Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) modest power increase ?

[Tractorat]

Im thinking about upgrading power in a couple of weeks. I already have an EZ box. Thinking about going to new injectors.



IVe been told that I really dont need an egt gauge if I just have the DDP stage 1 injectors. But I should have one if I stack the injectors with the EZ.



I have to drive a ways (and wait around) to the place I where I would have the work done, so I dont want to have them install the injectors and gauges at the same time. And if I get the injectors done first, Im not sure when Ill have time to go back for the gauges.



In the meantime, I'm thinking about having the injectors in stalled, and remove the EZ for the time being. So, here is my question. If I do just that, will I have improved torque and power with just the stage one injectors over just the EZ, or would it be a wash (or even go backwards ?)



I'm really looking for an answer to my question, not "get the gauges first", or "do it all at once".



Thanks for your help

TRat

 

[DIESELWRKS]

IMO you should get the gauges the same time. or buy them and install yourself. a good shop should be able to do all of that in less than a full days work.

you really need a fuel pressure gauge with your truck to know if you have a bad lift pump and to monitor the pump so you dont kill your vp.

injectors or ez pending what your doing or towing you could get hot. hotter with the both together. but you wont actually know the true degree of how hot YOUR truck will get without gauges.

 

[Tractorat]

Yeh, I know I should get them done at the same time. The problem is that the shop I want to do the work is a good hour and a half drive for me (one way) and I would have to wait around. I just dont have that much time right now.

I have a trans temp gauge. Im going to be adding a FP gauge and the EGT gauge.

 

[HBarlow]

With my first Dodge-Cummins, an '01 HO six speed, Joe Donnelly installed a set of Bosch RV 275 hp injectors for me at a TDR rally when it was new. It was completely OEM stock otherwise. No magic black boxes. I drove it home from Kerrville to Lubbock and immediately had gauges installed. The truck would easily peg the pyro gauge anytime I applied full throttle. With an 8,000 lb. Airstream in tow it would hit 1600* on every grade if I left the cruise control engaged or put my foot in it.

IMO you will be making a very large and potentially fatal (to the engine) mistake if you don't install at least a pyro gauge immediately.

Also, with injectors and a magic box you will soon be here asking for a recommendation to have your 47RE slushbox rebuilt. You may as well call Bill Kondolay of DTT in BC and establish a relationship with him now. You'll be talking to him soon.

Performance costs money. There is no free lunch. Take your pick.

 

[Tractorat]

Well, the opinion of the highly regarded shop that I will have the work done, is that, with stage 1 injectors alone (no magic box), I would be OK without a pyro gauge right now. But, I also value the opinion of those with credentials on the tdr. And I ESPECIALLY like to err on the conservative side. So, I guess I'll just plan on getting the gauges first, and put of the injectors for a later time.

 

[fox]

Gauges!!!

You are already exceeding 1200!!!!

 

[firefighter_2000]

Transmission

I have to agree with the gauges then transmission. I got the upgraded 275 injectors around 220k miles. It only took until about 235-240k for the transmission to start slipping & such. I happened upon a used ATS stage 2 for an excellent price and jumped on it. I ended up with an Edge EZ and along with the 275's and the tightness of the transmission it is VERY VERY enjoyable to drive. You'll also want to increase the boost pressure some. Do some reading on exactly what extra boost does for you. It doesnt create horsepower, but helps cool the higher egts.

Craig

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

It would have been good to get gauges when the EZ went on. If you do injectors and remove the EZ you might be OK as long as you don't tow (assuming you are talking about the 50hp injectors). But even if you go unloaded you wouldn't want to go ripping up Snoqualmie Pass or Vantage Hill at more than 80-85 or so to be on the safe side, especially in warm weather.

You got a good air filter upgrade? 4" exhaust? Without those an injector upgrade is risky especially if you have the stock airbox and haven't drilled large holes in the lower half.

My '01 automatic with 4" exhaust and air filter upgrade with stock fueling tops out just over 1000F when pushed hard.

 

[DIESELWRKS]

Yeh, I know I should get them done at the same time. The problem is that the shop I want to do the work is a good hour and a half drive for me (one way) and I would have to wait around. I just dont have that much time right now.



I have a trans temp gauge. Im going to be adding a FP gauge and the EGT gauge.

I can understand the drive stuff, but I drive 3 hours to Rip Rook's shop in portland one-way. if I cannot do it myself the things he has done for me and the latest complete rebuild he did cause I got way to hot. to me the drive was worth it everytime I drove there because I trust his work and his shop... you can always just add the pyro with the injectors. that wont take much time. . the boost and fuel pressure if your mechanical and have a friend that could help these are 2 gauges that are easier for a DIY guy that isn't to complex... good luck





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[Tractorat]

I've had the EZ for about 9 years, maybe six months after I got the truck. I was told at the time that I really didnt need a pyro if the only mod I had was the EZ. (whether true or not, thats what they told me). And I think Ive read on the tdr that with only the EZ, I'm OK.



So, with about 9 years and around 85k on the truck, I'm pretty sure Ive been OK. If there was a problem with egt's, what kind of symptoms would I have ?



BTW, Im going to have them put on, rather than do it myself. I want to make sure they work, and look good.

 

[NIsaacs]

TRat, to answer your question. On a computer controlled engine you need the EZ or a "boost fooler" to add more fuel, as in larger injectors. The EZ has a boost fooler built in, so if you un-hook it and add injectors, the extra fuel will just add heat with very little power increase. The extra fuel needs more air, as in more boost, that the EZ provides. Without the EZ, the computer will not allow the boost needed for the larger injectors.



The EZ works good on it's own, however it works great with a set of mild injectors. If you want to know about gauges, just ask



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

TRat, to answer your question. On a computer controlled engine you need the EZ or a "boost fooler" to add more fuel, as in larger injectors. The EZ has a boost fooler built in, so if you un-hook it and add injectors, the extra fuel will just add heat with very little power increase. The extra fuel needs more air, as in more boost, that the EZ provides. Without the EZ, the computer will not allow the boost needed for the larger injectors.

The EZ works good on it's own, however it works great with a set of mild injectors. If you want to know about gauges, just ask

Nick

Nick,

Your post is so short and simple and does such an excellent job of explaining in brief laymen's terms the relationship between fueling, boost, and power enhancement I copied and pasted it in the Gen I forum in support of an explanation I've been struggling to provide to some guys who deeply believe the path to power increases involves modified air intake and exhaust output.

I hope you don't mind.

 

[Tractorat]

Thanks Nick

Thats very helpful and a good explanation for me. Ive decided to just finish getting the gauges first (FP and Pyro). Then, when I have more time, ge a very mild set of injectors. My TT is only about 4klbs loaded at most, so I really dont need a huge power increase. For that matter, I dont need the increase at all. Just a nice to have.



Mike

 

[JCyrbok]

I can pretty easily break 1200 on my pre turbo pyro with just an easy.



J-

 

[Tractorat]

So, Ive been using the ez on my truck since maybe mid to late 2002 (about 85k on the truck) with no noticeable power loss. Doesnt use any oil. Engine temp is always right in the center,etc. The only towing Ive done is my 3500 - 4000lb TT. When towing, I never go above 58-60, and usually around 55. Even when not towing, I always keep it no more than 65 (for mileage). If I had done some engine damage, how would it manifest itself ? What symptoms might I see ?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Tractorat for gauges I recently installed a Glowshift gauge which in one gauge head combines boost, pyro and fuel pressure. They also have boost, pyro & trans temp combo. It ended up costing less than a set of 3 gauges and wasn't too bad to install. Only dislike I have is in bright sunlight it' hard to see the needle: 3in1 Diesel Combo Gauges



If your engine doesn't use oil and doesn't have increased blowby sounds like you are OK. Basically three things can happen running excessive EGT . . . the major immediate one is it starts knocking because you melted a piston. Other symptom is cylinder head cracks, often doesn't cause an issue but later on if you ever went to do head work you'd likely need a new head. Third effect is decreased engine life, less apparent but if EGT gets pushed consistently then you'd start having more blowby and steadily increasing oil leaks.



Other less common effects of high EGT is damaged injector tips or possibly valve head snapping off. On HO and HO common rail engines (and all 2004. 5+ engines) have valve seats that can pop out . . you won't have that happen since your engine doesn't have valve seat inserts.

 

[Tractorat]

Thanks Vaughn,

I guess Ive dodge a bullet then.



Mike

 

[NIsaacs]

Harvey, if the post helps, you are welcome, and if it don't help, you are still welcome



Nick