My truck is heavy...

[HBarlow]

I see Gary Owen has already addressed the issue of the combination being a passenger vehicle or commercial vehicle.

Gary knows what he is talking about and his statement is correct. The truck's owner uses the truck and trailer for a commercial purpose and the combination is therefore a commercial vehicle.

The truck, trailer, and driver are subject to all commercial vehicle rules and regulations including commercial vehicle inspection decal if one offered in SC, mounted fire extinguisher, vehicle registration and proof of commercial insurance policy carried in the cab, driver's log book UNLESS the truck and trailer operate daily within a 100 mile radius of the home terminal, stop at all scales, etc.

Mark above is also correct. The rear axle of the truck is probably (almost certainly?) overloaded and will result in an immediate out of service order and a large fine the first time you encounter a
SC DOT car or whiz past a scale.

Ken, I think you are as naive about commercial motor vehicles as you are about brake controllers. You would be wise to drive your unloaded pickup to the closest SC DOT or HP office and begin learning what you've gotten yourself into.

On edit: You are also required to have DOT numbers and the company name and DOT numbers must be displayed on the side of the truck at all times.

Second edit: In backing out of the thread with the back button I paused to look at the photos and realized that is a tongue pull trailer not a gooseneck. That is probably going to turn out to be an expensive mistake. With the way the trailer is set up and loaded so heavy forward the tongue weight probably exceeds the rated weight of the hitch and an experienced DOT officer will notice and check.

 

[kenny61]

Not true!



Federal DOT regulations do not require a CDL unless GCW or GCWR exceed 26,000 lbs. and the trailer exceeds 10,000 lbs. Recreational vehicles are exempt but some states have established and require a Class A operator license to ensure higher levels of knowledge and skill.

I dont understand what you are saying is not true so I will try to clarify on what I think you are saying is false





I believe I stated "In NY" and gave the following definitions quoted out of the NYS VTL. I also stated I think the NYS laws are the same as federal law but was not 100% sure. I assure you that if KLAUBER operated the setup he posted in NY it would be illegal unless it fell under the farm exclusion. Based on the use he provided it was not detailed enough for me to give an opinion

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" shall mean a motor vehicle or

combination of vehicles having a gross combination weight rating of more

than ten thousand pounds used in commerce to transport property and it

shall include a tow truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of at least

eighty-six hundred pounds.

2. "Gross vehicle weight rating" or "GVWR" shall mean the weight of a

vehicle consisting of the unladen weight and the maximum carrying

capacity recommended by the manufacturer of such vehicle. The GVWR of a

combination of vehicles commonly referred to as the gross combination

weight rating or GCWR is the GVWR of the power unit plus the GVWR of

each vehicle in the combination.

3. "Commercial driver" shall mean every person who is self-employed or

employed by a commercial motor carrier and who drives a commercial motor

vehicle for hire or profit.

4. "Commercial motor carrier" shall mean any person, corporation, or

entity, who directs one or more commercial motor vehicles and who

operates a commercial motor vehicle wholly within or partly within and

partly without this state in connection with the operation or

administration of any business.

I also listed other sections that offered the exclusuions for personal and farm use.

 

[kenny61]

On edit: You are also required to have DOT numbers and the company name and DOT numbers must be displayed on the side of the truck at all times.

Not neccesarily

Q: What do motor carriers need to put on the sides

of their trucks?

A: A motor carrier displays two things on both sides of

each power unit: (1) the carrier’s legal name or a single

trade name of the business that owns or controls

operations, and (2) the carrier’s U. S. DOT number.

Exceptions: The requirements don’t apply to vehicles 26,000 lbs. or less

(gross combination weight rating) if used only in intrastate private

carriage, except vehicles hauling hazardous materials of a type or

quantity requiring placarding, or passenger vehicles with a seating

capacity of 15 or more including the driver. Carriers conducting for-hire

operations with passenger vehicles with a seating capacity of 9 to 15,

including driver, are only required to display the U. S. DOT number

 

[kenny61]

Good thing I'm in SC and not NY! "Any truck with an empty weight of 9,000 lbs or less and a GVW of 11,000 lbs or less can be classified as a passenger vehicle and display any license plate that a passenger vehicle can display. " The truck empty and not attached to the trailer is 7850 lbs. With the trailer its 19580. The tank is portable and less than 1000 gallons. The cargo is exempt from hazmat regs (petroleum exemption). Am wondering how much extra a long bed dually would weigh... . 1000 pounds? Even so, I'm still below all SC thresholds for commercial ratings even though I have a commercial insurance policy on it! And this truck-trailer is only used in SC! No crossing state lines anymore for this old trucker... .



Ken

Don't confuse NY Commercial with Other state Commercial. It is more of a classifacation than anything else it does not require a cdl or any other com veh requirements. I think it was done this way years ago to keep larger vehicles of of NY's parkways which were designed for slow scenic traffic.

New York State Department of Motor Vehicles

INFORMATION FOR PICK-UP TRUCK OWNERS

 Choice of Registering as Passenger or Commercial

Pick-up trucks with an unladen weight of 5,500 pounds or less, that are used as a personal vehicle, may be

registered in either the commercial or passenger class. In either case, you will pay a commercial registration fee,

along with any commercial use tax applicable for your county (form MV-202C).

 Modified Pick-Up

If the pick-up truck, of any weight, has been modified (that is, the truck bed is completely and permanently

enclosed by a camper top, and has seats, seat fittings or camping equipment mounted in the truck bed), it must be

registered in the passenger class. You must pay a passenger fee, along with any passenger use tax applicable for

your county (form MV-202).

 Pick-Up Not Modified

If the pick-up truck weighs more than 5,500 pounds and has not been modified, it must be registered

in the commercial class. You must pay a commercial fee.

 Driving on Restricted-Use Roads

Registering in the passenger class allows you to drive the truck on roads and parkways in New York State that

are restricted to non-commercial traffic only. In the past, most pick-up trucks had to be registered in the

commercial class, meaning they could not be driven on these restricted-use roads.

 Is This Change Right For You?

Registering in the passenger class may not be appropriate for all pick-up truck owners. There are numerous

parking restrictions in New York City with respect to passenger and commercial vehicles and plates. Any

pick-up truck owner who often drives and parks in NYC should carefully consider whether or not registering in

the passenger class will be helpful.

 Cost to Make the Change

If you decide to change the registration to the passenger class the fee is $18. 75. You must turn in your

commercial plates, and affirm on the registration application that the pick-up truck weighs 5,500 pounds or less

and does not have advertising anywhere on the truck. The truck may be covered by a tarp or cap.

If you are registering the truck for the first time, or are renewing your registration, you will pay $15. 00 for

passenger plates, in addition to the regular registration fee.

 Custom Plates

In most cases, if the truck has commercial personalized custom plates, you can order the same custom plate in

the passenger series. It will take about three weeks before you receive your personalized plates (and others made

to order). Until then, you will keep your current commercial custom plates, but you will not be able to drive on

the parkways until the new plates arrive. You will pay $1. 00 for a change of class transaction, plus the plate fee

appropriate for your custom plate.

MV-114 (9/09)

New York State Department of Motor Vehicles - NYS DMV - NYSDMV - Driver - Vehicle

 

[JayStraight]

More truck would be appreciated! Until that happens, I added SuperSprings to level out the ride. Its amazing how smooth a ride it is now, I thought it would be harsher, but the extra leaves in combo with the roller makes it very comfortable when unloaded.



Ken

I'm glad to hear the Supersprings are working out for you, I wouldn't want you to be mad at the salesman/installer... :-laf

Keep in touch!

 

[KLauber]

Good points all!

This is why TDR is so valuable so everyone can add to the knowledge base, which is why I started this thread in the first place. I already took this by DMV last month and they said it was not a commercial vehicle (it was unloaded). A SC Transport cop stopped to check me out and thought it was a cool setup. Since I added the SuperSpring, it rides level and smooth, but it definitely will be changed to a gooseneck trailer in the future. Also a dually once I get a business loan (banks still aint lending squat). The brake controller is still working safe and effective, I guess its magic Harvey. Your right about the tongue weight, its probably over which is why I added the spring and it needs a gooseneck for future use. The generator is way over spec'd. I could probably use one half as powerful and lighter also.



Harvey, I spent 10 years as over the road trucker and hit all 48 states before you had your first Dodge diesel. I received the May 1986 Safe Driver of the Month from the largest Owner Operator fleet in the country (at the time), Wheaton Van Lines. But yours and Gary's and Kenny's comments are well received and appreciated.



Cheers,

Ken

 

[kenny61]

Ahhh Shucks Ken, I only posted the info so I wouldn't have to watch a grown man cry :{ when I had your rig impounded :-laf

 

[Mark31]

Ken, call Rick Connor at McElrath Trailers (mcelrathtrailers.com) in Spartanburg. He is off of I85 on 221 toward Chesnee. Mark

 

[KLauber]

Thanks!

Ahhh Shucks Ken, I only posted the info so I wouldn't have to watch a grown man cry :{ when I had your rig impounded :-laf

You couldn't pay me enough money to drive my 'rig' to NY much less across the SC border in any direction! Thanks for the info all, it does help!



Ken

 

[KLauber]

Excellent!

Ken, call Rick Connor at McElrath Trailers (mcelrathtrailers.com) in Spartanburg. He is off of I85 on 221 toward Chesnee. Mark

Thanks Mark! Maybe we can meet up and compare controllers so I can verify that my Prodigy is as effective as it appears to be.



Cheers,

Ken

 

[KLauber]

I'm glad to hear the Supersprings are working out for you, I wouldn't want you to be mad at the salesman/installer... :-laf

Keep in touch!

Its exactly what I needed and came with the TDR member discount. Jay, put your company info on your signature at least!



Cheers,

Ken

 

[KLauber]

Down in the Pee Dee....

I don't know about your end of the state, but down here in the Pee Dee area we have some DOT people that would give you a Maalox moment. Regardless of tag, license, springs, tires, etc, if you have as much weight on your rear axle (tires) when loaded as I'm guessing you have, the boys in black will get out their Bics if they spy you. Mark

By the time I get a site down there, I'm hoping I'll have that dually and the gooseneck!



Ken

 

[KLauber]

Safety!

first time you panic stop on a wet road , we could probaly sell tickets,bet it will be a fun ride.

Aint happening if I can help it. I drive like a grandmother in this rig. Will says why are you going so slow? I say, cause the rig weighs 12 tons, not 4!! The cool brake controller helps on the power stops too.



Ken

 

[Mark31]

Ken, I've over a buncha years had a couple of old hydraulic controllers, some Voyagers, a Prodigy, and a P3. The old hydraulic ones were always the same, the P3 is fair, this Prodigy left much to be desired, especially predictabilty. I even had one Voyager that was more "relaxing" to drive with than this Prodigy. 99. 44% of the time Ole Harv is right. I'm drooling over a Maxbrake and with what you are trying to do, even more so in the hills (affecting the pendelum), you need to get up close and personal with one. My opinion and a buck will get you a value burger, but trust Harvey on this one. Mark

 

[KLauber]

Harvey helps even though he's a curmudgeon about it! He PM'd me some helpful travel tips which were right on the nail head. When I upgrade to a dually, I will definitely check out the MaxBrake since I'll leave the Prodigy on this one.

Ken

 

[HBarlow]

This is why TDR is so valuable so everyone can add to the knowledge base, which is why I started this thread in the first place. I already took this by DMV last month and they said it was not a commercial vehicle (it was unloaded). A SC Transport cop stopped to check me out and thought it was a cool setup. Since I added the SuperSpring, it rides level and smooth, but it definitely will be changed to a gooseneck trailer in the future. Also a dually once I get a business loan (banks still aint lending squat). The brake controller is still working safe and effective, I guess its magic Harvey. Your right about the tongue weight, its probably over which is why I added the spring and it needs a gooseneck for future use. The generator is way over spec'd. I could probably use one half as powerful and lighter also.

Harvey, I spent 10 years as over the road trucker and hit all 48 states before you had your first Dodge diesel. I received the May 1986 Safe Driver of the Month from the largest Owner Operator fleet in the country (at the time), Wheaton Van Lines. But yours and Gary's and Kenny's comments are well received and appreciated.

Cheers,
Ken

If you were a professional driver you must have been driving for a big company and only learned to do what you were told to do. You apparently didn't learn much about the laws governing commercial motor vehicles.

If you took that rig to a SC DMV you must have deceived whoever answered the question or asked a clerk who didn't know what he or she was looking at.

I don't care what you do. It means nothing to me if you operate that thing on the highways but for the benefit of others reading the thread it IS a commercial vehicle and the rules apply.

 

[HBarlow]

Kenny,

You appear to be trying to win an argument by posting the most (and most confusing) material but you are still wrong about the CDL.

I don't know or care a whit about NY or SC state DOT laws but I can tell you that US DOT rules, which all state DOT rules are based on and can not overrule, do not require a CDL to operate a combination vehicle with an actual or rated weight that does not exceed 26,000 lbs.

I hauled commercially for two of the most stringent RV/trailer transport companies operating in all 48 contiguous states and Canada. I have stopped at perhaps 100 scales and undergone about a dozen DOT inspections. I operated with a TX Class A operator's license for the first year and a few months and was completely legal throughout the US and Canada as long as my rated or actual weight did not exceed 26,000 lbs. When I had only the operator's license I had lots of DOT officers walk out to my truck and check my GVWR sticker and the GVWR sticker of the trailer I was hauling to ensure the two did not add up to even one pound in excess of 26k.

IF the op only operates intrastate he may not be required to display company name and DOT numbers. My commercial driving experience has been interstate only. But if he crosses a state line into NC or GA he will certainly be in violation if he doesn't display name and numbers on the truck.

 

[kenny61]

Harvey that most confusing material is an exact copy of the NYS vehicle and traffic law. I posted it so others here may read it and learn something. As far as your federal rule that all states must abide by, you are only partially right, the Fed sets minimum standards for the state, the state still issues and may make it more stringent.

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 was signed into law on October 27, 1986. The primary intent of the Act was to improve highway safety by ensuring that truck drivers and drivers of tractor trailers and buses are qualified to drive Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMVs), and to remove drivers that are unsafe and unqualified from the highways. The Act continued to give states the right to issue CDLs, but the federal government established minimum requirements that must be met when issuing a CDL. [2]

I took the time to read the confusing stuff (The Law)and find that it does contradict itself at one point. It appears that one section has you correct about the 26k however you are only partially correct because if the trailer is 10k or over u you still need the CDL.



When we get to another section (new post of more confusing law)...

Class D. Such license shall be valid to operate any passenger or

limited use automobile or any truck with a GVWR of not more than

twenty-six thousand pounds or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a

GVWR of not more than ten thousand pounds, or any such vehicle towing

another vehicle with a GVWR of more than ten thousand pounds provided

such combination of vehicles has a GCWR of not more than twenty-six

thousand pounds, or any personal use vehicle with a GVWR of not more

than twenty-six thousand pounds or any such vehicle towing a vehicle

with a GVWR of not more than ten thousand pounds, except it shall not be

valid to operate a tractor, a motorcycle other than a class B or C

limited use motorcycle, a vehicle used to transport passengers for hire

or for which a hazardous materials endorsement is required, or a vehicle

defined as a bus in subdivision one of section five hundred nine-a of

this title.

We see that this section allows for exactly what you said with a passenger vehicle license.





Which one is right? I would have to say anyone the particular officer chose to enforce. FYI I was told by a Commercial enforcement officer that he goes by the over 10k combination section.





Regarding the numbers I was just pointing out an exception because some people are not aware of it and needlessly pay the expense to number and letter their truck.



Thank you for taking the time to clear up why you thought I was wrong. As a result I have learned a few more things today. I usually don't do commercial enforcement other than obvious safety issues that could result in injury or death to others, such as improperly secured loads and faulty equipment and am now a little more knowledgeable about the subject.

 

[kenny61]

PS. .

I know for fact that numerous tow truck drivers have been charged and found guilty for not having a CDL regarding the following section...

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" shall mean a motor vehicle or
combination of vehicles having a gross combination weight rating of more
than ten thousand pounds used in commerce to transport property and it
shall include a tow truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of at least
eighty-six hundred pounds.

This has occurred in vehicles as small as a 3/4ton pick up.

 

[HBarlow]

Kenny,

You MAY be correct about NY state laws, I have no interest in that. But, I say it once again, you are dead wrong about Federal DOT law and that is what matters to interstate drivers. NY cannot view the Fed DOT law as minimum and apply their own to interstate traffic of vehicles registered in other states and with drivers licensed in other states.

If NY could make up their own DOT rules and attempt to enforce them on interstate vehicles and drivers it would be the same as having no standard laws at all. I suppose NY LEO can enforce whatever they wish on intrastate drivers who hold NY drivers licenses and are driving vehicles registered in NY state.

Once again, for the record, the driver of a combination vehicle with an actual weight or rated weight of 26,000 lbs. or less towing a trailer weighing in excess of 10,000 lbs. is not required to have a CDL under Federal DOT regulations.

NY state DOT regulations are of little to no interest to TDR members. Few of us have the misfortune to live in NY. Any TDR member who is an RVer or an interstate commercial hauler must only comply with Federal DOT regulations and the laws of his or her own state. Sure, toll rules, speed limits (except on interstate highways), and other rules such as what vehicles can use which routes are under the control of NY authorities.