Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) "MIL" on & P1689 code set

[JohnMcIntyre]

After almost 90,000 miles on the odometer from brand new, I just registered my first diagnostic code.



As per ToolManTimTaylor's excellent list of P-codes listed in this forum's FAQ section, I can unfortunately confirm that my truck is a bit sick with these symptoms. IOW, No(/intermittent?) communications between ECM and the injection pump module according to the DRB Scan display and the DTC description indicates a datalink circuit failure between ECM and the fuel injection pump, resulting in low power, engine derating or the engine stops.



My problem (currently) only becomes obvious at start-up from cold/hot, when it takes on average between three or four attempts to settle down into a steady tickover, accompanied by several clouds of big black smoke.



Whilst driving, the engine doesn't miss a beat, but I am being extra careful until I can get this sorted properly and hopefully in the next day or so.



Any suggestions, hints, guidelines and/or recommendations on how to narrow this down would be much appreciated guys - especially as I am at least 3500 miles from the nearest Dodge dealership! ( I'm based in Europe).



Cheers!!

 

[Marco]

John,

doesn't sound good. Most times that code means the computer on the VP is going south. I would start to take off the VP's conector and clean it. It's clear that if there was an electrical gremlin it could cause the VP's computer to have an momentary power loss, thus the code... never seen that happen though.



Marco

 

[Challenger-II]

I agree with Marco... . a couple weeks ago, I got the same code and it was my VP-44.

Sorry. . at least you aren't alone in this.

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Another one bites the dust?

I agree with Marco... . a couple weeks ago, I got the same code and it was my VP-44.

Sorry. . at least you aren't alone in this.

Thanks for the quick response... . So did you just swap out the VP-44 or get it rebuilt or did you change out anything else (like the lift pump?) for good measure as well?



At what point is the VP-44 considered to be beyond salvage I wonder? Is it best just to fit a new one, or can the original be refurbished and still leave you with peace of mind? Is the failure perhaps a symptom of the original fuel pump design or is it caused/associated with something else - I don't know..... ?. but if you check my truck profile, you'll see that I have been running a bombed truck for more than 85,000 trouble free miles... ... Any thoughts, observations etc, welcomed as always... .



JMc

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Goin' south....?

John, doesn't sound good. Most times that code means the computer on the VP is going south. I would start to take off the VP's conector and clean it. It's clear that if there was an electrical gremlin it could cause the VP's computer to have an momentary power loss, thus the code... never seen that happen though.



Marco

Cheers Marco!

Hmm, so you reckon the VP-44 fuel pump is (almost?) past it's sell-by date eh? Makes you wonder if the Lift Pump could/might have anything to do with a premature failure? symptoms/causes etc... . oh well, I guess I should be grateful, I finished my last European road trip and am back in England again, rather than dealing with this problem whilst out travelling in Europe...



JMc

 

[Challenger-II]

Thanks for the quick response... . So did you just swap out the VP-44 or get it rebuilt or did you change out anything else (like the lift pump?) for good measure as well?

On my truck it was obvious... . it just shut off dead! :{ It depends on what went bad in the pump or the electronics as to how it dies. You are lucky if it shows you some warning signs. This way you can choose where to park your truck. I recently posted on a new VP verses a rebuilt one... I personally went with a brand new one but after the replies to my post, I would feel comfortable with a rebuild from a reputable source. My lift pump is fairly new and putting out ok pressures so no need to change. Yes... a bad lift pump, which is almost certain on our trucks will take out your VP-44. #@$%! inferior design. I was told that there have been some design changes on the newer VP versions that make them more reliable. who knows?



Good luck!

 

[Marco]

John,

just one advice. If you need a new VP don't even think about buying one in Europe! I know of a guy in Germany who paid 5K Euro for a new VP from Bosch... Much cheaper in the States!



Marco

P. S. If I can help you, let me know.

 

[gtobey]

Be sure to install a new lift pump with the VP44 and a fuel pressure gauge. Get one from Geno's Garage and install it. Best insurance against VP44 failure from a lunched lift pump!

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Piers to the rescue!!

John,

just one advice. If you need a new VP don't even think about buying one in Europe! I know of a guy in Germany who paid 5K Euro for a new VP from Bosch... Much cheaper in the States!



Marco

P. S. If I can help you, let me know.

Cheers Marco!

I'm off to my local Cummins Europe workshop in Wellingborough, near Northampton, England on Thursday morning 14 April - I have an 8am appointment with the workshop supervisor.



I have also been in contact with some good TDR people in Texas and California and it looks like I'm going to buy a new Bosch VP-44 fuel pump and a lift pump from Piers at PDR in Canada. I'll then take off the original items and get them checked over and refurbished by Piers and then put to one side for my next rainy day :{ in another 90,000+ (trouble-free) miles.....



This is going to be an expensive month, but I get to update my sigfile in a constructive way! It's ironic that with all the goodies I have installed over the years, the first thing that went south at 43,000+ miles was the Oil pressure sender, whilst travelling through Brussels in Belgium just over two and a half years ago and then this "hiccup" at 90,000 miles - both of which are OEM items from Dodge..... It's a pity that Dodge OEM cannot keep up with the Bombs' quality and remember this is my daily driver, on the road 5 out of every 7 days minimum, having travelled all over Europe and Scandinavia from the depths of winter (-20 deg Centigrade) to the highs of Summer (+40 deg Centigrade), more often than not hauling my Lance 1130 slide-in camper. (not forgetting my cross country trips through the USA and Canada in 2000 and 2001)



I must really get around to psyching myself up to put up a 100,000 miles no-holds barred progress report into the TDR early next year, when I break the 100,000 mile marker and claim my free TDR 100k veterans' sticker!!



JMc

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Goto thread start....

Be sure to install a new lift pump with the VP44 and a fuel pressure gauge. Get one from Geno's Garage and install it. Best insurance against VP44 failure from a lunched lift pump!

Thanks for the tip... . actually this was my own line of thinking also and it's reassuring to know I was on the money. I have had a full set of three dual SPA Mk. 1 gauges installed since day#1 ... .....



#ad




(see the truck specification in my sigfile weblink at the start of this message thread).



JMc

 

[BPINE]

Hey John those gauges sure look familiar !!!! I think you are on the right track with the VP 44 but if you want to be sure I have a tester for the VP that might help.

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

VP44 tester

Hey John those gauges sure look familiar !!!! I think you are on the right track with the VP 44 but if you want to be sure I have a tester for the VP that might help.

Blair - good of you to chime in! I'm listening... . tell me about the VP-44 tester.....



JMc

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Catcher ECM?

John,

just one advice. If you need a new VP don't even think about buying one in Europe! I know of a guy in Germany who paid 5K Euro for a new VP from Bosch... Much cheaper in the States!



Marco

P. S. If I can help you, let me know.

Okay Marco, is there a "Catcher 101" primer? Tell me more please?



JMc

 

[Marco]

CaTCHER 101 primer?????????????????? I'm a "little" confused... .



Marco

 

[Bob4x4]

Other than at a Bosche shop the only tester I am aware of that is proven accurate is designed to eliminate the rest of the truck. I have one but don't need it very often,most are cut and dry.



Bob

 

[BPINE]

Like Bob said above, it is a Cummins Test box that plugs into the VP and has a test button to increase the RPM so you can eliminate the ECM. Most of the time it is helpfull with dead trucks that you suspect the ECM is bad. If the truck runs bad with the tester hooked up the the VP is bad if it runs good then the ECM is bad. I suspect it is the VP and you are talking to the right guy to get a new one (Piers).

 

[gtobey]

VP44 tester

Sorry, John, I missed that you already had gauges. What pressures were you reading on the fuel supply side?



We have one of the pump testers here at our shop. Works good. You simply unplug the connector to the pump, and plug on the test box connector. If the pump will idle fine and rev up to governed limit fine, then the pump is OK. If not, then it is a pump problem. Cummins makes it...

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

ECM Catcher "101 primer"

CaTCHER 101 primer?????????????????? I'm a "little" confused... .



Marco

Marco, I was referring to a couple of message threads that are running in this forum which are concerned with your "MAD" ECM and just wanted to know if there was an "edited highlights" version , as both these message threads are verrrrrrrrry long.

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

VP44 tester



Thanks GT! Like I said earlier in this thread, later this morning, I'm off to my local Cummins workshop about 30 miles away to validate the DTC error code and hopefully remove both the ECM and wiring loom connecting it to the VP44 from suspicion.



Fuel pressures have always been pretty reliable, around 5psi with just the ignition on, about 12psi with the engine running and nearer 16psi WOT. I have always religiously changed my fuel filter at 10,000 mile intervals, kept an eye on my gauges and regularly added some Wynns Diesel injector cleaner/ fuel additive (325ml size) to my fuel tank on a monthly basis. I believe this regime speaks for itself and the VP44 has developed a fault in spite of this not because of this



JMc

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Cummins technical question?



Blair, I'd like to take you up on your offer of the VP44 tester (loan). After my trip to the local Cummins dealer yesterday morning in Wellingborough and we checked over the ECM, VP44 and wiring between them and found nothing obviously wrong. . We cleaned out the P1689 code from the onboard memory and the MIL light on the dashboard display was reset "OFF".



Next time I fired it up, I fully expected to see the MIL light "ON" again and the diagnostic code re-registered. Neither happened, but there was a significantly reduced amount of black smoke from the tailpipe. The bottom line is that the problem as originally reported has now "gone away". For how long, I do not know, "Why?" I don't that either. Quite frankly, it has me stumped and the technician at Cummins too.



I do have one other question that I guess only someone on the TDR can answer for me now.



The 16 pin international automotive industry standard diagnostic connector (female) resides in the driver's side footwell of the cab. The Cummins guys said that the Dodge OEM application has removed their own brand diagnostic port facility, but I do not know where that would have been. He was prepared to tell me more and show me more, if he could only hook up his system, but the Cummins diagnostic tool is incompatible with the standard 16 pin item.



The question now is where did Cummins put this diagnostic port and how can I access it? Or has it been replaced totally by the 16 pin automotive item from Dodge? If that's the case, I really need to see what the inputs and outputs are on the Dodge Diagnostics socket/port, to ensure that the Cummins tool is fully compatible... .



So if anybody can point me to the right page in the service manual where these pin ins/outs/ values are listed, I'd be very grateful.



Thanks!!



JMc