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Mid-Tenn Chapter Roundtable
- Thread starter WadePatton
- Start Date
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CP3?
Wasn't that R2D2's buddy? :-laf
Where'd purple guy go? Weren't yall talking about clutches?
Friend of mine is going to shove a 4BT down the throat of a early 80's Jeep Wagoneer. I gave him your number Steve. Anybody else have hands on with a 4BT swapperoo, let me know. Reckon the 1/2 ton driveline will take it?--stock.
Doggone, Bean just settled right in here like he know'd us... (he's been lurking for some time. ) Hey, what about yer Pop's Panel truck?
Wasn't that R2D2's buddy? :-laf
Where'd purple guy go? Weren't yall talking about clutches?
Friend of mine is going to shove a 4BT down the throat of a early 80's Jeep Wagoneer. I gave him your number Steve. Anybody else have hands on with a 4BT swapperoo, let me know. Reckon the 1/2 ton driveline will take it?--stock.
Doggone, Bean just settled right in here like he know'd us... (he's been lurking for some time. ) Hey, what about yer Pop's Panel truck?
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Purple Clutch Guy?
Well, I have been called a lot of things, but this is a first!
I do sorta resent the peddlar remark, sales ain't what I do, I have been going out and doing a LOT of training sessions with our customer base, last week was the National NAPA Sales Meeting, Dallas TX.
I must of missed the clutch question in all of this, so whats up Mid-TN gang?
FYI, the new 2007 G56 is doing real good, Banks 6 gun, Intercooler, Exhaust, SRT hood, body matching step boards and rear body side lowers, tonneau cover, should have it back from the body shop by wednesday, I did the Banks work myself with a little help on the intercooler and exhaust from our team. The 6 Gun with the PDA gives you an OBDII tester, that's a nice feature, used it already.
And we have a prototype solid F/W in it too!
Well, I have been called a lot of things, but this is a first!
I do sorta resent the peddlar remark, sales ain't what I do, I have been going out and doing a LOT of training sessions with our customer base, last week was the National NAPA Sales Meeting, Dallas TX.
I must of missed the clutch question in all of this, so whats up Mid-TN gang?
FYI, the new 2007 G56 is doing real good, Banks 6 gun, Intercooler, Exhaust, SRT hood, body matching step boards and rear body side lowers, tonneau cover, should have it back from the body shop by wednesday, I did the Banks work myself with a little help on the intercooler and exhaust from our team. The 6 Gun with the PDA gives you an OBDII tester, that's a nice feature, used it already.
And we have a prototype solid F/W in it too!
Banks might as be a four letter word around here.
C3PO, I like it.
Pops panel is still in the same shape it was a year ago, need to get to it and get it rollin. Also will have a 4b goin in a jacked up monster truck that buck is building, he is gonna run the rockwells with hydraulic motors and turn a pump with the 4b. We are not sure what good this truck will be for but I am sure buck will find a use somewhere lol.
C3PO, I like it.
Pops panel is still in the same shape it was a year ago, need to get to it and get it rollin. Also will have a 4b goin in a jacked up monster truck that buck is building, he is gonna run the rockwells with hydraulic motors and turn a pump with the 4b. We are not sure what good this truck will be for but I am sure buck will find a use somewhere lol.
GCroyle said:
LOL! You got my attention with that one. :-laf Now you gotta admit Andy, that one was pretty good.
:-lafYeah, good zing Gary. Back when I used to write code, I could do binary math in my head. I'd be lucky now to be able to do it with a calculator
Hey Hans, how you like that new turbo? Man, I don't see how your clutch stands all that power. I put in some Mach 3's for a week and could spin (not slip) my clutch in 3rd-6th gears with more than about half throttle. Of course about the time I got to half throttle, the tach was burried (see spinning clutch above), and I was at 1psi fuel pressure. Sticks are back out of motor and clutch seems to be holding okay for now.
Hey Hans, how you like that new turbo? Man, I don't see how your clutch stands all that power. I put in some Mach 3's for a week and could spin (not slip) my clutch in 3rd-6th gears with more than about half throttle. Of course about the time I got to half throttle, the tach was burried (see spinning clutch above), and I was at 1psi fuel pressure. Sticks are back out of motor and clutch seems to be holding okay for now.
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That's pretty much what it felt like... truck stopped pulling hard, tach burried, and the truck felt like it was on a patch of ice. I say "spin" not "slip" to emphasize that there seemed to be very little friction between the flywheel - friction plate - pressure plate. Free wheeling is a pretty good description Scott.
When I'd roll on the throttle in 6th, the stick would start jerking around and the truck would start shaking.
To be perfectly fair, let me re-iterate that I'm not the original owner of the clutch. It was in the truck when I bought it. It was less than 9months old, although that doesn't really mean much.
Regardless, I pulled the Mach 3's and the clutch seems to be holding okay for now.
When I'd roll on the throttle in 6th, the stick would start jerking around and the truck would start shaking.
To be perfectly fair, let me re-iterate that I'm not the original owner of the clutch. It was in the truck when I bought it. It was less than 9months old, although that doesn't really mean much.
Regardless, I pulled the Mach 3's and the clutch seems to be holding okay for now.
I guess with a name like Perfection clutch he probably hasnt!! Just Kidding man!Clutch Slipping
You are right, I have not been in a "super strong" truck that could break through a clamped / fully engaged clutch. The strongest trucks that I have been in are Andy's old truck, Wade's smashed door special and Josh's. I did drive a Mitsubishi Spyder that slipped in all gears anytime so I know what it feels like.
My point is, from a clutch guys perspective, if your foot is off of the clutch pedal, then 1 rpm input at the crankshaft = 1 rpm at the transmission input shaft, simply no slipping allowed. Andy, if you power up and the tach spikes like an automatic, then you are slipping. I think you mentioned jumping or bucking or something, that could have been the clutch trying to re-lock, or the rear springs bouncing and traction was on / off / on, not sure though. The slipping creates extreme heat in the facings, flywheel face and pressure plate casting. The heat created is probably the number one killer of anybody's clutch system. We have all read posts about some hotshot rig getting 250,000 miles out of a system hauling heavy, they did that because the total heat time was kept at a minimum. Respectful starts in first gear (loaded) I regularly get our 97 rolling without any fuel in first gear with the 40' trailer on it. Before you guys jump on me, you are all correct, I do not have a personal high performance truck, mine is stock, but I sure got the diesel fever a couple of years ago and bought my '05, maybe soon I can start playing with it, we'll see.
You are right, I have not been in a "super strong" truck that could break through a clamped / fully engaged clutch. The strongest trucks that I have been in are Andy's old truck, Wade's smashed door special and Josh's. I did drive a Mitsubishi Spyder that slipped in all gears anytime so I know what it feels like.
My point is, from a clutch guys perspective, if your foot is off of the clutch pedal, then 1 rpm input at the crankshaft = 1 rpm at the transmission input shaft, simply no slipping allowed. Andy, if you power up and the tach spikes like an automatic, then you are slipping. I think you mentioned jumping or bucking or something, that could have been the clutch trying to re-lock, or the rear springs bouncing and traction was on / off / on, not sure though. The slipping creates extreme heat in the facings, flywheel face and pressure plate casting. The heat created is probably the number one killer of anybody's clutch system. We have all read posts about some hotshot rig getting 250,000 miles out of a system hauling heavy, they did that because the total heat time was kept at a minimum. Respectful starts in first gear (loaded) I regularly get our 97 rolling without any fuel in first gear with the 40' trailer on it. Before you guys jump on me, you are all correct, I do not have a personal high performance truck, mine is stock, but I sure got the diesel fever a couple of years ago and bought my '05, maybe soon I can start playing with it, we'll see.
First, great information.
Second, I really don't think anybody is throwing stones your way. I think Justin meant that with a name like Perfection Clutch, your clutches won't give way, so you won't have experienced slippage regardless of HP.
Third, well... back to first. Great information. At first, I thought I was making enough power to break the wheels loose, but after paying more attention, it was evident that I was not transferring power to the transmission. The more I pushed it the more it slipped. I reall don't think I ever had a traction problem. I'm pretty sure I didn't have the HP/TQ to break traction in 3rd-6th while only rolling on the throttle. Therefore I'd be more inclined to believe that the clutch was trying to re-lock.
To be fair, I know the previous owner had cattle and he did mention that he had picked up some baldy's in Florida. I can only assume that he's not an experienced tow'er and damaged the clutch? I dunno. I'm not overly concerned about where to lay blame. I'm just more curious to diagnose the problem and try and determine how long the one thats in there is gonna last.
Thanks for the info.
Next time we get you down here, we'll get in you in Joe's 12v. It's Fast!
Second, I really don't think anybody is throwing stones your way. I think Justin meant that with a name like Perfection Clutch, your clutches won't give way, so you won't have experienced slippage regardless of HP.
Third, well... back to first. Great information. At first, I thought I was making enough power to break the wheels loose, but after paying more attention, it was evident that I was not transferring power to the transmission. The more I pushed it the more it slipped. I reall don't think I ever had a traction problem. I'm pretty sure I didn't have the HP/TQ to break traction in 3rd-6th while only rolling on the throttle. Therefore I'd be more inclined to believe that the clutch was trying to re-lock.
To be fair, I know the previous owner had cattle and he did mention that he had picked up some baldy's in Florida. I can only assume that he's not an experienced tow'er and damaged the clutch? I dunno. I'm not overly concerned about where to lay blame. I'm just more curious to diagnose the problem and try and determine how long the one thats in there is gonna last.
Thanks for the info.
Next time we get you down here, we'll get in you in Joe's 12v. It's Fast!
AndyMan said:
I agree with Andy. From my point of view, and personally for me, your knowledge and information has been extremely helpful. Everything has been straight forward and honest.
When I chose to use the stage 2 set up, you stated what the minor drawbacks would be compared to the stage one. The clutch reacted just as you stated. I think you said it this way " Do you want drivability or torque capacity?" A little change in driving habits and now it drives like a stock clutch 99% of the time.
And yea, Joe's truck is fast
Thick Skinned
No, I don't feel like anyone has taken a shot, I truly enjoy the open communication and jabs, it makes my day sometimes to take a minute and pound the keyboard with the Mid-TN gang. I have had many chances to speak about the Mid-TN gang to my co-workers and customers. Most of them have no idea about the diesel nuts that are out there and the tremendous market that it represents.
One thing that that series of e-mails points out is something that I see on a regular basis, clutches are misunderstood, period.
I don't know how many Clutch 101 Clinics I did last year and the schedule is filling up for this spring already, but for most line techs, a clutch is a "black box", they don't see it work, don't understand what happens when you push the clutch pedal, what is the sequence of events, what parts contribute to the transmission of power (torque) allow for control on demand rather than suprize, what parts keep it quiet, and then lets add some SERIOUS torque, incredible expectations (sled pulling) and drive it to work on monday, so we can play on saturday. No complaints at all, I chose this product line and enjoy it alot. But one closing thought, MANY techs think that modern clutches still have freeplay at the bearing, ain't so. The TOB is in constant contact as soon as the transmission is installed, it NEVER backs off, but techs are still looking for freeplay, or trying to put it in when it is not supposed to be there.
What I can offer is either clutch facts (test data and reports) or my best opinion of what is going on in the bell housing, remember, no one has ever shown me an OBDII scan code for what a clutch is doing or not doing.
FYI, I am going to put together a proposal for a TDR openhouse at Perfection Clutch this spring, my boss gave me a green light, I know it is a long drive for the Mid-TN gang, but we could stand to get something going here is SC, we have some trucks here too.
Best regards to all.
No, I don't feel like anyone has taken a shot, I truly enjoy the open communication and jabs, it makes my day sometimes to take a minute and pound the keyboard with the Mid-TN gang. I have had many chances to speak about the Mid-TN gang to my co-workers and customers. Most of them have no idea about the diesel nuts that are out there and the tremendous market that it represents.
One thing that that series of e-mails points out is something that I see on a regular basis, clutches are misunderstood, period.
I don't know how many Clutch 101 Clinics I did last year and the schedule is filling up for this spring already, but for most line techs, a clutch is a "black box", they don't see it work, don't understand what happens when you push the clutch pedal, what is the sequence of events, what parts contribute to the transmission of power (torque) allow for control on demand rather than suprize, what parts keep it quiet, and then lets add some SERIOUS torque, incredible expectations (sled pulling) and drive it to work on monday, so we can play on saturday. No complaints at all, I chose this product line and enjoy it alot. But one closing thought, MANY techs think that modern clutches still have freeplay at the bearing, ain't so. The TOB is in constant contact as soon as the transmission is installed, it NEVER backs off, but techs are still looking for freeplay, or trying to put it in when it is not supposed to be there.
What I can offer is either clutch facts (test data and reports) or my best opinion of what is going on in the bell housing, remember, no one has ever shown me an OBDII scan code for what a clutch is doing or not doing.
FYI, I am going to put together a proposal for a TDR openhouse at Perfection Clutch this spring, my boss gave me a green light, I know it is a long drive for the Mid-TN gang, but we could stand to get something going here is SC, we have some trucks here too.
Best regards to all.
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Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
