making money hauling ???

[JHardwick]

I raced sprint cars for years and the state got real picky about fuel being carried to the track. They were pulling people over just for that reason. As long as it was hauled in an approved container they were cool and nobody got nail for anything commercial.

 

[MMeier]

I'll refrain from further comment on this... for now. All I can say Jeff is this, keep going while you can, your time is coming. :{ You ever read over on hotshothauling?

 

[PatrickCampbell]

That's fine JHardwick, you are not hurting me.



The rule is 150 nautical miles for under 26,000 and under. Over 26,000, it's 100 nautical miles. 150 nautical miles is 172 miles. I have spent hundreds of hours reading FMCSA website, safersys.org, and the little green book.



I also put together a little website. Some ofthis might be a little out of date.



http://xj.cdevco.net/auto/trucking/forhire.html



There are gray lines everywhere. For example, what if you are an amateur racer. In certain sports you do not accept the cash purse to maintain your amateur status. Then in my opinion you are not commerical.



I should add, that there are discrepencies and self contradicting statements all over the FMCSA and safersys.org websites.

 

[10.5 Dave]

we got hammered in penn last year. pulling a 42 ft enclosed race car trailer with car, spare parts, fuel, etc. going to maple grove for a race. car driver and car owner fly in, while myself and another crewmember drive. stopped by DOT. even though we were not getting paid, the event we where going to compete in has a purse to the winner. therefore we were commercial. according to the penn state trooper, we had to have all the above mentioned liscencing and logs, and a hazmat endorsement for the 55 gallon drum of race fuel. it turned out to be a very expensive trip


i'm not a haul for money guy so i won't argue with you about this, but my interpritation is if you get paid to haul anything across state lines, you are commercial and need a dot#.

What ever came of this. I pull a 48' ATC toyhauler and gross about 26k when loaded up and heading for a race.

I'm gonna stay out of Pa that's for sure.

 

[JHardwick]

I'll refrain from further comment on this... for now. All I can say Jeff is this, keep going while you can, your time is coming. :{ You ever read over on hotshothauling?

Nope, never been to that site I don't believe.



I agree that they will eventually figure this out. But, it's not like I am hiding from these guys. I stop in at least 7 states and have asked all the right questions. Why would I spend a bunch of money and limit the miles I can cover if I'm hearing, from the men with badges, that I don't need to? The gray areas are left to interpretation, right now they are in my favor ... ... ... ... . a DOT bear in a pissy mood could wreck my day on one of these trips I suppose.



One of these guys told me that I could be in worse trouble with a bad log book than NO log book ... ... ... ..... so at this point, why would I run one? I think some states (Maine maybe?) get $800 for a log book 5 minutes off

 

[JHardwick]

That's fine JHardwick, you are not hurting me.

I'm not trying to hurt anybody.

The rule is 150 nautical miles for under 26,000 and under. Over 26,000, it's 100 nautical miles. 150 nautical miles is 172 miles.

Just like this! I have never heard anything other than 100 air miles. I dunno, I ask questions and get answers.

I should add, that there are discrepencies and self contradicting statements all over the FMCSA and safersys.org websites.

Exactly, and like I said above, I am not hiding from these guys, if they can't interpret this stuff correctly, how can I?



Plus there is always the ... ... ..... "these are my horses officer"

 

[JHardwick]

Its cash too, so I bet no income tax also. I may not be getting rich, but I am legal.

Lets just say that my accountant has some ... ... ... . umm latitude?



I'm legal as well, as far as I know anyway. Nobody with a badge has ever told me different.



I should have never even posted in this thread, I think I spun out and hit this wall once before.

 

[zstroken]

I know what your saying Jhardwick about asking questions and they tell you something. Unfornately unless you have it in writing, they never told you that. Just cause you nor someone understands the law doesn't make you legal, but you haven't been caught. This isn't a big deal until something happens, accident, etc. Some attorney will get ahold of you for all sorts of stuff. That unfornately is where things go sour.



I have been told the same thing about running my pulling truck, that since we are competing for a cash prize that we are running for money.

 

[JHardwick]

Unfornately unless you have it in writing, they never told you that.

My defense is simple. Florida scans all of my info into their system. Several other states keep the form I fill out on record. I've been in/out of these states numerous times and all of these agents let me freely travel state/state illegally? There is a paper trail to cover my *** with.

 

[GaryOwen]

I suspect the Florida inspection you are referring to is the Dept of Agriculture Inspection station, not the DOT Inspection station. The Agriculture Inspection officers could care less about DOT rules. That is probably the reason you haven't had any problems.



I see lots of trucks running illegally and they never seem to get caught. I personally run completely legal. I figure it is like the old Fram commercial, you can pay me now, or pay me later!



Good luck and stay safe.

 

[DSteimle]

What ever came of this. I pull a 48' ATC toyhauler and gross about 26k when loaded up and heading for a race.



I'm gonna stay out of Pa that's for sure.

the other guy with me (i was sleeping when he got pulled over) recieved citations for no logbook, improper safety equipment, and illegally carrying hazardous material across state lines without proper permitting. we were escorted to a weigh station where we sat for 4 hours waiting for a hotshot with the proper endorsments to pick up the drum of fuel and bring it to the track ($400. 00). the citations totalled to over 1500. 00.



the owner of the car flew back up before the court date to find some answers. he was informed that because he was paying for fuel, hotels and meals that we were commercial drivers, even though we've never been paid one cent in cash . the fact that his car was competing for a purse and contingency made it a commercial venture and therefor so was the transport. he paid the fines (although the other driver still has the flags on his liscence).



funny thing is that we were pulled over by DOT in a plain white trailer with no lettering on it. not for speeding or traffic violation, but for an inspection. still seems to me they were targeting vehicles from out of state that they knew would be coming to maple grove. profiling is wrong

 

[KBalzuweit]

the other guy with me (i was sleeping when he got pulled over) recieved citations for no logbook, improper safety equipment, and illegally carrying hazardous material across state lines without proper permitting. we were escorted to a weigh station where we sat for 4 hours waiting for a hotshot with the proper endorsments to pick up the drum of fuel and bring it to the track ($400. 00). the citations totalled to over 1500. 00.



the owner of the car flew back up before the court date to find some answers. he was informed that because he was paying for fuel, hotels and meals that we were commercial drivers, even though we've never been paid one cent in cash . the fact that his car was competing for a purse and contingency made it a commercial venture and therefor so was the transport. he paid the fines (although the other driver still has the flags on his liscence).



funny thing is that we were pulled over by DOT in a plain white trailer with no lettering on it. not for speeding or traffic violation, but for an inspection. still seems to me they were targeting vehicles from out of state that they knew would be coming to maple grove. profiling is wrong

Things are just getting more and more clear!! Our goverment is destroying our country from within, not to mention taking all of our freedom away!! Instead of being out there trying to catch child molesters, murderers, and all the rest of the scumbags they are spending our tax dollars screwing with a guy just trying to get to race to have some fun!! NOTHING BUT A BUNCH BS!!!

 

[10.5 Dave]

the other guy with me (i was sleeping when he got pulled over) recieved citations for no logbook, improper safety equipment, and illegally carrying hazardous material across state lines without proper permitting. we were escorted to a weigh station where we sat for 4 hours waiting for a hotshot with the proper endorsments to pick up the drum of fuel and bring it to the track ($400. 00). the citations totalled to over 1500. 00.

the owner of the car flew back up before the court date to find some answers. he was informed that because he was paying for fuel, hotels and meals that we were commercial drivers, even though we've never been paid one cent in cash . the fact that his car was competing for a purse and contingency made it a commercial venture and therefor so was the transport. he paid the fines (although the other driver still has the flags on his liscence).

funny thing is that we were pulled over by DOT in a plain white trailer with no lettering on it. not for speeding or traffic violation, but for an inspection. still seems to me they were targeting vehicles from out of state that they knew would be coming to maple grove. profiling is wrong

Holy smokes,that really put a damper on the weekend didn't it. I've heard bad things about Pa treating racers poorly.

I'm illegal but will continue to pull my rig to the track. I would need a class A CDL with a Hazmat endorsement to be legal.

 

[KBalzuweit]

Holy smokes,that really put a damper on the weekend didn't it. I've heard bad things about Pa treating racers poorly.



I'm illegal but will continue to pull my rig to the track. I would need a class A CDL with a Hazmat endorsement to be legal.

Does your toyhauler have living quarters? If it does, put rv (travel trailer) plates on it. Then they can't do anything. This will only work if you do not have the trailer all lettered up. It has worked well for a friend of mine that was pulling 48ft triple axle to the track. He is non cdl, so with reg plates he was way over being legal and now since its considered a rec vehicle no more issues.

 

[DSteimle]

Does your toyhauler have living quarters? If it does, put rv (travel trailer) plates on it. Then they can't do anything. This will only work if you do not have the trailer all lettered up. It has worked well for a friend of mine that was pulling 48ft triple axle to the track. He is non cdl, so with reg plates he was way over being legal and now since its considered a rec vehicle no more issues.

the rv plates and recreational deal will probably work in your home state or close to home. may also be easy to convince DOT your just taking the quads out for the family to ride. drive 20 hours, across numerous states, with a purpose built drag car in the trailer, and the DOT guy doesn't want to hear it's just a hobby. when he had us open the trailer he asked where we were from and where we were going. he asked how much the purse was to win, and my boy told him "it might as well be a million, cause we ain't never come close to winning it". the cop was laughing and being freindly then, after about 10 minutes of inspection, out came the ticket book. the weekend went downhill from there.

 

[KBalzuweit]

the rv plates and recreational deal will probably work in your home state or close to home. may also be easy to convince DOT your just taking the quads out for the family to ride. drive 20 hours, across numerous states, with a purpose built drag car in the trailer, and the DOT guy doesn't want to hear it's just a hobby. when he had us open the trailer he asked where we were from and where we were going. he asked how much the purse was to win, and my boy told him "it might as well be a million, cause we ain't never come close to winning it". the cop was laughing and being freindly then, after about 10 minutes of inspection, out came the ticket book. the weekend went downhill from there.

You are missing the point. If its an RV and you keep it looking like an rv, even put the the little signs on it that says "recreational vehicle" they have no reason to bother you. I have several friends that have no issues that travel all over. It having stickers and all that on the trailer that get you looked at.

 

[DSteimle]

You are missing the point. If its an RV and you keep it looking like an rv, even put the the little signs on it that says "recreational vehicle" they have no reason to bother you. I have several friends that have no issues that travel all over. It having stickers and all that on the trailer that get you looked at.

no point being missed at all. this was a plain white superduty pulling a plain white 42foot pace goosneck. the car owner was informed that because we had the potential to win money, we were commercial! no amount of "rv" or "not for hire" stickers would have changed that. you've been on here posting that because you've never been stopped that you not illegal :-laf . now you're presenting the idea to others on how to run illegal. i didn't offer this info as a trained commercial driver. i don't know what DOT regulations are (being honest, don't care). i'm giving you a first hand accout of an encounter with a penn st. DOT officer on the side of the interstate as info for others to digest. they knew the racers were coming to town and they made their money from us ( and several others). it's really not a situation you can win once your stopped

 

[KBalzuweit]

no point being missed at all. this was a plain white superduty pulling a plain white 42foot pace goosneck. the car owner was informed that because we had the potential to win money, we were commercial! no amount of "rv" or "not for hire" stickers would have changed that. you've been on here posting that because you've never been stopped that you not illegal :-laf . now you're presenting the idea to others on how to run illegal. i didn't offer this info as a trained commercial driver. i don't know what DOT regulations are (being honest, don't care). i'm giving you a first hand accout of an encounter with a penn st. DOT officer on the side of the interstate as info for others to digest. they knew the racers were coming to town and they made their money from us ( and several others). it's really not a situation you can win once your stopped

My original comment was not directed at you. In your case there is no "way around". My comment and question were for roofer dave, since his trailer is a "toy hauler" and can and is used as an rv he can do what I am saying. I am not trying to tell anyone to be illegal, I too am a commercial driver. You were hauling sombody elses stuff, no doubt you were commercial. But in his case its his cars, truck, and trailer. Why do you think so many people are hauling there race cars with motor homes?? Its because being an rv is a loophole in the dot regs.

 

[MMeier]

Why do you think so many people are hauling there race cars with motor homes?? Its because being an rv is a loophole in the dot regs.

So they can basically stay at the track and not have to wory about running back and forth to a hotel for just a few hours everynight. plus the cool factor of having a bigger one then your buddy! :-laf As for the loophole part, things may be a changing come next year. A buddy of mine got pulled over in AZ. 2 months ago hauling his own car to the chassis shop, cop tried to keep busting his balls on the matter , but was warned he will be looked out for in the future !

 

[KBalzuweit]

plus the cool factor of having a bigger one then your buddy! :-laf

Its always funny when the guy that rolls in with $300,000 rig only lives 10 min from the track!