Competition MAX HP: 12V or 24V?

[jjohn]

Hey cumminspwr01

What makes you think thats what Joe is not saying?

 

[cumminspwr01]

An educated guess I suppose. It took me a second to understand your question though. So do you think Im right or are you just aggetatin

 

[CumminFast]

p-pumped 24 valve?? Lets face it the sled pullers(Mitchells, Scheids, and Haisley) are leading the hp war. Do they use p-pumped 24 valves??? Hell no. If you want power get a 12 valve and forget the hassle and cost of the conversion.

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by cumminspwr01

An educated guess I suppose. It took me a second to understand your question though. So do you think I'm right or are you just agitating

I don't know if your right about what Joe thinks... I was having a little fun with my comment however. I truly do want to here the details of the opinions rather than just the opinion.



I'm one of those guy's that thought he would be happy just an Edge EZ. Two fueling boxes later... third set of injectors, second turbo, second air intake system..... Starting to see a pattern here? Now I'm buying books on turbo's, I'm on my forth Bosch manual, reading posts and just plain enjoying learning with the limited free time I have. Agitating??? well not on purpose

 

[cumminspwr01]

I understand. I also know that at TiM I got lucky enough to see under one of the unlimited trucks hoods and yes of course there was a p-pump on it. Some people where saying they had 12 cyl pumps on them. Not the one I seen.

 

[GO 4LO]

Originally posted by jjohn

CR Commercial configurations up to 400 mm cubed



*( Bosch "Diesel-Engine Management" ISNB-3-934584-62-4 if your interested. Amazon has decent prices on Bosch manuals)

Is this for number for 5. 9 common rail system or off of a bigger engine? I didn't notice this the first time I read your post!!

Chris

 

[jjohn]

Originally posted by GO 4LO

Is this for number for 5. 9 common rail system or off of a bigger engine? I didn't notice this the first time I read your post!!

Chris

Chris,

There is a chart on page 63 of this book, there are three lines for Common rail injection systems, each line has a use code.



line 1 and 2, CR 1st generation and CR 2nd gen. use code = cars and light truck.



The third line label just "CR" , use code = Trucks and buses. also ships and trains.



They don't specify a particular engine. The third line with the 400 mm3 value says it is applicable to engines from 6 to 16 cylinders with a max power in KW (kilowatts) at 200kw per cylinder. Also gen 1 and 2 have max rpm values at 4800 and 5200 where line three (400 mm3) is rated 2800 max rpm.



CR gen 1 & 2 = 30kw max power per cylinder .

P7100 = 55kw max power per cylinder.

vp44 = (LT configuration) 25kw max power per cylinder .

vp44 = (bus/truck config) 45kw max power per cylinder.

 

[GO 4LO]

Thanks for the information, jjohn. I appreciate it.

Chris

 

[NPloysa]

Pardon the ignorance, but are the P-7100s all mechanical? If so, what else needs to be changed since the 24V is electronic? How do they adapt to the engine? Easily?



Thanks

 

[BPonci]

Joe,what rpm do you make your max hp number?

 

[BillGotthelf]

As one of those old foggies that is too stubborn to change I have flogged my 24v and estimate 700+ hp. I have stuck with the 3200 rpm level and have still had problems with valves. The boost pushes open the valves and the pistons shut them. There are no readily available valve springs for the 24v just custom stuff for big bucks. We used new valves, cut the valve seats and installed hardened seats We then cut the seats so that all valve stems were within . 001, which allowed us to add . 060 shims. That solved our valves not closing but this won't work with more than 80lbs of boost or the 4000+ rpm some of the 12v's see. There are many more options for valve springs for the 12v heads as the spring sizes match up real well with gas motor valve springs. The fuel and timing is another issue and as ijector vendors don't like to let out there secrets I believe the biggest 12v injectors will flow more fuel than the 24v injectors.

 

[GO 4LO]

Originally posted by BillGotthelf

As one of those old foggies that is too stubborn to change I have flogged my 24v and estimate 700+ hp. I have stuck with the 3200 rpm level and have still had problems with valves. The boost pushes open the valves and the pistons shut them. There are no readily available valve springs for the 24v just custom stuff for big bucks. We used new valves, cut the valve seats and installed hardened seats We then cut the seats so that all valve stems were within . 001, which allowed us to add . 060 shims. That solved our valves not closing but this won't work with more than 80lbs of boost or the 4000+ rpm some of the 12v's see. There are many more options for valve springs for the 12v heads as the spring sizes match up real well with gas motor valve springs. The fuel and timing is another issue and as ijector vendors don't like to let out there secrets I believe the biggest 12v injectors will flow more fuel than the 24v injectors.

You probably already realize this, but Mitchell and Haisley both sell 24V valvetrain that is *supposed* to let you rev to 4k. Do you happen to have experience with either of these setups?

Chris

 

[BillGotthelf]

No I have not checked them out or heard of anyone using them. The problem with the 24v springs is they are so small, they don't allow much room for a 2nd smaller spring inside the main spring. In addition with the small size and height you really have to be carefull of spring bind also.

 

[GO 4LO]

Thanks for the input, Bill - you always add a lot of technical info to my threads. What exactly is the purpose of the inner spring? Does it protect against fatigue better than a stiffer single outer spring?

Chris

 

[sbentz]

24V Valve Sping

We are running some super single springs that I found, that fit and work fine at 80 PSI boost, 3900 RPM...



Need info, PM me.

 

[CumminFast]

As one of those old foggies that is too stubborn to change I have flogged my 24v and estimate 700+ hp.

Get real man. 700 hp for your 24v is going to take nitrous. You are probably right at 600 or maybe even a little below.

 

[BillGotthelf]

Wanna bet?

 

[nfox]

HP 24V

What kind of torque numbers do you have Bill? Not too many 24v's in the high hp range, without the use of some kind of drugs, i am not trying to make you pi$$ed off or anything, just 700 sounds a little high for your setup.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Bill I have to agree here, if your at 700 uncorrected then your doing some good stuff, if you would rather be quiet about it I can understand that... ... BOTW, I like your transmission and turbo's



Jim

 

[propuller]

Im at 632 on #2 only & that was with a blown boot between stages making only a little over 50 lbs of boost. I know its making more i just dont have the dyno sheets to prove it yet. I know of at least one 24 valve that made 700 on just # 2 with a stock vp & im sure theres more out there. It is rare but its not impossible. Bye the way i made 700. 2 with a small shot of nitrous. Stock valvetrain all under 3200 rpm.



Kurt