Members in the paint and body business?

[cumminsgetme]

It's about time to repaint the ol' goat. I have been thinking of trying to tackle this task myself. I have a little experience in painting, but never on vehicles. My plan is to do the tailgate from start to finish, then inspect my workmanship to decide whether or not to try the entire truck. I'm doing this mainly to save $$ on high prices from the body shop. I have considered doing the body work myself, then having someone spray the paint for me. Can any of you give me any pointers? I have also considered using Maaco (sp?), but don't know much on the quality of work they do. Guess I should go by and check them out. Someone shoot me some ideas or at least talk me out of doing it myself



Thanks

Cord

 

[DUNE RACER]

I'm not in the paint or body business but I've painted a couple of vehicles from primer to clear coat. Its a ton of work to try to get blemish free paint on an entire vehicle without professional equipment. If I did it again I would do all the body work, strip and prep the truck and have Maaco do the spraying in their booth. They may not be to good at an overall paint job but they have the HVLP guns and equipment to lay down a good coat if the prep is good. Just a thought to save some $$$ and still get a good job.

 

[B KIRK]

If your truck is a non metalic color, you could one step it with either Acrylic Enamel with a hardner, or Urethane. If you have metalic, (or pearl), you would have to two step it, (base coat-clear coat) with Urethane. Acrylic Enamels are easy to work with and don't require any special guns. The Urethanes are a little harder to work with, and for proper finish require better guns. With either product you can wet sand any dust or rough finishes out with 1500 - 2000 grit sandpaper, then buff with a microfinishing compound. The end finish is determined by the amount of work you want to put into it. What ever you do, stay with the same brand product line through entire process. For Urethane, I prefer PPG brand. A truck is a lot of work, but if you have the time, it's worth doing. I painted my truck, (Brad's Ram in Readers Rigs) and complained the whole time I did it, but end results were worth it.



Brad

 

[WeirCummin]

Cord,

After yesterday I would think you'd want to do brakes first, or at least adjust the rears. Maybe it's that with a smooth shiny fresh paint job it will help you cheat the wind better. Looks like I'd better wax mine, that should be good for about 5mph topend, think? I'd do the bodywork, buy the paint and find someone to shoot it for you. Without a booth and the right equipment it's difficult to do a good job, I've tried.

 

[MDW]

Cord: Looks like I will be doing the same thing real soon. The paint on the roof of mine is flaking off, not peeling flaking

I will be keeping a close eye on this thread as I need all the advice I can get.

BTW: I have the HVLP rig.

 

[Don M]

Cord,



I have painted several cars in my high school and twenty year old days (camaro, mustang, GTO,etc) I also worked in a custom truck shop in my twenties as a painter. Autobody was a High School course I took for two years. After the shop went out of business I got out of the autobody biz.



Your final job will only look as good as the amount of prep work you put before the final coat.

Wet sanding the entire truck and removing every little imperfection is the key. After that is all done, you guidecoat the entire truck and wet sand it again. It takes hours of work.

If your existing paint is not chiping and peeling you can generally leave the old paint on and seal over it.



Prices of good quality Urethane paint will make you stand back for a few moments. It is spendy. These kinds of jobs will nickel and dime you to death. Abrasives, tape, masking paper, primer, filler, putty, surfacer, sealer, tack rags, etc.

A guy could spend 500 bucks fast. Now you need a good gun and a good booth to shoot it in.



Doing a good job the first time is what you want. Maaco, Peach, Earl... all these places generally do a cruddy job. You can find tons of problems with most of the work they do.



The cool part is, you can do it in stages. Sanding a little here and there. Pop out a few dents here and there. Purchase stuff as you go.



Too bad you are so far away... I could help you out if you were a tad closer.



Don~

 

[cumminsgetme]

The truck is silver non-metallic and I plan to repaint it with the original color, however, if I'm going to do it I want to change the scheme up a little. I'm planning on a two tone with a darker lower portion.

WeirCummin,

Brakes??? What are those?? I saw something smoking yesterday but it wasn't coming from the engine, so everything should be fine . It wasn't my fault,... that was a bad place for a stoplight... . they should have known we would be running 112mph in that area We did a lot of racing and covered a lot of ground,..... I'm really glad we never ran into any law dogs..... we both would have gone straight to jail.

MDW,

Sounds like we need to get your HVLP warmed up. I'll be the guinea pig if you'd like. I'm definately going to do the tailgate first. I would hate to paint the whole truck only to find out that I really suck at painting .

DonM,

Your in the DFW area right??? I would definately be willing drive a couple hours to get some one on one pointers. If the tailgate doesn't turn out I'm going to do the body work then let someone spray it for me, as WeirCummin suggested. How's your truck coming?



Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[Don M]

Cord, Yeah Im in the D/FW metro. It pretty much sucks if you hate traffic like me.

My truck is going in the shop today to get the timing set.

I still feel something else is not quite right as well.

You are more than welcome to drive up here anytime. I can help ya out. I have a weird schedule so let me know.



112 MPH should get you here in no time



Don~

 

[cumminsgetme]

Thanks Don. I'll look you up when I get back from Pahrump. I hope you have your truck up and running by then. It will be interesting to compare our trucks. I'm going to be putting on my new pump while I'm out there. Hoping for a big improvement.

 

[Rnpeder]

Peeling paint

I may be beating a dead horse, but if your paint is peeling or flaking it could be delamination. If your not sure, do some research. www.peelingpaint.homestead.com is a good reference. If you are willing to pursue it, it sound like you can get dodge to paint it for you. TDR has enough muscle, I think that if enough members complained, there may be alot of painting going on. I personally am in the process of starting a small claims suit against them. It is funny that I have received recalls on all sorts of other defects, but none on the paint. I dont think they want anyone to know about it. The paint shop at a local Dodge shop told me to take my truck to the service writer and see they would offer any "good will" assistance. They offered $300. HA HA HA HA. If its peeling in one spot now, it will peel in other places later.

 

[B KIRK]

Cord, if you are planning to paint the lower panels a different color, you should consider doing it with a spray on bedliner material. Steve St. Laurent had this done to his truck, and according to his posts, was pleased with the job. Would be durable and hide a lot of paint chip marks. If I had to do this over again, that is the way I would go. Something to consider.



Brad

 

[Deezul1]

Hey Cord the only way for YOU to do this is to sand off all the old paint otherwise it will be to heavy with the extra paint to beat Chris

 

[cumminsgetme]

Deezul1,

I'm not worried about Chris I've got my new pump . Well... ... I just had to talk a little trash . We're both to stubborn to swallow our pride... I want to race him from a 30mph punch... . he wants to race me from a dead stop. I'll tell ya', his 4wd lauches are tough to beat. I would have a lot of ground to make up. His auto vs. my 5spd????hmmm... . Chris wins the race from a dead stop and I win the 30 puch (that's assuming he hasn't learned some new tricks I don't know about!!). Hey Chris..... wanna' run a 30 punch

 

[emarsh]

For the experts: my 93 Dakota (white) is flaking off in spots but the rest is perfect? Someone told me that during the period the truck was built & painted the manufacturers were forced by the EPA to change the formula in their paint, and they did'nt get it right for a while. Is there any truth to this, cause I seem to notice other makes about the same vintage had similiar problems?

 

[Matt42]

How About Faded & Chalked 1996 Emerald?

Has anyone had any success in getting the faded and chalked Emerald metallic paint redone? Mine hasn't flaked off, at least not yet.



Thanks. Chalking in Glendale

 

[M Barnett]

One thing I wanted to mention that nobody else has, is the danger involved. The newer paints contain ISOs which you just can't breathe. You will need a fresh air breathing system and there goes another several hundred dollars. I would suggest removing the old paint because if delamination occurs, the new paint will go with it. You will have to do a lot of studying the different paints and how to do the repairs. I would suggest doing the primer and all the sanding and let a pro do the paint. The easest to do is base coat-clear coat. This paint is easy to repair if you get runs or dirt in the paint. Enamel takes a long time to dry enough to repair and isn't as easy to work with. ----Michael

 

[1 ALC]

Paint Job.....

Well, I work as a body shop manager. I’ve been in this biz for about 10 long years now. When a customer comes by our shop for an “all over paint job” I discourage it. We specialize in collision work, reason being the techs and shop make much more money doing those rather than an all over paint job. It comes down to labor hours average paint time on a panel is 2. 5-3. 0 hours – a good painter can do 4-5 of these a day, all better techs are paid by how much they can ‘turn’ – not clock hours. Doing collision work (only small individual panels at a time) that tech can turn between 50 to 75 hours per 40hr week, that’s a business standard.

Now, on an all over repaint, if its priced for 40 labor hours (refinish only – no body work) it would take that same tech at least 5 days to do it. BTW 40 hours here is $1360. 00 just for paint labor – no materials.

In addition, the body work involved is, take off all emblems, door handles,front and rear bumpers, bed asmbly (we never paint beds on the truck – you can’t wrap the paint around the back of the cab, or front of the bed), and hoods, the paint on the Dodges will not rap over the edge of the fenders and look right if the hood is on the truck when you spray it. This bodywork to get it ready to paint would be another 8 to 10 hours… $340. 00. If its peeling it must be stripped – another 8-10 hours of hard labor $340. 00. materials will run (for a Urethane or Base coat clear) another 400. 00 to 600. 00. This gets us to nearly $2700. 00 for no dents, scratches, or anything which would take more time. Even in this scenerio, bodyshop workers are the most underpaid in any technical profession similar requiring the experience and training!

Maaco pays by the clock hour, most people work there long enough to learn basics and get a job in a collision shop making about 10 to 20 thousand more per year.

Unless you can pay the big bucks, your best bet is to find, and befriend, a GOOD painter and see if he will do it ‘on the side’ and rent a booth. , you’ll need a heated one with downdraft and an oven. HVLP saves some materials (not much) and was introduced mainly because of the EPA – the old style high pressure guns do a better job, because they atomize the paint better.

Sorry for the long post, good luck.

 

[1 ALC]

M. Barnett is exactly right. Most all newer pant systems use hardners which contain isocyanates (sp?),..... Supplied fresh air systems are required by the EPA. The parts are too dense - even in a good flowing booth for a cheap filter respirator.

 

[Don M]

Yep, your right on with that post. Part of the reason I got out of paint and body after high school. All I had to do was take a few trips to the local body shops and see for myself that autobody was not for me as career. Too much risk on my self and not enough money for the work. I did manage to land a paint only job at a custom truck shop. I did little to none in prep work and got to shoot only.



Todays newer paints are ladden with nasties like poly-isocyanates as you said. Cyanide gas is not something you want in your system, that being said... . small exposures IMO is not the life threatening thing many think. The regulations assume that painters will shoot this stuff on a regular basis. I may spray two cars in as many years and dont get all nervous over exposure.



I do not recommend anyone not use the equipment though.

I just wear a standard respirator and ventilate well. I still favor the old time guns as you do. HVLP was not something I was trained to use and the one time I did, I did not like the results.



Don~