Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) My observations on no plate

[bluthndr]

My observations on #0 (no) plate

Took my plate out yesterday. Drove about 50 miles that way.



My experience was that:



1. Engine is much less responsive.

2. Engine starts harder

3. Feels overall less powerful unless I stand on it - then only slightly more after several seconds.

4. EGT skyrockets down the highway at WOT

5. Virtually NO change in smoke or lower speed power...

6. Max boost is the same





I'm pretty disappointed to say the least. Planning on putting the stock plate back in full forward for now. I welcome any and all suggestions for improvement. I figured it would make a huge difference (and I wanted more smoke and power) but it's worse if anything.



Comments? How is it that I get NO smoke and NO more power with NO plate???????

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Put a #10 in it and play with that, if your going to run a stock plate then put a boost elbow in it so you can get some PSI going, you've got everything else... . get a plate.



Jim

 

[bluthndr]

I put a boost elbow on when I did my AFC spring and the truck's been great up to about 2400 RPM. It WAS really responsive with up to 28 PSI until I took the stock plate out. Now it just starts hard and is really doggy. Like I said, very disappointing.



The AFC housing is just kind of "on there", so maybe I'll try sliding that forward first. Didn't realize that there was some movement available there. Then I guess I'll check for leaks in my boost line (it's a metal one) that goes to the housing, but that still doesn't explain why I have basically no smoke and midrange power, or why it now starts hard (6-10 rev before start vs 1-3 before... ).



Very frustrating.



P. S. Just saw that water injection thing on your signature. How do you like it? I was wondering when someone here would try it after seeing them on all the pulling tractors...

 

[Jim Fulmer]

P. S. Just saw that water injection thing on your signature. How do you like it? I was wondering when someone here would try it after seeing them on all the pulling tractors...



It's doing very well, I've been running water for some time now, drop the air temp allot and EGT's by 200, 50/50 Water/Meth is good for 70-100 HP depending on the setup, I made 124 in valet before but I had the bottom end valet fuel set lower.



Jim

 

[bluthndr]

Moved the AFC housing full forward:



Starts better, more responsive, but still only 15 PSI max in first 3 gears. Still no smoke either. I don't get it - I thought it was supposed to smoke like a freight train and have tons more power.



I can get just over 20 PSI in 4th uphill floored. Anyone have trouble with throttle moving all the way? I did find my TPS slightly out of adjustment and moved it accordingly, but my understanding is that it controls the trans only on a 12V...



Anyone have any other suggestions as to why my performance is all around WORSE with no plate at all!??? Is there any way to check pre-pump fuel pressure without making a bunch of stuff and permanently mounting a gauge? I thought these engine very seldom had supply problems...

 

[Got Smoke?]

Take your rack stop out if you want some smoke!



Take off the afc housing, loosen that bolt that's on the front of the afc housing (towards front of truck) now push on that "boot looking thing" until the bolt pop's loose, pull bolt out, rackstop falls out, reinstall said bolt and afc housing!

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by bluthndr

why it now starts hard (6-10 rev before start vs 1-3 before... ).

I remember reading a comment from Joe Donnelly about how the rocker comes in contact with the plate for startup.



Here is the quote:

"When starting the truck, the rocker does slide forward and tap the torque plate near the bottom, at what is called the "cold start" position. "



Without the plate you could be causing a "rich" cold start causing a few more cranks.

 

[98rammer]

Re: My observations on #0 (no) plate

Originally posted by bluthndr

Took my plate out yesterday. Drove about 50 miles that way.



My experience was that:



1. Engine is much less responsive.

2. Engine starts harder

3. Feels overall less powerful unless I stand on it - then only slightly more after several seconds.

4. EGT skyrockets down the highway at WOT

5. Virtually NO change in smoke or lower speed power...

6. Max boost is the same





I'm pretty disappointed to say the least. Planning on putting the stock plate back in full forward for now. I welcome any and all suggestions for improvement. I figured it would make a huge difference (and I wanted more smoke and power) but it's worse if anything.



Comments? How is it that I get NO smoke and NO more power with NO plate???????

that doesn't sound right. generally, the more fuel, the more power (when not pushing the high hp #'s for maxing power). with my stock pump, stock injectors, no gsk, #0 plate, intake and exhaust i made 257hp/641tq. it was definately a lot more than the stock plate full forward was making.



4k springs- do you also have the governor spring kit too? you can expect the EGT's to skyrocket after 2800rpms or so which happens too easy with the stock converter and a gsk.



the smoke should be more, so... is the linkage on the side of the pump getting full travel? what are you hitting for boost? does it feel like anything is binding up? do you have the AFC tightened up pretty good? the performance should be better, and there should be some more smoke.



for some reason you just aren't getting anymore fuel, and from what you're saying, the performance is going downhill...



Tom

 

[T. Baker]

I'd check that the throttle cable is moving the arm on the pump all the way.

Mine has all the fuel I ever wanted and then some more on top of that. I might reinstall a plate to tame the beast a little since my right foot is uncontrolable.

 

[Got Smoke?]

something I just thought about... ..... your not going to make much boost if your still using the stock boost fitting on the AFC. If you had a boost elbow you'd be making more.



With my OE plate full forward, 300M injectors, and boost elbow I can hit like 35-40psi.



Check your PMs.

 

[bluthndr]

Did the old zip ties on the throttle cable and that appears to have helped significantly:



Slid the AFC housing full forward, but still only around 15psi for the first 3 gears. In 4th moderately better, and when the convertor locks up I'm back at 28 PSI (keep in mind I'm using the pre-HX35 turbo here) and pulling like a jet taking off... while rapidly passing various speed limits.



Still no considerable smoke though, and seat of the pants tells me that my 1,2,3 gear power is about the same or even down some. Any ideas again?



I remember reading once that the stock torque convertor stalls too high for the torque peak of this engine, and "the stall speed on a mildly modified Cummins exceeds the rated speed of the engine. " Could this be my "problem"? I know I will eventually need a trans, but I want to save that for next spring/summer.



It does seem like the engine flashes/accelerates VERY quickly (but not trans-slip quickly) to my governor cutoff around 2200-2500 rpm. Not sure why it's "2200 - 2500 RPM" either. Sometimes the power cuts off at around 2200, other times 2500 !?



Thanks for the help.

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by bluthndr

15psi for the first 3 gears. In 4th moderately better, and when the convertor locks up I'm back at 28 PSI

The fact that it pulls almost twice the boost in lockup is an indicator to me that you are losing all your extra HP through your transmission.



As far as smoke, does it smoke much if the TC stays locked up and you stand on it?

 

[98rammer]

have you checked for boost leaks, 15 psi is definately low. hmm, with my stock power right now i can make 21-22 unlocked, and then about 15 locked. however, with the power i had making 257hp before a lot more mods, i was making 35 pounds of boost on acceleration, and could make 40psi with the converter locked 4th gear--egts were only around 1200*.



without the governor spring kit, you're not making much power on top end, especially with the 94 pump.



so on acceleration, you're typically at 2200rpms? or is you extra fuel pushing it to 2500rpms? if the truck is defueling so it's only pushing out 2200-2300rpms, that'd explain low boost possibly.



Tom