hello: to all you fine CTD people who also ride motorcycles. i would encourage you to involve yourselves with you state abate chapters. here in florida our group along with forward thinking legislators finally overturned the mandatory helmet law. as for me i prefer freedom of choice and accept the potential risks associated with that choice. for those who car ABATE stands for: american bikers aimed toward education or an older version is: american brotherhood against totalitarian enactments. essentially we are a policical organization fighting for all bikers: those who ride on or off road or any brand. yes, both my wife and i ride our own harleys but bikers are bikers!!!!!! excuse the length!!!
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motorcycles and ABATE
- Thread starter brucew
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abate
yeah I hear ya. I'd like to get rid of the skid lid here in Pa. But the insurance companies have too tight a grip on the thieves uh I mean politians.
Not long ago ABATE and others tried to abolish the helmet law but we didn't have enough green backs to get the job done.
I have thought about joining the local ABATE club. Maybe I will this year if I can find out who to contact.
yeah I hear ya. I'd like to get rid of the skid lid here in Pa. But the insurance companies have too tight a grip on the thieves uh I mean politians.
Not long ago ABATE and others tried to abolish the helmet law but we didn't have enough green backs to get the job done.
I have thought about joining the local ABATE club. Maybe I will this year if I can find out who to contact.
Choice?
It's my understanding that the trade-off to changing the "Skid-Lid" law involves carrying paperwork that the rider HAS to maintain an insurace policy of $XXX to be "qualified" to ride lidless.
This paperwork is to be shown , on demand, to law enforcement personnel who can pull you over just because you're Lid-Free.
It's the same old-same old... ... .
A motorcyclist injured in an accident (usually caused by an inattentive "cager") is a "drain" on the community healthcare $$, but a motorist who choses to not wear a seatbelt and eats a steering wheel in an accident is not?
This is fair????
I'm done venting now..... thanks
I choose to wear a helmet when I ride - dirt only right now but I put ~25k on my Katana 1100 in the first 1. 5 years I owned it - regardless of whether the law requires me to or not. It's a personal safety issue IMO. I also wear an Aerostitch suit when on the street.
I'm just curious what your reasons are for not wearing a helmet besides 'I don't like being told what to do'.
Brian
I'm just curious what your reasons are for not wearing a helmet besides 'I don't like being told what to do'.
Brian
I've been riding on the street since the early 60's (first street bike was a Honda 305 Super Hawk). Even with almost 40 years' experience, I wouldn't consider for a minute going out on the street to mix it up with the 4-wheelers without a helmet. I also am just curious why anyone would choose to take such a tremendous risk.
Rusty
helmets
OK another can of worms starting here.
Well you asked so here goes.
I have been riding motorcycles since 1956. All my riding has been on street bikes, mostly Harleys, but I had one Honda and one Triumph in there. When I started riding there were no helmet laws and there wasn't any special motorcycle license.
Now I understand times change and alas we must change with them and I have. However, let me point out that:
1. The main reason law makers instituted helmet laws is because of insurance, and thats because the insurance people pay them to do so.
2. There was an independant study done (I am unable to quote the name of the medium, I read it ten years ago) that showed that most catastropic MC accidents caused fatal injuries or serious injuries to the entire body which were not protected by the helmet.
3. At one time the Federal lawmakers being pushed by the insurance companies wanted to push through a law to make mc manufacturers have leg guards on every motorcycle, because leg injuries were/are prevalent.
4. If you want to talk about danger, you better think twice about riding a mc anytime because being on two wheeels in inherently dangerous for a meriad of reasons.
5. I enjoy riding without a helmet. Having travelled to the midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Ill, etc. I found that it was exhilarating without the helmet, and I didn't get fatigued in the neck and shoulder area. I also felt that my peripheral vision was better.
Just my choice. Just my humble opion.
OK another can of worms starting here.
Well you asked so here goes.
I have been riding motorcycles since 1956. All my riding has been on street bikes, mostly Harleys, but I had one Honda and one Triumph in there. When I started riding there were no helmet laws and there wasn't any special motorcycle license.
Now I understand times change and alas we must change with them and I have. However, let me point out that:
1. The main reason law makers instituted helmet laws is because of insurance, and thats because the insurance people pay them to do so.
2. There was an independant study done (I am unable to quote the name of the medium, I read it ten years ago) that showed that most catastropic MC accidents caused fatal injuries or serious injuries to the entire body which were not protected by the helmet.
3. At one time the Federal lawmakers being pushed by the insurance companies wanted to push through a law to make mc manufacturers have leg guards on every motorcycle, because leg injuries were/are prevalent.
4. If you want to talk about danger, you better think twice about riding a mc anytime because being on two wheeels in inherently dangerous for a meriad of reasons.
5. I enjoy riding without a helmet. Having travelled to the midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Ill, etc. I found that it was exhilarating without the helmet, and I didn't get fatigued in the neck and shoulder area. I also felt that my peripheral vision was better.
Just my choice. Just my humble opion.
Re: helmets
Personally, I'm conflicted on this one. I don't like other people telling me what to do but on the other hand IMHO it's pretty foolish to ride w/o proper protective gear - helmet, gloves, leathers/riding suit, boots, etc. I know, I know - the whole slippery slope/give an inch they take a mile arguement. Like I said, I'm conflicted.
It's funny that you think it's less fatiguing to wear a helmet - I found the exact opposite to be true. A proper fitting helmet, at least for me, improves my riding experience. Folks that ride w/o a helmet & goggles must be a lot tougher than me because I don't understand how you can continue riding after getting smacked in the face by a bee. That darn bee hit my helmet hard enough to move my big helmeted head.....
It should be interesting to read more replies.
Brian
Originally posted by Cobra
5. I enjoy riding without a helmet. Having travelled to the midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Ill, etc. I found that it was exhilarating without the helmet, and I didn't get fatigued in the neck and shoulder area. I also felt that my peripheral vision was better.
Just my choice. Just my humble opion.
Personally, I'm conflicted on this one. I don't like other people telling me what to do but on the other hand IMHO it's pretty foolish to ride w/o proper protective gear - helmet, gloves, leathers/riding suit, boots, etc. I know, I know - the whole slippery slope/give an inch they take a mile arguement. Like I said, I'm conflicted.
It's funny that you think it's less fatiguing to wear a helmet - I found the exact opposite to be true. A proper fitting helmet, at least for me, improves my riding experience. Folks that ride w/o a helmet & goggles must be a lot tougher than me because I don't understand how you can continue riding after getting smacked in the face by a bee. That darn bee hit my helmet hard enough to move my big helmeted head.....
It should be interesting to read more replies.
Brian
My $.02
I have been riding for the last 16 years. I however do not ride on the street... unless I decide to race some Super TT run what ya brung knobby class.
I have to say that if I did not wear a helmet I would not be here typing on the puter. I remember one instance where I was following a buddy at over 40 MPH through a set of whoops and I had a grip come off in my hand (safety wire is a good thing). The resulting get off wasted my helmet... . and probably my head if I was not wearing it. I was sore for the next month.
You don't want to wear a Helmet... be my guest, but you are a freaking idiot if you don't. I really hope you do not ride ATV's... . our sport gets bad publicity from people like you... and the ECO Freaks would love to close another riding area.
-Cliff
I have been riding for the last 16 years. I however do not ride on the street... unless I decide to race some Super TT run what ya brung knobby class.
I have to say that if I did not wear a helmet I would not be here typing on the puter. I remember one instance where I was following a buddy at over 40 MPH through a set of whoops and I had a grip come off in my hand (safety wire is a good thing). The resulting get off wasted my helmet... . and probably my head if I was not wearing it. I was sore for the next month.
You don't want to wear a Helmet... be my guest, but you are a freaking idiot if you don't. I really hope you do not ride ATV's... . our sport gets bad publicity from people like you... and the ECO Freaks would love to close another riding area.
-Cliff
Re: Re: helmets
try this one... . Had my helmet and goggles on, but this was an old open face helmet.
5th gear at WOT on my old KDX 400 (over 90 MPH) Gotta love the open desert.
got smacked by a bumble bee in the end of my nose
the stinger stuck in my nose..... had to stop and pull it out... THAT HURT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
try this one... . Had my helmet and goggles on, but this was an old open face helmet.
5th gear at WOT on my old KDX 400 (over 90 MPH) Gotta love the open desert.
got smacked by a bumble bee in the end of my nose
the stinger stuck in my nose..... had to stop and pull it out... THAT HURT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Diesel Freak - those that learn to ride in the dirt where helmets because it will hurt WHEN I crash (or get hit by a branch), those that learn to ride on the street think it will only hurt IF they crash. Yes, I know it's a gross generalization but there's bit of truth to it... .
Dan - Unfortunately for us it's not usually our fault (M/C riders) when we get injured on the street. Note I said usually, every time I've ridden Angeles Crest Hwy I've seen an ambulance or helicopter pulling Ricky Racer off the mountain. You are 100% correct - it's absolutely about money. If you want to kill yourself go right ahead by whatever means you see fit. Just don't fail. I feel pretty confident in saying that seatbelts and helmets have saved many more lives than they taken. Somebody will throw out that airbags have killed small women & children - yes, they have as they been developed. I'm sure parachutes didn't work perfectly the first time. Personally, I think the risk of not wearing proper equipment is too great. Most other people (voters/insurance co's/legislators) do to & that's why we have helmet/seatbelt laws on our public roads. The roads are paid for by public dollars and therefore the public/majority dictates the rules of use. If groups like ABATE can convince people that these laws are not necessary then go for it. I for one will continue to wear a helmet or seatbelt every time I get on a bike or in a car.
Brian
Dan - Unfortunately for us it's not usually our fault (M/C riders) when we get injured on the street. Note I said usually, every time I've ridden Angeles Crest Hwy I've seen an ambulance or helicopter pulling Ricky Racer off the mountain. You are 100% correct - it's absolutely about money. If you want to kill yourself go right ahead by whatever means you see fit. Just don't fail. I feel pretty confident in saying that seatbelts and helmets have saved many more lives than they taken. Somebody will throw out that airbags have killed small women & children - yes, they have as they been developed. I'm sure parachutes didn't work perfectly the first time. Personally, I think the risk of not wearing proper equipment is too great. Most other people (voters/insurance co's/legislators) do to & that's why we have helmet/seatbelt laws on our public roads. The roads are paid for by public dollars and therefore the public/majority dictates the rules of use. If groups like ABATE can convince people that these laws are not necessary then go for it. I for one will continue to wear a helmet or seatbelt every time I get on a bike or in a car.
Brian
NVR FNSH,
I ride a full dress Harley. The wind really doesn't hit me in the face much. In fact riding across I-70 from Pa. to Colorado I need the air that I was getting just to be comfortable.
Understand this, I do believe in safety. In Pa we must wear a lid so I wear a full face SIMPSON carbon fiber which costs alot of money. I like the best if I'm going to do it. I also wear leathers and gauntlets and hightop boots.
Oh yeah, one thing that upsets me is to see these youngsters riding with shorts, t-shirts, and sneakers. No law against that but, take a spill of any kind and that guy is going to hurt.
I ride a full dress Harley. The wind really doesn't hit me in the face much. In fact riding across I-70 from Pa. to Colorado I need the air that I was getting just to be comfortable.
Understand this, I do believe in safety. In Pa we must wear a lid so I wear a full face SIMPSON carbon fiber which costs alot of money. I like the best if I'm going to do it. I also wear leathers and gauntlets and hightop boots.
Oh yeah, one thing that upsets me is to see these youngsters riding with shorts, t-shirts, and sneakers. No law against that but, take a spill of any kind and that guy is going to hurt.
helmets and motorcycles
shovelhead: what you said is fairly accurate. however, i am fortunate to be the vp of the second laragest abate chapter in florida. i can personally tell you not one member has complained about being pulled over for insurance check. also the law requires 10k but that can be a work related insurance policy. at anyrate the issue for our organization is freedom of choice. i must complement gov. jeb. he was a man of his word. also my view is if you ride helmet free be prepared to accept the responsibility that goes with it!!!!!!!! cobra: lived in central pa. most of my life(about 50 miles east of williamsport). i know for a fact there are active chapters in the keystone state. appreciate your words of support. ride safe and if my twincam breaks down(which it has three times in about 1 year) i surely have the vehicle necessary to haul the sucker to my local stealer. darn sensors and electronics you know. my wife has a evo and no problems since new in '96. nuff said!!!! thanks for allowing me the soapbox!!!!!
shovelhead: what you said is fairly accurate. however, i am fortunate to be the vp of the second laragest abate chapter in florida. i can personally tell you not one member has complained about being pulled over for insurance check. also the law requires 10k but that can be a work related insurance policy. at anyrate the issue for our organization is freedom of choice. i must complement gov. jeb. he was a man of his word. also my view is if you ride helmet free be prepared to accept the responsibility that goes with it!!!!!!!! cobra: lived in central pa. most of my life(about 50 miles east of williamsport). i know for a fact there are active chapters in the keystone state. appreciate your words of support. ride safe and if my twincam breaks down(which it has three times in about 1 year) i surely have the vehicle necessary to haul the sucker to my local stealer. darn sensors and electronics you know. my wife has a evo and no problems since new in '96. nuff said!!!! thanks for allowing me the soapbox!!!!!
Back to what Briar said
yes you're safer with a helmet, but what price liberty?
How about child carseats?
So a mother is prohibited from breast feeding her baby while riding in a car, or holding or snuggling or whatever.
Again, What price Freedom?
Jay
yes you're safer with a helmet, but what price liberty?
How about child carseats?
So a mother is prohibited from breast feeding her baby while riding in a car, or holding or snuggling or whatever.
Again, What price Freedom?
Jay
I will throw my . 02 cents worth in. I have been riding for 30 years and have 140,000 miles on motorcycles and 11,000 miles on bicycles. So I have been there on crotch rockets, sport-tourers and cruisers.
My to favorite expessions to this topic are: From the old Bell helmet ad. "If you have a $10 dollar head wear a $10 dollar helmet"
And there are two types of motorcyclist, Those that have crashed and those that are gunna.
I have had my only crash at 138k miles, destroyed the bike, mostly roadrash to me. I had two crashes on the on bikes which destroyed the helmets but no injuries to my head.
So I'm With Diesel Freak and NVR I don't want to be told, but I'm a firm believer in head protection and in leather. But it is your head.
Doug
My to favorite expessions to this topic are: From the old Bell helmet ad. "If you have a $10 dollar head wear a $10 dollar helmet"
And there are two types of motorcyclist, Those that have crashed and those that are gunna.
I have had my only crash at 138k miles, destroyed the bike, mostly roadrash to me. I had two crashes on the on bikes which destroyed the helmets but no injuries to my head.
So I'm With Diesel Freak and NVR I don't want to be told, but I'm a firm believer in head protection and in leather. But it is your head.
Doug
Re: Back to what Briar said
What about driving drunk? How is drunk driving any different than a helmet/seatbelt/childseat law?
My uncensored answer? If you're too stupid to put a kid in a car seat/wear protective gear/etc then maybe the voting public does need to tell you what you can and can't do. I always figured that most people are smart enough not to leave an infant in car when it's 100F outside - I was proven wrong several times this past summer. People have the freedom to be idiots up until the point it starts impacting my pursuit of life/liberty/happiness. As a vehicle operator on a public road I give up some freedom everyday to use those roads - speed limits, stop signs, turn lanes, etc. For me this is not a big 'freedom' issue - sorry.
Cobra - I agree with you about the morons riding in tank tops, shorts, flip-flops & oh, yeah don't forget the helmet. I find it a bit strange that you wear a high dollar helmet where required but will remove it when you can yet you leave your leathers & boots on. Interesting. You are correct - it's your choice so enjoy it.
Brian
What about driving drunk? How is drunk driving any different than a helmet/seatbelt/childseat law?
My uncensored answer? If you're too stupid to put a kid in a car seat/wear protective gear/etc then maybe the voting public does need to tell you what you can and can't do. I always figured that most people are smart enough not to leave an infant in car when it's 100F outside - I was proven wrong several times this past summer. People have the freedom to be idiots up until the point it starts impacting my pursuit of life/liberty/happiness. As a vehicle operator on a public road I give up some freedom everyday to use those roads - speed limits, stop signs, turn lanes, etc. For me this is not a big 'freedom' issue - sorry.
Cobra - I agree with you about the morons riding in tank tops, shorts, flip-flops & oh, yeah don't forget the helmet. I find it a bit strange that you wear a high dollar helmet where required but will remove it when you can yet you leave your leathers & boots on. Interesting. You are correct - it's your choice so enjoy it.
Brian
RESPONSIBILITY is the key!
I remember riding down a dirt lane years ago and jumping all the puddles, you know how a dirt road always needs roadgrader attention! I landed wrong, slid down the road on my face, and couldnt move or see when I came to rest. Didnt know why, just knew I couldnt see or move
When my friend quit laughing and got me out of the barbedwire fence, and got all the twigs and crap out of my fullface helmet, I was glad I had a heavy jacket and fullface helmet on! Anyway, do I now ride without a helmet sometimes? Yes.
To most people that ride, it is a feeling that cant be related to people that dont like bikes. I feel it isnt anyones business but mine if I risk my life or not. Until my actions endanger others, how I protect my own life should be up to me, stupid or not.
Though I almost always wear earplugs, go figure...
Just my opinion.
Eric
I remember riding down a dirt lane years ago and jumping all the puddles, you know how a dirt road always needs roadgrader attention! I landed wrong, slid down the road on my face, and couldnt move or see when I came to rest. Didnt know why, just knew I couldnt see or move
When my friend quit laughing and got me out of the barbedwire fence, and got all the twigs and crap out of my fullface helmet, I was glad I had a heavy jacket and fullface helmet on! Anyway, do I now ride without a helmet sometimes? Yes.
To most people that ride, it is a feeling that cant be related to people that dont like bikes. I feel it isnt anyones business but mine if I risk my life or not. Until my actions endanger others, how I protect my own life should be up to me, stupid or not.
Though I almost always wear earplugs, go figure...
Just my opinion.
Eric
NVR FNSH
So basically your a socialist then right?
So basically your a socialist then right?
Re: NVR FNSH
How many socialists do you know that went to Cal Poly?
Actually, I'm a bit of all - republican, democrat, libertarian, socialist whatever. Depends on the issue. In any society there are certain things that individuals do or don't do for the good of the entire population. For instance, we have a welfare system that is 'supposed' to be a temporary assistance to get people back on their feet. It's in all our interest to get people off the govt 'payroll' as quickly as possible by educating/training them to support themselves. Something along the lines of teaching a man to fish instead of just feeding him that day. I also believe that if I'm paying to support you I have a say in what you do & how you live. Example, I firmly believe that women on welfare should be on birth control, preferrably something like Norplant. Okay, so when a viable male contraceptive is available men should be required to take it. I know, I know - I'm rambling off topic.
Back to the issue - I believe a helmet/protective gear provides me a margin of safety that far outweighs the risk that the helmet MAY increase the extent of injury. It's not too often you read/hear from people that say NOT wearing a helmet or seat belt saved their life.....
Dan - I wonder how your friends brother would have fared if he wasn't wearing a seat belt.
Like I said earlier - I'm conflicted on this one. One side says you're an idiot if don't wear a helmet/protective gear/seat belt, the other says we don't really need more laws. ah, heck flip a coin.
Brian
How many socialists do you know that went to Cal Poly?
Actually, I'm a bit of all - republican, democrat, libertarian, socialist whatever. Depends on the issue. In any society there are certain things that individuals do or don't do for the good of the entire population. For instance, we have a welfare system that is 'supposed' to be a temporary assistance to get people back on their feet. It's in all our interest to get people off the govt 'payroll' as quickly as possible by educating/training them to support themselves. Something along the lines of teaching a man to fish instead of just feeding him that day. I also believe that if I'm paying to support you I have a say in what you do & how you live. Example, I firmly believe that women on welfare should be on birth control, preferrably something like Norplant. Okay, so when a viable male contraceptive is available men should be required to take it. I know, I know - I'm rambling off topic.
Back to the issue - I believe a helmet/protective gear provides me a margin of safety that far outweighs the risk that the helmet MAY increase the extent of injury. It's not too often you read/hear from people that say NOT wearing a helmet or seat belt saved their life.....
Dan - I wonder how your friends brother would have fared if he wasn't wearing a seat belt.
Like I said earlier - I'm conflicted on this one. One side says you're an idiot if don't wear a helmet/protective gear/seat belt, the other says we don't really need more laws. ah, heck flip a coin.
Brian
Tough Call
The old cynical me used to say let Darwin rule and laws shouldn't try to save people from themselves. But every spring when I see these kids on 100+ hp bikes with shorts, t-shirts, sneakers, and no experience, I realize that there's no way they'd be wearing a helmet if they didn't have to (in MA). Further evidenced by the fact that they shuck 'em off the second they cross the NH border. Sure, they're idiots, but so were many of us when we were young. And I'm sure most of these kids have families who love them.
As for full-grown adults who think that their head will never hit the ground at speed, let Darwin have at 'em, but it's hard to make a law that accommodates both.
The old cynical me used to say let Darwin rule and laws shouldn't try to save people from themselves. But every spring when I see these kids on 100+ hp bikes with shorts, t-shirts, sneakers, and no experience, I realize that there's no way they'd be wearing a helmet if they didn't have to (in MA). Further evidenced by the fact that they shuck 'em off the second they cross the NH border. Sure, they're idiots, but so were many of us when we were young. And I'm sure most of these kids have families who love them.
As for full-grown adults who think that their head will never hit the ground at speed, let Darwin have at 'em, but it's hard to make a law that accommodates both.
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