Mitchells pulling clutch?

[Sled Puller]

BTW, I sent an e-mail to Peter, we worked things out,.

No more fights.

 

[Don M]

The first 100,000 miles on your truck were way under 400HP. I would hope the 5/30 would do the trick in that case. Now that you are closing in on 400HP or maybe you are there now??? I would not run such a thin oil for fear of it being squeezed out.



RPM range is not the only consideration when pulling sleds or racing. Weight of the clutch is a consideration as well. The heavier clutch will have a considerable more mass involved in the equation. If it pukes on you with that amount of weight at 4000rpm... you could be in big trouble. Most of the folks that are standing past the 100ft mark will probably be ok since the parts will fly outward and not forward



Don~

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

BTW, I sent an e-mail to Peter, we worked things out,.

No more fights.

Gene, you had an epiphany? I will remember this day for a long time.



Don~

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

My 13" Con FE puts the brakes to my 4XXhp with ease.



Sprung hubs ARE easier on the transmission.



The shock to the transmission on takeoff w/near 30k GCVW is tremendous. Do what you like and say what you will but ulsee I go shiftless I'll be runnin SBCs for a long time. . at over 500hp!!!!

 

[Excessive Force]

KABLOOEY!

No,it wasn't on a street diesel,it was on a "hot stock" ferd. Just keep in mind that "YOU CAN NEVER SAY YOU'VE SEEN IT ALL". I'm just thinking about the future of the sport that's all.

 

[Sled Puller]

Ha! Fords are weak steel!



No, you are right, after they get a taste of some real power, I believe you will see that in the safety rules next year.

They will be open for changes this winter.



Mark,

Just thinking about something here.

When you start letting the clutch out on a sprung hub hooked to a sled, what are the springs doing?





Don, it was easy, as Peter is a good guy.



I doubt I am much over 400. I would not worry about it if I was 800,(??) as that is where synthetics shine-extreme conditions.

 

[Don M]

I agree that the synthetics shine in some cases, but it makes little difference if they shine or not, if too thin. Any thinner oil, no matter how well it is formulated will squeeze out faster than a thicker one will. It is just simple physics.



As the rod is pushed down from the piston it puts a ton of force on the upper rod bearing. This thin oil is squeezed out faster and causes the following damage in the pictures here. High timing will do this as well.





https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayimage.php?&photoid=1193&width=0













Here is the same rod with a bearing on the bottom side that does not have the same forces placed on the lubricant from squeezing or shearing. This will help illustrate the effects of thin oils in engines designed to use a thicker oil and the high timing issue for long term damage on street trucks.











https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayimage.php?&photoid=1194&width=0





Don~

 

[Sled Puller]

Now it worked!

The wear you are showing is quite minimal from what I have seen on stock engines running 15-40 petro.



Careful what you post, you may be asked to back it up, as you were on another oil thread a few days ago, and you let it go.

 

[Todd T]

having read through all the vinegar, I think Gene IS a little off base here.



first Gene, we all know you pull sleds IN THE DIRT and that is ALL you think about. have you ever tried getting those amounts of weight moving on dry pavement (smoothly) and them running scared from it for 5 hours straight? I'll bet, NO. how does that clutch of yours, up shift and down shift? I’m curious (not being smart here).



Wes pulls a 50 foot trailer on the highway. he needs a clutch that is Sprung, to keep from having to wear a Hans device like the Nascar drivers do.



you are right on one thing, without a sprung centered clutch he WILL need an HD input shaft. as well as the best u joints and gear sets known to man. to stand up to the constant pounding they would take. can you imagine that ride ??? head nodding back and forth the whole time. vibrations shuddering through the whole truck for hours on end. it would drive like a Chevy. plus he would need air ride for his seat to take up the lash.



Peter has replaced several of his older clutches due to failure including one of mine. his new 13" conversion does hold the power, and the center will not break out of it. my last truck had 469HP & 1027ftlbs @ 2300RPM's. I raced it on the STREETS, slam shifting all the way to fifth gear at wot, it held. and didn't rattle like a loose heat shield at stop signs either.



holding the power is not the only thing that needs to be looked at... Application and Drivability come to mind. (being smart here )We all know about your love affair with the Mitchell’s and are quite convinced they should be paying you, for all the plugs you give them.

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

Now it worked!

The wear you are showing is quite minimal from what I have seen on stock engines running 15-40 petro.



Careful what you post, you may be asked to back it up, as you were on another oil thread a few days ago, and you let it go.

The wear is visibly minimal, yes. Personally I would need to mic the wear. My eyes are not that good. Of course I would not re-install that bearing at all in my engine.

The pictures are to illustrate the effects of shearing or squeezing out of oil. Thicker oil is harder to shear. Just a fact.

High timing is tough on rod bearings too. Just a fact. The pictures tell the story. I did not chose to tell what type of oil was used in the test for fear of backlash.



Don~

 

[Sled Puller]

Now Todd,

I only plug them when legit questions are asked and I try to answer clearly, not "GO Mitchell"





I have towed with this clutch, (ON Pa roads-5 hours straight)Dave tows with this clutch, dozens of other guys are towing with this clutch.

There is no more vibration than with my DRE, my Centerforce, or my stocker.

It releases and engages smoother than any of those, WITH a load, on pavement.

The shifts take just a hair longer, as you do have more mass to slow down.

Todd, unless you have driven one, you really can't comment on how it would drive.

Application and driveability do come to mind- a lot.

Dave was still running his original u-joints not too long ago.



I have been both places, I am happy where I'm at. I think a lot of other guys will be happy when they get here- sooner or later they will have to.

Gene

 

[Sled Puller]

Don, you can tell what oil, because what you are showing is no wear at all, that prolly happened at original break in.



That picture should be used for bragging on the oil, whatever it is.

I would also guess it had close to stock timing.







Hey, what engine is that rod out of? It isn't out of a 5. 9 Cummins

 

[Don M]

Gene,



The picture is to show how engine oils are subjected to shearing effects and that high timing can add to the problem.

Dont get me wrong, you need that high timing at higher rpm ranges, but not on the street. Unless you drive around in 3rd gear all the time.

Since your pistons were flycut then you are running more lift to help the higher rpm band. In pulling and racing this can help.



Thinner oils shear out of the bearing and crankshaft surfaces faster than thicker oils do. Its just a fact Gene. A law of hydrodynamics no oil brand can change.



The engine had 30,000 miles on it. It was using a thinnner oil than recommended.



Don~

 

[Todd T]

I have towed with this clutch, (ON Pa roads-5 hours straight)Dave tows with this clutch, dozens of other guys are towing with this clutch.

There is no more vibration than with my DRE, my Centerforce, or my stocker.

It releases and engages smoother than any of those, WITH a load, on pavement.

The shifts take just a hair longer, as you do have more mass to slow down.

Todd, unless you have driven one, you really can't comment on how it would drive.

You’re telling me (US) that there is no more vibration with an unsprung clutch than that of a sprung clutch? Did I read that right?



Easy tiger!!! That’s a mouthful.



Your right, until I drive one ($1100-$1300) I wont be sure. But I can tell you, there IS a difference, anytime you tighten or eliminate the springs. And it can be heard as well as felt.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Gene,



Just curious... at the pulls last year I saw Dave's shafts come off and flipping around. Did he reuse the u-joints??



Peter

 

[TxDieselKid]

We all know about your love affair with the Mitchell’s and are quite convinced they should be paying you, for all the plugs you give them.

But it's ok when people do this for DD right or BillK right?



PomPomAnderw

 

[Sled Puller]

HA!

That would be under"not too long ago" Funny thing is, he was ripping the steel STRAPS off, not the u-joint itself.





Don,

What engine was that out of? You can't just show a picture and claim it illustrates your point. Why was the engine apart?Come on now.



Todd,

I will let you drive it at Muncie, fair enough? For only $500 demo fee!!

No, for Free.

You prolly said all this just soes you could drive it.

 

[Don M]

Andrew,



Hypocrisy can be used as a tool for those who know how to apply it properly.

Example would be: a 16 year old kidd driving down the hwy. in a rice rocket at 100 plus mph or an older adult in a Cummins powered Ram doing the same thing. Hypocrisy yes, but applied correctly can benefit you at times.



Don~

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Sled Puller



Don,

What engine was that out of? You can't just show a picture and claim it illustrates your point. Why was the engine apart?Come on now.



Todd,

I will let you drive it at Muncie, fair enough? For only $500 demo fee!!

No, for Free.

You prolly said all this just soes you could drive it.

Gene

I don't know what engine it is out of, but I do know Don likes to dismantle stuff just to kill a day.



And as long as you are passing out free demos, I'll see ya at Munice right? Don't worry, it's harder to steal a truck then tools but you never know!



Andrew

 

[Don M]

Gene wrote



"Don,

What engine was that out of? You can't just show a picture and claim it illustrates your point. Why was the engine apart?Come on now. "



What do you mean Gene? It clearly shows that the wear occurs on the top bearing more than the bottom bearing from shearing forces. Shearing forces from the piston being slammed down harder againts the connecting rod on the downstroke are a fact, not fiction. The pictuers are to show the shearing can occur from a thin oil even with 30,000 miles on the clock.

High timing pushes on the piston harder, this increases the shearing effect you see in the picture. What do you not get?

Although the amount of fuel your 180 pump pushes, the effect to your engine is probably minimal.



Don~