Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting NATO surplus ammunition

[Flying_gage]

Have been scrounging and I think rather successfully. As I noted in an earlier thread, I picked up an M1A Socom. The timing couldn't have been worse in terms of the political climate as I like to have at least a 1000rds on hand for any given caliber that I own. . 308 was outside of what I owned, therefore my ear has been to the ground, my nose twitching in the air for faint whiff's and eavesdropping on conversations at local places for any available ammo. What I have found is that within an 80 mile radius of Chicago, there is no . 223 ammo and . 308 is almost gone.



So far this what I have found:



First came 5 boxes of white box winchester in 7. 62 at a discount at Farm and Fleet. It was $89 and that stuff shoots well out of my little rifle. Talking sub moa at 100yds. I will be keeping this around as my accuracy ammo...



Then it was on to gunbroker, where I found an Illinois seller close buy. Got 300 rounds of Nigerian 7. 62 for $150. Pretty tickled at that in this climate. Haven't had a chance to shoot this yet, but have read reports that it was made on german machinery and shoots average to good.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this if anyone has shot it!



Next came a smattering of . 308 that I got a box at a time. This stuff is the potent stuff with the exotic tips or listed as self defense. All around 180grs. More for a bolt gun and not sure I will be putting much through the M1A's gas system as I hear it can be a little hard on it. Looking mostly to use this on trade here and there with bolt gun guys.

Curious as to any thoughts on this type of ammo and any ill effects people have noticed in the M1A platform



Finally yesterday, was at my local store which is Rigler's in Rock Falls, Il. There on the table they two separate batches of 20rd NATO ammo for $10. Picked up another 300rds. First batch was in boxes that are labeled as Venezuelan Surplus and the second, after a little research, was South African. Was hoping to get some of this through the barrel this morning prior to the wife going to work, but that is not looking as a possibility.

Would like any thoughts on these two. South African is a pretty well known quantity and sounds as though it shoots average to good. The venny stuff on the other hand sounds a little more problematic; hot loads, tarry fouling and misfires



Keeping track, I have $543 into 900rds so far. Not great I know, yet not horrible. I think in the end, I might have been better served to pony up to the table and buy a 1000 rounds on gunbroker and would have had the consistency of one manufacturer, thereby getting a better understanding of my M1A's shooting characteristics. Yet, I like challenges and will enjoy learning as I go with the Nato stuff.



In the end, this will be handloaded stuff. Couldn't ask for better parent cases it seems when it comes to the nato stuff. In fact, the Venezuelan stuff does seem to be a favorite for reloading as there is very little stretch encountered.



I have to diverge here and talk a bit about my gunshop that gets my business:



https://plus.google.com/105858628077834082762/about?gl=us&hl=en here is their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Riglers-Shooting-Fishing-Sports-Supply/163215380363323



Ken is the owner and has been in business for 30 plus years in the same location. I have purchased multiple guns through him and he has always been a great guy. Prices are reasonable, yet not Bud's or Cheaper prices. Yet being a little old fashion, I like point of service contact. He has not raised prices in this climate like others have; keeps it at list. If you are local to the area or within a reasonable drive, keep him in mind!



Alright, I am done now, I think. Waiting anxiously for your thoughts on the surplus ammo and any things to watch out for.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

In times like this if your ammo stash is low, about all you can do is accept what you can find and hope for the best. I learned my lesson during the Clinton era and Obama helped remind me.

When ammo became plentiful again, I made a sizable investment and I'm glad I did :-laf

 

[The patriot]

Not a lot of spare ammo out there right now.
http://ammoseek.com/

 

[Mark31]

I am of the opinion that the time is already here when one should not talk about what firearms or ammunition or anything related that one has or would like to have. Mark

 

[BIGNASTY]

I am of the opinion that the time is already here when one should not talk about what firearms or ammunition or anything related that one has or would like to have. Mark

,,,,,,,,,

 

[Dl5treez]

If you're finding 7. 62x51 and 5. 56x45 for less than 90 cents/rd right now, consider yourself lucky.

People are paying a buck a round for Wolf steel case and Silver Bear... .

NATO spec and U. S. spec are a bit different--S. African is quite good, Venny and Nigerian is hit n miss, but more hit than miss. Some light primer strikes depending on the weapon, and accuracy isn't match grade but they'll kill a paper target, milk jug, or evil gremlin.

Other than watching out for Berdan primers and corrosive primer/powder charges, right now anything NATO surplus is worth buying.

Heck even Mosin food from the 40's with all it's problems is still worth buying.

 

[Flying_gage]

Mark I'll bite... .

I presume that you are referencing the fact that it could be lost either to the government or nefarious individuals? To the prior, all it will take is for the BATF to secure the form 4473's that are compiled nationwide. That would take a long time and the data entry would take an even longer time! That and the fact that the amount of information that is compiled each and every day through the internet is mind boggling. We are talking the need for some serious computer horsepower, (Nation state) to do a data mining program.

As to the former, that is part of the reason that I pay $35 a month here. It is a small community of people here who do not fill the bill or those who are looking to rip folks off. Especially since it then is hidden within a sub category, (Are my toys listed outside of this community you ask, heck no! )

If I am too far askew let me know. These are just my thoughts and feelings.

Dl5treez that is kind of what I was thinking too on the price point. Are you talking about the 7. 62x54 stuff? The prices for that make a compelling argument for a tune up m44. At least it would be more trigger time at a cheaper cost...

 

[Dl5treez]

Dl5treez that is kind of what I was thinking too on the price point. Are you talking about the 7. 62x54 stuff? The prices for that make a compelling argument for a tune up m44. At least it would be more trigger time at a cheaper cost...

If you were talking about a M1 Garand I'd be saying "whoah whoah whoah no no no" when it came to the unknowns, but the M1A in 7. 62x51/308 is pretty comfortable with all of the milsurp loads.

Right now is about the worst time to be a Mosin buyer... . prices have doubled plus in the last month. Still, that's only about $250 for a solid, beautiful rifle, that will eat anything selling for $180/880 rounds. Some of the Russian milsurp stuff is like shooting old batteries but they clean up rather well, since I'm pretty sure they were built with it in mind that the Red Army would be using all sorts of unfriendly chemicals for cleaning to begin with.

 

[Flying_gage]

DL,

As the parent system for my M1A, I wonder about the actual loading of some of these cartridges though. Stories abound about the privi stuff that is super hot and even bends op rods on the M1A. Thoughts on this?

Feel like an *** for passing up a nice m44 shorty a couple years back for the ridiculous sum of $150... . Even at $250 they are still great rifles. My only issue with them is the harmonics associated with that darn spike. I like consistency... Might have too get one of them here soon as you can't beat the ammo prices!

 

[AMink]

Speaking of Moisins with surplus ammo... this is my buddy's carbine length M44 MN. Not enough barrel...

 

[Dl5treez]

Yes sir, that's a shorty barrel Russian flamethrower... . one cool thing, if you run out of ammo you can burn half the rifle to keep warm and she'll still light off when supplies arrive.

 

[Dl5treez]

50,000cup is about the max threshold I suppose... there's a lot of "milsurp" x51 or 308 that isn't actually loaded to NATO/U. S. Milspec standards... so yeah, operating rods can be consumable depending on the ammo.

DL,

As the parent system for my M1A, I wonder about the actual loading of some of these cartridges though. Stories abound about the privi stuff that is super hot and even bends op rods on the M1A. Thoughts on this?

Feel like an *** for passing up a nice m44 shorty a couple years back for the ridiculous sum of $150... . Even at $250 they are still great rifles. My only issue with them is the harmonics associated with that darn spike. I like consistency... Might have too get one of them here soon as you can't beat the ammo prices!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Op rods can be saved, and you can save a lot of battery issues (bolt lug cracks, reciever cracking, bent op rods, even inaccuracy problems) by using an adjustable gas block, which can vent off excessive gas for heavy loads..... I'd think it's not really necessary unless you go to the 168+ bullet loadings. Any 150-160gr bullets should be fine unless WAYY to hot, in which case, I wouldn't shoot them in my nice SOCOM. And for the record, NATO loadings are spec'd at 50,000psi chamber pressure. . 308Win ammo is rated 62,000psi chamber pressure(per SAAMI), which typically corresponds to about 52,000 CUP (copper units of pressure) Don't get confused as to which rating your reading, as you can see it can be a bit rough on your and your rifle.



I've heard some of the stories of the Privi Partisan ammo being way too hot, but I've not heard of it bending op rods on M1As... . Perhaps I'm out of the loop. Typically, Privi and Tula are the best made non-american ammo out there. And I'm seeing the Wolf Gold line of ammo prove to be better than about half the American made products.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Arn't some of those round CROSSIVE? Never use military ammo in any of MY guns.

 

[Tractorat]

Arn't some of those round CROSSIVE? Never use military ammo in any of MY guns.

If you mean "corrosive" (did I spell it right ?), thats what I used to hear decades ago. Maybe the nato ammo has changed. But I wouldnt be surprised if any surplus nato rounds you can buy now arent the same stuff we used to buy at the surplus store (that is until someone told me it was corrosive)

 

[BIGNASTY]

T rat whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ever :-laf CORROSOI0ONNBIENVE EAT'S STUFF UP

 

[Tractorat]

ha ha ha

 

[HHhuntitall]

After about '54, very little ammo is corrosive. No NATO spec ammo is corrosive, that was a requirement when they started the NATO program. Mostly, the only corrosive ammo out there is Russian made from the early 60's. Almost all the Green Steel "Sardine Can" ammo for the 7. 62x54R is corrosive, just due to it's age.

 

[The patriot]

If it has the NATO circle and cross, it's NOT corrosive.

If it dont, could be anything.

 

[Flying_gage]

Just going back and looking at threads and posting follow up.

Have my 1000 round minimum for the m1a now. It is mix of stuff. Thankfully I have enough boxer primed stuff to reload my own and get consistent/accurate groups. All of the surplus stuff that I have purchased was made after 1981. I am not too concerned about it being corrosive, yet anything is possible. I clean the snot out of it right away to try and mitigate any unforeseen issues.

On a side note though, my range is on the far side of my property. Wife usually cannot hear me out there if I am playing with pistols. Even running through the commercial stuff through the m1a she heard a mild thud and could count my shot rate. When I tried out various batched of the surplus stuff though, she said it was exponentially louder; as if I was shooting right next to the house

Have to give kudos's to the brake on the little socom though. Even with the hotter loads on some of the surplus stuff, the muzzle rise is darn close to negligible! Pretty darn cool!