Marco Catcher and 3rd gen???

[JStieger]

I was wondering if he was working on these? If so, what's the status?



I was talking to a 2nd gen guy a Bully Dog Days from the NWBombers (Paul w/ red truck that blew clutch during pull) and he was absolutely gushing about his catcher. Then I started reading all these other Catcher posts on TDR and would think that the catcher + cam + injectors would be the cat's butt! ... i. e. , get rid of/minimize use of those code prone boxes that manipulate the ECM signals and do it directly in the ECM instead; the only drawback would be lack of adjustability I guess.

 

[AK RAM]

Just curious... . help me understand this. Why would you spend twice as much on a Mad ECM versus just using one of the available programmers? Same thing, right?... ... more power via the ECM instead of a box? There are several out there for a total of 10 different programs to choose from that all do different stuff, so your bound to find one that you like. Plus, not like you can take the Mad ECM out and ship it to Italy for Marco to update every time a TSB flash comes out. Programmers can be updated in short order without taking your truck out of commission for two weeks and the ability to update at home via the net is looming on the horizon.



I always wondered that about the 2nd Gen guys as well that praised the Mad ECM. Marco's ECM only produces an extra 65hp on the dyno. Although they don't have any that are as powerful as what we have available for our 3rd Gens, they do have several programmers available for the 2nd Gens that give the same results as the Mad ECM at half the cost?



Am I missing something? Maybe the guys using the Mad ECM just never tried a programmer and didn’t realize they could do the same thing for half the cost? I just don't see the benefit in it outweighing the alternatives by a long shot. Of course, we haven't seen the Mad ECM for the 3rd Gens. Marco could be cooking up a monster using only timing and duration, eliminating the speed limiter, eliminating the 3rd injection event, eliminating torque management, doubling mileage :-laf ……. put me at the top of the list!!! That doesn’t explain the 2nd Gen hype for it though.

 

[JStieger]

Just asking a question, that's all!! :-laf



I had no idea as to the cost and having to ship your ECM off! I agree though about the programmers. I had the BDDL, then sold it recently because I didn't like its lack of in-cab adjustability. If it had that feature, I would have kept it. I'm actually waiting on getting the Juice/Attitude for the 305/555, but not looking forward to buying the Attitude just to be able to control/access all 5x5 levels. Just going to wait out the initial growing pains/codes of the initial release first. Already tried the TST PMCR route, but it was not a match made in heaven due to code and driveability HELL; otherwise, it would have been a no-brainer to keep it due to power for the $ spent.



Anyhow, it still would be interesting to ride in a MAD ECM equipped truck versus a box equipped truck to see what all the hype is about for real, rather than reading about it on here.

 

[AK RAM]

Just asking a question, that's all!! :-laf

Same here. I'm Mad ECM stupid. All I know is what I read. As you said though, the 2nd Gen guys swear by it and I just don't understand it. $500 for 65hp that you can't adjust, can't update (well technically you could)... ... I don't know. I actually figured you may know something I don't... . hence why I asked. If it performs some kind of miracle, I certainly want to know more! Seems kind of like Banks products to me in that it works, but costs twice what it should for what you get.

 

[SHobbs]

Twice as much, don't think so scooter. I paid over 450 for my edge ez for around 45 horses, now for the same money as I understand it I can 65 horses unless the price went up and I don't know it. Also due to some other things we no longer have to send the ECM to Italy, they are available at Source Automotive. You 3rd genners need to understand that along with that high price for the new trucks, your upgrades are gonna cost ya more. Oh and I believe Mad Marco is working on the 3rd gens. No matter what you think about the power level, price or otherwise Marco is the one that cracked the code and gave us another choice for more power and made the mighty Cummins even more fun to drive, oh and I believe (maybe wrong here)that with a catcher in your truck the stealers never know it's there due to you having all the current updates. Try that with an adjustable plug and play. I know for myself the Edge is coming out soon and will be replaced with a catcher, I don't want to tap the wire and chance blowing my VP44. I don't race or sled pull all I do is drag the 5er so a catcher, a good set of sticks, the right turbo for the job and of course a clutch are all I need. I'm sure there are other members that can agree with me on that.

 

[R-N-R]

The catcher is more about driveability than it is about added power. It basically brings on the power much more quickly than the boxes. One way to look at it is that the Catcher decreases the amount of pedal travel to achieve the power.



It is more discreet than an add on box, and the last I heard is that dealer flashes do not interfere with Marco's programming.



In the early days of distribution, it was necessary to source a core yourself or wait for the slow boat (fed-ex) from Italy with your exchange. These days there are a fair amount of cores available in the stream to make swapping more convenient. There are east and west coast distributers to make the transaction easier as well.



I was not aware that these were available for 3rd gen yet. Bob Wagner is the west coast man to contact for more information.

 

[lmills]

We witnessed a Catcher modified truck at our last dyno event. It effects the fueling quite a bit. It may only add a few HP but it brings the fuel on a lot more aggresive. The 24 Valve truck that dynoed with it fueled as hard as a 12 Valve p-pump truck. We have yet to have seen a module produce the fueling that the catcher did down low.

 

[JStieger]

My original post stemmed from a discussion I had with a friend in that we were annoyed with having to just live with maybe some codes or quirks just to have the aftermarket box. A lot of these quirks are a result of communication between the ECM and box due to the signal "strength" (voltages), bad grounds (even though grounded at same battery ground!), etc. So our thought was why not have a replacement ECM with revised programming that can give various features of a box by just peddle position and signals off of already installed factory sensors. That way there are no extra harnesses to give ground problems, poor connection problems, low voltage problems, etc.



That being said, if anyone has a MAD equipped truck around here I would love to go for a ride! Heck I would be willing to drive +/- 4 hours to experience this. If the 3rd gen Catcher was available I would be interested in at least trying it out.



The interesting thing that I have noticed is that some people are still adding the COMP, 2nd Gen TST, Blue Chip, etc even though they have the MAD installed, whereas others abandon these boxes and add injectors instead or just staying with the MAD only.

 

[Scrappy]

if the 3rd gen catcher fuels like the 2nd gen version, stack it with the TST to fix the low speed hole it has and high hp.

 

[Tomeygun]

if the 3rd gen catcher fuels like the 2nd gen version, stack it with the TST to fix the low speed hole it has and high hp.

Low speed hole? - Dont worry, TST is working on it

As you can see by my vids



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135268

 

[Scrappy]

Has TST changed something recently? mine was reflashed last Aug. will the twins program fix this?

 

[Bob Wagner]

Marco has these to work with

I shipped these a while ago



#ad

 

[Big P]

HEHE! Oo. Oo.

 

[AK RAM]

... ... ... it brings the fuel on a lot more aggressive.

No…no…. no…your missing my point. Everyone went straight into Mad ECM defense mode. Very counterproductive to a learning environment. I don’t think everyone is getting the jest of my questions. What makes the Mad ECM worth it. What does it have that the lower priced programmers do not? Like Imills comments above. There's one. So the programmers available for the 2nd Gen guys generally don't have a lot of low end fueling and the Mad ECM does? That is all I'm asking... . what makes the Mad ECM worth it. Think of it as product research. I may want a 3rd Gen Mad ECM when they come out, but not if I don’t see more benefit in them than I currently see for the 2nd Gens.



Julius(sp) originally commented that he is tired of add-on boxes throwing codes and such and was looking forward to ECM programming only. Add on boxes like the Edge EZ are a different beast and I wasn't trying to compare the Mad ECM to those. I was trying to compare swapping your ECM with reprogramming your ECM. When I look at the pros and cons of each, I just don't see the benefit of the higher priced Mad ECM (assuming it is still $500).



What does a Mad ECM for the 2nd Gens retail for these days? Just to compare, HyperTec and Superchips both have 2nd Gen programmers for $399. That is retail and I assume better prices can be had. Now, I don't have a 2nd Gen and I have never seen one of these programmers used (they may be junk), but for $399 retail you get:



Three power levels from 40hp to 70hp (a measure of adjustability)

Raise Top Speed Limiter

Raise Rev Limiter

Change Transmission Shift Points

Cooling Fan On/Off Temperatures

Part Throttle Shifting Corrections when Non-Stock Tires or Gear Ratios are used

Speedo Corrections for Non-Stock Tires

Diagnostic Trouble Codes Reading and Clearing

No tools needed installation in 15 minutes or less

Return to stock at any time



Now again, I don't know, but that is an impressive list of features to choose from with an additional 70hp for $399 that I don’t see on the list of features for the Mad ECM. Help me out here……



In regard to 3rd Gens, they can make plenty of low end power. I spin all 4 tires leaving the line in 4X4 HI (with 315s at that) and no smoke. That is the key, no smoke. Your wasting power if your not burning the fuel efficiently and blowing it out the pipe as smoke. Scrappy, send your TST box back for the twins program upgrade. It is free and fuels instantly instead of waiting for the boost to come up. That is a good starting point and makes a big difference. Let me know if you do though. The power and torque settings work differently on the twins version and you will need to know what has changed before you go ripping down the road with it……hate to see that B1 go pop.



I haven't been called scooter since I was like 10 years old. :-laf

 

[Tomeygun]

Has TST changed something recently? mine was reflashed last Aug. will the twins program fix this?

Well, yes, the twins program fuels staring 4psi -- But that is not what I run...



As far as (off-idle) low boost fueling goes, I will just leave it at "He's working on it"

 

[Tomeygun]

I shipped these a while ago



#ad

WOO-HOO!! I can't wait to see what Marco can do with the 3rd gen!



Way more adjustable than the 2nd gens...

 

[AK RAM]

..... I will just leave it at "He's working on it"

Now that is just wrong. :-laf



I would like to see a TST program with the twins version fueling map, but with the power spread across the 9 level spectrum instead of just the first 5 levels as the current twins version is. Currently, good power can be found on one level with a little room to go, but the next higher level pulls rail pressure down too much. If they would spread it across all 9 levels for better fine tuning, that would be awesome.



I remember Mark saying that he was working on a program that contained both fueling maps and was designing a new remote with a feature that let you select which map you wanted to use on the fly. Is that what's happening or did that idea die?

 

[Tomeygun]

Now that is just wrong. :-laf

I remember Mark saying that he was working on a program that contained both fueling maps and was designing a new remote with a feature that let you select which map you wanted to use on the fly. Is that what's happening or did that idea die?

I have not heard of the two maps idea...

Though thats a cool idea!! -- I will see what details I can dig up

 

[lmills]

all I heard was that the low end punch is getting there and it smokes like crazy down low. I need to drive out some day and get mine reflashed.

 

[JStieger]

if the 3rd gen catcher fuels like the 2nd gen version, stack it with the TST to fix the low speed hole it has and high hp.

There was a recent post I think in the 2nd gen forum where a fellow said it felt like it over fueled and "put the fire out" so he felt better starting out more at part throttle. However, I can't remember if he was running bigger injectors or not.



The other thing that is interesting is guys with the MAD STILL running boxes. Is this because of the adjustability and "mo' power"? Or because the boxes add to the top end and complement the MAD bottom end?



AK Ram - your questions were the ones I wanted to ask, but didn't know how to word them without getting jumped on :-laf



What I would love is TST type timing/duration manipulation but as if VA made it (i. e. , more refined and geared for more daily driving/towing and no codes IMO) all in the ECM. So will the 3rd gen Catcher do this... and more?... we'll just have to wait and see! Bob W keep us posted please!



Now a few more things to throw into the mix:



Bully Dog at Dog Days was saying and handing out literature they will be releasing a new product called the "Triple Dog Power Pup Diesel Downloader" Aug 7. Could it be that it will have programs for all 3 brand trucks??? Or could it be the traditional 3 program downloader for a single brand, but with some added features???



Then, of course if VA ever comes out with the timing/duration box like is rumored they're working on... choices, choices...