Manual fuel shutoff/Bellhousing?

[RoadGoesOnForever]

My first question is, why couldnt we just use a manual fuel shutoff like on old tractors. I took a look at the solenoid on the motor Im rebuilding and it looke like you could take the solenoid off and then use a cable almost like a choke cable to turn it on and off. The only thing is it would need some way to keep it open because of the spring on the fuel shutoff arm. Perhaps something like what some of the foreign truck have for a parking brake lever but on a smaller scale so it locks it on and is easy to release. Forgive me if it sounds like a dumb thing to do, Im just thinking out loud. Also, its possible I wasnt even looking at the fuel solenoid since I dont have a manual yet to identify some of the parts.

My second question is easy, is the auto bellhousing and manual bellhousing the same pattern. In other words, would all I have to do it switch from a flexplate to a flywheel to put an NV4500 behind a formerly auto motor. I appreciate your help guys.

Tyler

 

[eGarwood]

As far as using a lever or cable to operate the fuel shutdown lever "like on old tractors" I don't see why you couldn't. Speaking from my own experience I had a shutdown solenoid go bad last winter, I was out of work, and didn't have the extra cash to go get one so I removed the inner-fender skirt from the drivers side fender-well and got an old broken off broom handle and used it to reach in and push the lever down to shut off the truck. The lever wants to stay in the 'RUN' position normally so there were no problems starting the truck or running it. (I did not have to use the stick to start the truck). The lever would not allow for 'FULL' fueling during WOT without being held up by the solenloid, so I just didn't mash the pedal. (Lean condition would result) as this is a parts/engine destroying condition, I couldn't lend my truck out to anyone(good excuse) HEHEHEHE. As long as I paid attention to my driving habits I had no problems. I drove the truck as a daily driver for 8 months like this until I could affor to replace it. In the end I cannot however understand why anyone would want to do away with a modern convieience like Ignition-Key-Shutdown, or for that matter go to the trouble of butchering the interior of a new truck, just to add a manual shutdown device. JMHO Ed3

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

I forgot to mention that this is going in a Chevy truck so Im trying to do away with all the electonics except for the starter and grid heaters and sending units. Also, this truck is no show winner, so I dont mind having to do some minor firewall surgery to put the cable through. Im just basically trying to make it a very "industrial" setup to keep everything simple and keep the wiring to a minimum. Also, I was under the impression that the solenoid opened the fuel shutoff so If it didnt work youre engine would not start instead of not being able to shut off if it failed. Keep the suggestions coming guys, I need all the help I can get.

Tyler

 

[CPFF]

You didn't mention what year the motor is. Makes a difference on both questions.

Either type solenoid is easy to wire.

The standard trans. bellhousing is two piece.

"94" and up the front half is the same for auto/std. ,you'd only need the rear half and a flywheel.

"89" thru"93" the front half is thinner,you'd need all three pieces.



CPFF

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

Its a 94 motor, so Im glad to hear about the ease of putting a manual transmission behind it. I still want some sort of manual control of the solenoid. I like the idea of me contolling it directly and I certainly dont want to shell out hundreds of dollars for a new one if it goes out, I think that is a waste of money. Also, I thnk that it takes a good bit of amperage to run the solenoid and it is controlled by the starter engagement which to me seems like too many things to go wrong. Theres gotta be a way to do this easily.

 

[eGarwood]

I forgot to mention that after I found out the solenoid was bad I removed it. If you leave it installed you are correct, it would prevent the Cummins from starting/running. BTW it was in my 95' check my sig.

 

[illflem]

I think you're on the right track. I've always thought that if my solenoid went south I'd just replace it with a pull to stop cable. Could be done cheaply and easily. I don't agree that it would look bad nor would you have to butcher the interior to install it. No locking cable required, cable pushed in would be run. I'll bet Cummins even sells a stop cable kit for our engine, the engine is used on many tractors.

 

[AWM]

the bellhousings are the same,mine was an auto,the six speed bolted right up (after a couple of hours of wrestling it THAT transmission IS BIG!). the perkins 354t that I installed in this truck (years ago) had the same throttle set up you are refering to, couldn't be simpler, with a little head scratchen' you'll figure a way to make it work good luck ,Bob

 

[RoadGoesOnForever]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I knew there was a reason I got my TDR membership. It looks like Ill go to some tractor parts houses and see what they got. Thanks again guys.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

What's the proper order for shutting the engine down if one were to install a manual shut down cable?



Shut off the ignition switch first, or engine first?



Aren't alternators damaged if you run 'em without being energized?... ... as in if the ignition switch was off and the engine was still running.....



Curious... . as usual.



Matt

 

[illflem]

I was taught to shut down the engine first but that was a long time ago, don't know if it still applies.

 

[CPFF]

Shutdown

I don't think it really matters. My son is running a GMC that I put a Perkins in 18 years ago and that has been shutoff every way imaginable and still works.



CPFF

 

[HoleshotHolset]

That's what I was thinking... . shut down the engine first... then kill the ignition switch.



It almost seems funny calling the keyed switch in our steering column an 'ignition switch'... . seeing as we don't really have an ignition. Darn gassers have to go and set a standard that we have to follow.



Matt

 

[QRTRHRS]

I don't know if you could use one of these throttle or PTO cable assemblies or not. Got a local tractor dealer? I am sure they could help.



My CASE has a manual shutoff. I figure with 3700+ hours, it has been shut off key first then selenoid and vise versa. I usually shut off the selenoid then the key. Luckily, I have the original owners manual. Have to see what that says if at all.



http://www.awdirect.com/awdirect/catalog. cfm?dest=dir&linkid=210&linkon=subsection

 

[illflem]

When I was taught to shut down the engine first the reason was to protect the alternator. I know on some rigs the alternator will fry instantly with the key off engine running, sort of doubt if our Cummins is one of these, but am not positive.

 

[53 Willys]

My soleniod went up in smoke about 9 months ago. Not having the $$$ that Dodge wants for a new one I put a PTO cable thru the firewall and to the dash. The truck usually gets shut down key first and I have not had a problem yet. This also works as a cheap anti theft device.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Hrmmm... . PTO cable... . cool!

I was just thinking of using a manual choke cable off a gasser or even a lawnmower cable type setup. Wouldn't it be funny to see the looks on people's faces when you push the lever towards the icon of the running bunny rabbit and your truck shuts off!!



Matt

 

[Scot]

Originally posted by illflem

When I was taught to shut down the engine first the reason was to protect the alternator. I know on some rigs the alternator will fry instantly with the key off engine running, sort of doubt if our Cummins is one of these, but am not positive.

I know some fire trucks are that way. I witnessed when the switch was shut off prior to the engine one time. (If you are reading this Chief, I did not do it!) The headlights went like flash bulbs. Most surviving bulbs died soon after. The alternator and radios survived somehow.

 

[53 Willys]

I tried a choke cable first. After about three days of pushing back in it would kink So i went to the heavier PTO cable. I also had to put a loop in the cable to fit around the pin on the pump shut down lever so it would not bind and flip the lever over for better leverage. I had never given a thought about the Alt. but after 9 months it dosn't seem to bother. I think the problem is with the old external voltage regulater type.