More on tires and bouncing?

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Here is the deal. Ever since I switched to from my stock LTX M/S tires, size 245/75, to BFG AT KO's, size 265/75, my ride has suffered. At first I would get an annoying bounce at the 35-40mph range. This occured under braking and acceleration. I had the tires rebalanced twice. The second time I found a shop that used the eight lug adapter and match mounted the tires. After this the ride was smoother, but I still had the bounce. It seems to be in the front, but the steering wheel doesn't shake.

Eventually, I noticed a small leak on my left rear wheel cylinder. I replaced this and the majority of the bounce was gone. Brakes felt a lot better too. (The leak was not obvious as the dust boots were holding the majority of the leaking fluid back. ) I can't explain how this helped, but it did.

However, I still tend to feel more bounce in the 35-40 range on certain surfaces than any other speed. It is not as bad as it used to be and is more intermittent. At this point I don't know what else to do. It is still enough to bug me.

I had the drums checked. Shop says ok, but when I spin the wheels, both drums seem to rub slightly in one spot. However, the drums did this before the tire change, since the first day I bought the truck. Is a small amount of rub normal for drums?

I have checked under the truck several times and can't find anything wrong. I know it could be a slightly bent axle or drive shaft or something of that nature. However, I keep coming back to the fact that the truck was fine before the tires. Both tires and wheels were ok'ed by two different tire shops!?

I have a few main areas to consider and want opinions. Are the tires just that much rougher than the Michelins? With stock tires it was very smooth. If I switch back to LTX, should I go with 245(too small) or 265's like the 01's? Or do I keep the tires and get different wheels? I have a feeling the steel SLT wheels are marginal at best. Or is it possible with the bigger tires that my stock shocks are the problem? I have 18k on the truck and most people tell me that the stock shocks are only good for 10-15K? Lastly, in any event I am going to pull the drums again and let a different shop check them out.

Sorry if I am long winded, but this problem is starting to make me hate my truck. I have read many posts on this type of problem, but nobody ever seems to have a cure. I know I am not the only one with these type problems, and the local dealers are no help. Both dealers I talked to want pass it off as the nature of bigger AT type tires.

Thanks in advance for your input/opinion!

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99'2500 SLT QC LB 4x4
white/agate, 5spd, trailer, camper, 3. 55LSD, 241HD, cab lights, 3500 tailgate lights, mopar mud flaps, luverne SS nerfs, diamond plate rails, Weatherguard box, Banks 4inch, Isspro Boost/EGT gauges(pre), 265 BFG KO's, ... more to come

 

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Traded, One possiblity would be a slipped belt in the tire, Now and then even a new tire may have a slipped belt. Some of Michelin's off brands were worse than others. I haven's seen Michelin's name brand tires do it but it can happen.

You may ask why I did't say BFG's because they get some of there tires from Michelin's and some from Goodyear, due to there are only a few tire producers (Michelin, Goodyear, Cooper, and a coupple others I can't rember).

Any way to check yours try to get them ballanced again after 500-1000 miles + or -.
If the weights are off more than . 25 oz- . 50 oz. Then check by spinning by hand on the balancer and see if there is some vertical movement in the tire. There should be none to little or I would take them back to the tire dealer under Materal and Workmanship Warranty.

Mac

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95 Ram 2500 Auto Std Cab, Cat & Muffler Fell off, 125,000 miles.
Bombed-to-be!

 

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I would try 2 things - 1) Try all 4 tires at max pressure and then 75% of max to see if tire pressure helps/hurts. 2) Shocks can cause this if the rebound is damping is shot. If your shocks are adjustable crank em up and see what happens. If your shocks have more than 30K miles on them I would replace them. You can't tell if shocks are bad by bouncing up and down on the truck. This can be a real tough problem. A resonant vibration/bounce is happening at the speed you mention. The trick is to change something that will modify/move one componant of the mechanical systems that contribute to the resonance or dampen the resonance completly.

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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

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Try this crawl under the back of your truck look at the rear springs,if they have a lower overload spring with the round rubber bumpers jack the truck up enough so you can remove the rubber bumpers. 50% of the bounce will go away. My 97 road like a dream compared to this 2000. Both had same part number front springs but they made a major change in the rear. Mine actualy got worse with a light load,removing the rubber bumpers solved that problem. Next step fill box with gravel and loosen the rear springs up. It took a whole box full just to level it out. I think the rear spring rate was over done.

 

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Have you ruled out the possibility of a misaligned front end? I found out the hard way that this can cause strange stuff to happen to our trucks. When I had my coil spacers installed, it threw the alignment off. Cruising down I-95 that night, I hit a bump and thought the whole truck was coming apart. I've never felt such a violent shake in a car in my life. Scared the bejesus out of me. The next day, I tried to duplicate the problem, and found that it would only happen at 70+ MPH and only on certain bumps in the road. I took the truck back to the 4x4 shop that did the install for a checkup, and the first thing they asked was "Have you had it aligned yet?" Turns out that was all that was causing it. I would have never thought a simple alignment could do that.

 

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You might want to make sure that the tires are round. Sometimes new tires are not always round. I have seen many tires out of round and BFG's are some of the worst.

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99 Quad Cab, White, SLT, 4x4, 5-sp, 3:54's, LSD, Loaded except cab lights and leather, Raven cap (cab high), Rhino liner, Stainless Nerf Bars, Stainless Rocker Panels, Tow package, Pro-flap mud flaps with Stainless Cummins "C" add to rear flaps, Power Edge (my first BOMB), Valentine One, Amsoil throughout, Uniden PC78LTW CB Radio with Mike Brolin's CB mounting bracket for STICKS.

Things to come;

Hadley Bully Air Horns, 285/75R16 Cooper A/T's, SPA Pyro and Boost gauge, 4" exhaust system, DDIII's, Psychotty Air Filter.

NRA Life Member! (Need to protect our rights and FREEDOM!!)

 

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No offense, but you just swapped a Corvette for a Chevette!!

Although I never used the KO's, the A/T's were the WORST tire I have ever used on a truck. . (The Cummins will never see these tires!) When new, balancing required what seemed like 10lbs of weight on each tire. Unfortunately this was short lived. This is the only tire I ever had re-balanced 3 or was it 4 times.
They sucked bad in rain!!!! Useless on ice, not that great in snow. . and OH... Did I mention they were horrible in rain??? Both in driving and in braking.
Oddly enough, as you are finding out, they ride terrible, considering their load rating is lower than the stockers. . Kind of odd... Guess they beef up the sidewalls for those rock crawling guys.

Anyway, about the only thing good I can say about em. . is that they are readily available, and they are very durable & able in off-road situations. It reminds me of that line:
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Do yourself a favor... stick with Michelins... They are more expensive, but you'll get what you pay for. .

Course, thats only my opinion.

As far as the shocks... Yes the stockers wear out quickly. My 98. 5 only has 21k, and they are shot! But I'm waiting till winter to replace em. . Good winter project.

As for the dealer comments. . To some degree they are right. . A/T type tires are a compromise. .

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA driving lights, AMSOIL oil filter relocation system,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs,Rhino Liner,K&N air filter. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.

 

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Michelins are great? must be why my 2000 threw 2 belts the first time I towed a trailer. 1100 miles and we had the rearend doin da dance. I was in indy and not one tire warehouse had 265 ltx ms load range e tires in stock. November 1999. The only tire they had that was close in size and weight rating was a 285 bfg ko. Less than 100lbs differance. Both sets needed about the same balance weight the bfg s ride a lot better. Have you ever tried to get Michelin to admit to a tire problem? GOOD LUCK. Dealer will not do anything till they talk to someone to make sure they don't get stuck with the bill. This dealer didn,t even want these tires. 9000 miles and I couldnt be happier with BFG,plus there is no UGLIER tire than an ATX on the market. Every Michelin I have ever owned has thrown a belt or developed cracks in the sidewall,they call this normal,or to high of speed for the load, or you didnt take care of the sidewall,or the best you ran over something,LOL it is an offroad tire ain't it I say junk tires for heavy loads. Maybe its just me. I will admit to having a bad set of BFG all terrains 10 years ago,but they stood behind them. Michelin always tries to lay it on the dealers. Ain,t right but thats the way it was.

 

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6bbl,
I'll agree with that one. I specifically paid more for the Michelins when I ordered my truck thinking that they made a quality tire, boy was I ever wrong. At 18,000 miles I had a sidewall melt away from the inside, nobody would warranty it and tried saying I ran something over. After discovering the price of a Michelin replacement I decided that I would rather replace all four with BFG AT's than buy another Michelin. I ran them on my Jeeps for a couple of years and they're great on highway and in the sand/snow. Awful in the mud but that's what mud tires are for. With 15,000 miles I can tell the tread isn't going to last long beyond 25,000.
I'm considering the Rickson 19. 5" setup nextime. The only question I have is with the reduced sidewall flex, does this mean that on high speed cornering the tires will lose traction sooner than with the 16" setup?

 

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Originally posted by jbogan:
I'm considering the Rickson 19. 5" setup nextime. The only question I have is with the reduced sidewall flex, does this mean that on high speed cornering the tires will lose traction sooner than with the 16" setup?

I put the 19. 5s with Yoko TY303s on my truck. I've found that the truck handles better in general, and has no problem cornering. For some odd reason, the Yokos are extremely good on wet pavement, in my experience.

As to the bouncing problem, which sounds more like a vibration problem: the tires may not have been 'matched' to the wheels. When I bought my 19. 5s, Matt and Dan used their Hunter 9700 to match the high spots of the tires to the low spots of the wheels, thus eliminating all nasty bounce. Over time (actually over chuckholes and other obstructions), and due to a single brake stand, the tires 'slipped' on the wheels, thus upsetting the matching. I had a *very* nasty vibration at several different speeds.
Dan matched them back up yesterday, and the vibration is, once again, almost unnoticeable.

If you have a seemingly uncurable vibration problem with tires, find a dealer who has a Hunter 9700 'OEM Matching' balancer (or equivalent). Odds are rather good that you will end up with vibration-free tires.

Fest3er

 

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Just another opinion. .
I won't have anything but Michelin's on my truck. I have 147,000 miles on my mine with no problems whatsoever and still have 4/32's tread left. I have very little weights on the wheels to balance them and have never had to rebalance the tires or align the front end. I have often overloaded the weight rating of the tires and never had any problems. My best was 16860 lbs gross on the truck and carried 12000 lbs of that on the rear duals.
Different people have different experiences

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1997 3500 club cab, 10' flatbed, auto, 3:54,dual Firestone air bags, 224,000 miles+

 

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This thread is another great example of why individual experiences are often too narrow to support generalizations.

I too have run Michelins several times and have never had a failure or a problem a single one. I have had miserable experiences with Goodyear, while others have had good experiences with them.

One of the great things about this forum is that we can pool experiences and sometimes come up with valid general conclusions.

Vaughn

 

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Michelin may make the best tires in the world but trying to get them replaced when you have a problem is like pulling teeth. I think the LTX MS is a bad tire. A little customer service goes a long way. Sidewall problems have killed 3 sets for me. Never have had Goodyear A/T so I don't know about them.

 

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I have had vehicles that are real sensitive to the torque of the lug nuts. When not torqued properly they deformed the wheels and cause a wobble in the rim. Don't know if this will help with the bounce or not. You might want to just double check your lug nuts.

I have had really good luck with Cooper A/T. They have a 50,000 mile treadwear warranty. I run them year round. Very smooth.

[This message has been edited by BIG BOB (edited 08-03-2000). ]

 

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Merryman,
Your absolutely right, Funny how my experiences make me believe one Manu'f produces are superior, while others feel the complete opposite.

6bbl,
Luckily for me, I've never had a problem with a Michelin tire... so I cannot share your feelings about their customer service.
BUT, I will say, I would feel exactly as you do. . if I had experienced what you have.

By the same token, my experiences with BFG products have not been great. . So I cannot share your joy. Hey... I see a bunch of guys running em, so I guess they can't be that bad.

I'm trying a set of Bridgestone Dueler A/T's.
So we'll see how these work. I've always had good luck with Goodyear as well, but they never wore well.


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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA driving lights, AMSOIL oil filter relocation system,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs,Rhino Liner,K&N air filter. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.