve thread today.

 

[amsoilman]

C Schomer,
The 75W-90 gear lube question with regards to the viscosity at low and high temperatures and what the W means is simply this.

The "W" means "Winter Grade". The 75 number and the 40 number is the viscosity (resistance to flow)at a predetermined Temperature. There are different Viscosity grading systems and are reported differently using different numbers.

For example, There is the "Kinematic Viscosity", which is actual viscosity that you can see. Kinematic Viscosity is expressed in centistokes(cSt) 1 Square mm/1 second = 1 cSt. Fluids that take longer to flow would have a higher Viscosity, and would be referred to as "Thicker".

Then there is the "Apparent Viscosity" or "Acts like" Viscosity. The apparent Viscosity is determined under simulated working conditions using laboratory test equipment. Tests would include:Cold Crank Simulater, Mini-Rotor Viscometer, High Temperature-High Shear, Brookfield Viscosity test. Viscosity in these tests are expressed in Centipoise(cP).

Now back to the question of 75W-90 gear lube.

For most manufactures of gearlubes the 75 number is generaly listed as cSt readings, as is the 90 number.

The SAE has determined that any gear oil that falls within a range between 4. 1 cSt and 7. 0 cSt at 100 Deg. C. can be qualified as a 75W.

And any gear oil that falls between the range of 13. 5 cSt and 24. 0 cSt at 100 deg. C. can be qualified as a 90.

Now if you look at the "Brookfield Viscosity" or the simulated Viscosity test, this test is expressed in centipoise(cP), and is a "Cold Temperature Performance" test, and is tested at -40 C. The limit or maximum is 150,000 cP. The lower the gear lubes Viscosity in cP, the better it flows in cold temperatures.

In the case of the Amsoil series 2000 gear lube, the Kinematic Viscosity at 100 Deg. C is 15. 1 cSt. The Brookfield Viscosity at -40 C. is 35,000 cP.

Then there is the "Viscosity index" of a fluid. This is an empirical number indicating the degree of change in Viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range.

A high VI index indicates a relatively small change with temperature, and a low VI index indicates a relatively large change in Viscosity with temperature.

VI is derived based upon Kinematic Viscosities of a fluid at 40 C. and 100 C.

A fluid whose Viscosity changes little between 40 C. and 100 C. has a higher VI than a fluid whose Viscostiy changes more.

Based on this, a fluid that has a high VI is more desirable, as it has the ability to provide protection over a wider temperature range.

The VI index for the Amsoil 74W-90 series 2000 gear lube is 178.

Sorry for taking so much space, but there is more to Viscosity in oil than one would expect.

wayne
amsoilman


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94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.